sad but true...

[Diesel]

We'll see. as the years go on... I will be your reminder... All of you who feel that Marvin was the right pick...

I will be your reminder.

[thesheedera]

Wow, 10 less points than Anthony Grundy.

[exodus]

That is 16 anti-Marvin posts so far in 2 days.

Just imagine how high that number would be if Marvin had been playing poorly lately.

[gsuteke]

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No No NO...

You cannot blame the NBA and BK for where Marvin was picked... They picked him yes, but at some point, Marvin has to live up to the hype... Too many built in excuses for Marvin when you say stuff like...

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well perhaps Marvin should have been a mid first rounder also but once again the NBA, and Billy Knight is to be blamed here bigtime for drinking the Koolaid, puts all their eggs in the 'potential' basket these days vs the 'this kid can win basketball games for me right now' basket.

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That's like going to the steak resturant of the highest reputation.. Ordering a steak that is supposed to be the best in town... Getting a steak that's overcooked and underseasoned and then blaming the customer because he spent $32.00 on the steak.

The customer was going on the reputation of the steak place.. best steak in town.

At some point, the resturant has to live up to the reputation in the steak that it serves.

When you pick a guy #2 overall.. Highest pick in franchise History... You can't turn around 7 months later and say... well, he's probably better suited as a midround pick... but it's the NBA's fault or it's BK's fault. It's BK's fault only to a point. Marvin has the repsonsibility to live up to the hype.

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i didn't pick him.

and thanks for proving my point with your steakhouse analogy. if that particular steakhouse has the reputation for being the best in town and that's what happens then the product (in this case the steakhouse market vs the NBA) is obviously watered down and overrated in general.

it's the NBA and the sh!tty product they are trying to sell to us. if Billy Knight didn't pick Marvin there would have been GMs lining up right behind him to do so.

how many rookies are contributing significantly this year? a dozen? the product sucks. thanks for the analogy Diesel.

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address the issue at hand.

[chillzatl]

lay in the weeds like a coward and pick your spots. You'll take cheap shots at him when he plays bad and you'll keep your mouth shut when he plays well. That's what you've done all season and typically what you've done in similar situations over the years.

The fact that you expect a 19yo who was picked #2 to be a difference maker in his rookie season is laughable. You base these expectations on nothing more than him being the #2 pick. Oddly enough you've never bashed other rookies for similar production in their rookie seasons, despite where they were picked. Hell you even go out of your way to make excuses for guys that you like, some of which are former #2 picks themselves. Sometimes several years into their careers.

Be a man and admit that you have a personal dislike for the kid that goes beyond anything basketball related. BE A MAN

[chillzatl]

had it not been for other people mentioning Marvin in their posts, giving him an angle to stealth-hate.

[Diesel]

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if that particular steakhouse has the reputation for being the best in town and that's what happens then the product (in this case the steakhouse market vs the NBA) is obviously watered down and overrated in general.

it's the NBA and the sh!tty product they are trying to sell to us.

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The Hawks are the consumer.

Marvin is the steak.

The Steakhouse would be the draft...

How do you blame the consumer for what the steakhouse gives...

There were better cuts of steak that the steakhouse could have supplied but we choose the prime rib.

There was a perfectly good NY strip (Paul) and an T-bone (Deron) still on the menu.

We choose the Prime Rib which got a lot of reputation but when it came to our plate... was not a good choice. We could have had a ribeye for much less.

[Diesel]

I expect a number 2 pick overall to show signs of a difference maker.

If Marvin is a 19 year old project then we should not have picked him #2. You don't pick a project #2 overall.

[chillzatl]

There were cuts of meat that YOU thought were better, nothing more. The Hawks wanted the prime rib. The steakhouse didn't force the prime rib on the Hawks. If the Hawks hadn't picked the prime rib. The next customer in the door would have.

Just because you don't eat prime rib doesn't make it inferior. That's what you don't understand in this instance and in every other where what YOU want is different than what others want. You only see what YOU want and you lack the ability or willingness to try and see things from someone elses perspective.

[gsuteke]

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I expect a number 2 pick overall to show signs of a difference maker.

If Marvin is a 19 year old project then we should not have picked him #2. You don't pick a project #2 overall.

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you don't get it.

[chillzatl]

"you don't pick a project #2".

That's the biggest bunch of nonsense to come off your fingers in years. Over the last 10 yeras, how many projects have gone in the top 3? A LOT. Many of whom you've defened and still defend to this day. Stop playing stupid just because you don't like the kid.

BE A MAN

[Diesel]

BTW..

You know i have never been a coward and have never been afraid to tell you what I think... and name one occassion where I have done any of the things you have mentioned. Name one Hawk player who I didn't applaud for doing something good? Even Theo... When Theo had good games, I acknowledged them...even though I didn't like Theo. I even talked about building around Theo.. and I didn't like Theo...

Chillz we go back too far for you to just make up stuff that's not in my character.

Check it out..

[gsuteke]

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Damn, how many of those games have we won??

