The One Question that has to be answered is.......

[DJlaysitup]

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...by Atlanta Hawks standards he's Methuselah...

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...LOL

[exodus]

I said he would have a height advantage most nights.

You said no he wouldn't.

I gave you proof that he would have a height advantage.

Now you say Marvins height advantage doesn't matter, it's jumping ability that is important.

make up your mind.

[Packfill]

Give me a break, you know height advantage means nothing if it doesn't lead to a competitive advantage. My point was that Marvin would not have a competitive advantage.

[exodus]

Look i don't like the pick either but it is time to get over it. Marvin is here. he isn't going anywhere.

Right now he has no post game at all that I can see. All I said was that he could be very effective if he develops one because of his height for the position.

If that offends you then you have issues.

[Wurider05]

You said a mouth full there. Smith has got some bad hands, really bad. I mean garnett and webber became good PF's without much of an inside game scoring wise but they are around to get the rebounds though. I think Marvin will be a inside and outside player which can make up for any deficiences that Josh Smith may have. I am kind of curious as to how those two would play together. I have noticed that they are just about never in the game at the same time.

[Packfill]

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Look i don't like the pick either but it is time to get over it. Marvin is here. he isn't going anywhere.

Right now he has no post game at all that I can see. All I said was that he could be very effective if he develops one because of his height for the position.

If that offends you then you have issues.

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And all I said was that his height does not give him a competitive advantage in the post as a small forward.

If that offends you then you have issues.

[exodus]

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And all I said was that his height does not give him a competitive advantage in the post as a small forward.

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Wrong. This is what you said:

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Will he have height advantage? Aren't most 3's in the 6'7"+ range? Marvin is 6'8"ish.

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Maybe you should re-read your own posts.

[Packfill]

Don't be a moron. I first asked whether he had a height advantage - which if he does it is only negligible, particularly when you consider the quality of athletes he will face night-in-night out. The net result of which is that he does not have a competitive advantage because of his height.

That does not mean he won't become a great player, it just means his height, which is certaintly not outside the normal range for a small forward, and is certaintly is not a disadvantage for him, does not give him an "advantage" in the post. If he were 6'11", sure, that would be an advantage, but 6'8"ish, not so much.

[exodus]

You asked if he had a height advantage and I said yes he does. As an example Josh Smith and Marvin are both 6'7" in socks but Marvins reach is two inches higher. And the majority of small forwards are listed at 6'7" which means they are probably about 6'5" like Childress, who is 6'5.25" in socks.

if you want to bash Marvins game or lack of production then fine but your height argument is weak.

[Packfill]

Are we talking height or reach now? Because I thought you were talking height?

[AHF]

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Are we talking height or reach now? Because I thought you were talking height?

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He mentioned both earlier in this thread.

[exodus]

For NBA purposes they consider their reach to be their effective height.

For example Sean May measured the same height as Marvin but his reach is 3" shorter so he loses points with the scouts.

Prince on the other hand has very long arms (I don't know his reach) so he is considered taller.

Ike Diogu is actually a half inch shorter than Marvin but has an inch longer reach, which is a big reason he went lottery.

Marvin is tall for his position and has long arms which will definitely give him and advantage should he ever develop any actual skills.

[Diesel]

Buzzard, seems like you're more interested in changing the subject than committing to what was said. That being the case, what I said must have struck the damn... he's right nerve in you.

However, just for a point of fact...

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xa #2 Deron Williams will in your words be better than Jason Kidd and Chris Paul. So far, very wrong again.... but thats ok for you to do and be wrong but not anyone else...

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I said that Paul would be ROY and that in 3-4 yrs, Deron would be better than Kidd. So far, I'm still right...

Just do a search next time...

Look

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I think Marvin will be the second coming of Lamar Odom without the drugs...

He will be a very skilled player but not a player with the personality to carry a team. I just don't see the superstar mentality in Marvin.

I still believe that Deron will be as good if not better than Kidd, especially in UTAH. IN Utah, Deron will be put in the same system that Stockton played in and the difference between Deron and Kidd is defense and FG%.

I still believe that Paul will be ROY and if he remains Durableenough he will show better than Howard and Okafor last year. I think Paul will be the first 18-20 ppg rookie that has played since Lebron.

Mark it down, take a picture remember it!

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On the day I said it... you didn't mark it down... You didn't take the picture. You didn't remember it...

On the same day I said:

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I think when you look around in 3 yrs, there will be 4 top PGs...