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13 MinnesotaT-wolves 26 56 -15 38.0 .317

we can end this discussion now or I can keep digging up stuff to show you are wrong Diesel. it's your choice.

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you finish the prior season poorly. you wind up with the #1 pick. you pick a quote "prep to pro" player. what happens? you still have a poor record the following year.

if the Hawks were 1 game over .500 right now would we be discussing Marvin Williams? absolutely not.

the product sucks, the league is watered down.

[gsuteke]

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No No NO...

You cannot blame the NBA and BK for where Marvin was picked... They picked him yes, but at some point, Marvin has to live up to the hype... Too many built in excuses for Marvin when you say stuff like...

Quote:

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well perhaps Marvin should have been a mid first rounder also but once again the NBA, and Billy Knight is to be blamed here bigtime for drinking the Koolaid, puts all their eggs in the 'potential' basket these days vs the 'this kid can win basketball games for me right now' basket.

---

That's like going to the steak resturant of the highest reputation.. Ordering a steak that is supposed to be the best in town... Getting a steak that's overcooked and underseasoned and then blaming the customer because he spent $32.00 on the steak.

The customer was going on the reputation of the steak place.. best steak in town.

At some point, the resturant has to live up to the reputation in the steak that it serves.

When you pick a guy #2 overall.. Highest pick in franchise History... You can't turn around 7 months later and say... well, he's probably better suited as a midround pick... but it's the NBA's fault or it's BK's fault. It's BK's fault only to a point. Marvin has the repsonsibility to live up to the hype.

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i didn't pick him.

and thanks for proving my point with your steakhouse analogy. if that particular steakhouse has the reputation for being the best in town and that's what happens then the product (in this case the steakhouse market vs the NBA) is obviously watered down and overrated in general.

it's the NBA and the sh!tty product they are trying to sell to us. if Billy Knight didn't pick Marvin there would have been GMs lining up right behind him to do so.

how many rookies are contributing significantly this year? a dozen? the product sucks. thanks for the analogy Diesel.

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answer the last question. stop picking and choosing what you address. you are notorious for that crap.

[Diesel]

I didn't say that you CANT draft a project number 2. I say you don't. Maybe I should have said You shouldn't... However, the point still remains.. what have we learned from History...

You shouldn't draft a project with the second pick overall when there are sure things still on the board.

Marvin just might prove this over again.

Notice.. This doesn't mean that Marvin won't become serviceable.. Hell, we could get Serviceable from Donta. This means that the parade just might go by and History will record that with our holes at PG and C, maybe the best thing was to take a PG instead of gambling on a project!

You're right teke.. I don't get it.

[chillzatl]

Typically you are the "good fan" and you go out of your way to find positives in the Hawks players even when they don't deserve much of it. Though, in this case, the exact opposite is true. You go out of your way to drum up reasons why Marvin is, as a 19yo rookie, already a complete and utter failure.

You don't typically bash any player for any team with the level of dislike that you place on Marvin. But the tactics are the same, see also, kobe Bryant. When kobe plays well and is helping his team win, you keep your mouth shut. When he's playing bad and his team is losing, you'll be the first to post about how "kobe can't win without Shaq".

Same M.O.

[Diesel]

First off, I haven't called Marvin an utter failure.

I believe he will have a mediocre career... sorta like Tim Thomas. at best Corey Maggette.

I say and have said continually that Marvin was:

1. Not the right pick.

2. Will probably not live up to being picked 2nd.

That's a long ways away from utter failure.

It's the Marvin fans here who expect ME to throw Marvin a parade for scoring 15 ppg.

That's not parade worthy.

In fact, Chillz and Smoove score 15 ppg, does Diesel Click 1 key in recognition of that? NO.

Now when Marvin starts making bigger contributions than garbage points and putbacks and hitting the wide open jumper, I will give him credit. But right now, there's absolutely no need to load up the float..

[chillzatl]

They were only sure things in your mind. I would have liked to have Chris Paul. But that doesn't blind me from seeing how good Marvin can be. He has the talent and potential to be far far better than servicable. While I know you recognize his talent, you refuse to acknowledge it because of your personal dislike for him. It's equally disturbing that at this point you can't fathom how Chris Paul might not fit what we're building here either.

Comparing him to Donta is a joke and you should be ashamed of doing so.

[chillzatl]

in this case, your actions were words also. But it fits..

You've bashed him at every turn. You've made it clear that in your mind, he is and will be an utter failure. You know good and well that him being Tim Thomas makes him an utter failure.

And yes, in their rookies seasons I'm pretty sure you acknowledged when both of the Josh's had good games. of which practically every one was "garbage time". But that didn't stop you from acnowledging the improvement everyone saw from seasons beginning to seasons end. There's a difference in acknowledging when your rookies have good games and are improving and actually throwing a parade. Nobody here is throwing a parade for 15ppg and you know that.

The only reason anyone would seem as such would be in response to your continued hating on everything he does, big or small.

[exodus]

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It's the Marvin fans here who expect ME to throw Marvin a parade for scoring 15 ppg.

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How about just taking a break from the constant stream of hate? You have made 21 posts criticizing Marvin since yesterday.