1. Deron

2. Paul

3. Telfair

4. Nelson.

Because of Deron's defense, I think he has a chance to surpass Kidd. Like Kidd, he can run an offense. Like Kidd, he can put the ball where he wants it to go. Like Kidd he has a very high BB IQ. Like Kidd, he's a winner.

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Or you can try this one.. the origin.. Your silly little poll...

Buzzard's silly poll.

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'm not going to go through your whole post and say this or that about it... I will just say these few things..

1. I think that when you talk about Bogut, Williams, Paul, D. Williams... One thing really stick out:

You know what Paul and Deron can do. They have been battle tested and they have shown their metal. They are the top 2 PGs in the draft and probably the best PGs that have been in the draft since Jason Kidd came out. That includes the class of 1999 and that includes a whole lot of others.

I think the problem is that Historically.. You always pick a big man over a PG.

However, sometimes you got to look at the whole story. We know little about how Bogut can play against pro-like talent. Don't quote me his stats unless you are ready to concede that he accumulated his stats against a lot of 6'7 and 6'8 Centers and many Centers who will never think about getting into the draft.

We know even less about Marvin Williams. IN my eyes... Marvin Williams' hype machine is about as big as Bogut's hype machine. In the biggest games, I have seen Williams disappear. IN the other games, I have seen him be athletic but seeing Williams is no different than seeing Hakim Warrick. People talk about his potential, but when you compare him to Paul/Deron Williams and say that he's going to be so much better, I really have to shake my head. On top of that.. I would say that whatever position Williams will play, Smoove is already playing it.

I just won't be so quick to pick these guys over:

Paul - The brightest talent to come out since James.

Williams - The best playmaker since J-Kidd. I honestly think Deron will probably be better than Kidd!!

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[Diesel]

Back in June, this is how I described it..

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I certainly think that Howard has more potential because he's a big man...

But right now... Paul is more talented.

Paul is a scorer, a floor leader, a good defensive player, fast, shows up in big games, and makes his teammate better. If you were to subtract Howard and replace him with Paul, i think Orlando gets more wins. Will that always be the case? I don't know. I'm a big Howard fan and I believe that Howard will be a monster in a few years... However, I can't really say what Paul will be. Like I have said from the beginning, my biggest question about Paul is his durability. Not weather or not he will be injured, but can he keep up his style of play for an 82 game season. The kid is Allen Iverson with a little less defense but definitely more floor Generalship.

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Williams will be BETTER than Kidd

Yes.

Deron Williams is the guy I would pick because he has it. He's not the flashy talent that Paul is because Paul can definitely score better. But Williams doesn't need to score. If you listen to what Rick Majerus says about WIlliams. He says that Williams is a guy who can pass and get the ball where he wants it to go. This has always been evident about Williams... But to hear it at this level is a testiment. When Kidd was at Cal, he was good, he was darn good, but he didn't do the things that DWill can do. For instance, WIlliams is a lock down defender. He doesn't need help defense. He ask to cover the other teams best Gaurd and he shuts them down. I wasn't that surprised by what he did to Salim Stoudamire. He really demoralized him by pressuring him all game. I was surprised how he stopped Francisco Garcia. Garcia is about 5 inches taller and maybe had a step on Williams, but Williams locked him up so tight that in the second half, his team had started to look for other options. And if I'm not mistaken, these two were the best % long range shooters in college (I may be wrong, but I think Salim was 52%)...

Kidd has always been a Wizard with the ball in the open court... But defensively, has Kidd on any level ever locked down the best offensive player. Like Kidd, Williams may struggle with his outside shooting, but the way this guy can run an offense, I think he will make those around him better...

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So Buzzard, now you have been reminded of the truth...

[Packfill]

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if you want to bash Marvins game or lack of production then fine but your height argument is weak.

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Saying Marvin does not have a competitive advantage because of his height is not bashing his game. Why is it a weak argument? He is basically the same size as his competitors, what is there to argue?

This is crazy.

[exodus]

You're right two or three inches makes no difference. I am sure all the GM's feel the same way.

[Popeye]

Just trade the damn guy

[Buzzard]

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That being the case, what I said must have struck the damn... he's right nerve in you.

I said that Paul would be ROY and that in 3-4 yrs, Deron would be better than Kidd. So far, I'm still right...

Just do a search next time...

Mark it down, take a picture remember it!

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1st off you struck my funny bone and still are....

2nd-You are right so far about the guy you would not have taken. Maybe that makes you half right or something...I honestly don't know where you are coming from with that one. Half right is like getting 10 out of 20 on a test. That gets you a F grade in all the schools I went to.

And last but not least, I did not have to take a picture, I remembered this...

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Deron Williams is the guy I would pick because he has it.

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