Is BK's job on the line?

[thesheedera]

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His rep has come down because he hasn't been that successful with memphis, but at the time, he was arguably the highest rated GM of all time.

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I'm not even sure there was any question at all whether or not he was the best at that point.

[RAHMOR]

I don't think BK's job is on the line. BK has gotten young talent and relieved the hawks of high salaries. This seemed to be a priority to the owners based on their lack of complaints about our record and BK has gotten that accomplished. I think the owners are now switching to a let's get some wins for this team mentality and probably starting next season they will expect the BK created team to produce.

As for Mike Woodson I believe he is on the hot seat, but I think if the Hawks finish strong he may survive until next season, if the Hawks finish weak I expect him to be gone during the offseason. If he does make it until next season the team will have to start out strong. If we start out anything like 2-16 next year he will be gone. It is already established that JJ is the man and unless we bring in a JO or Garnett that should not change. That alone should prevent us from the type of start we had this season when everyone was just trying to figure out their roles.

[Diesel]

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Babcock would have been termianted in Atlanta at that time if we could have gotten West.

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Babcock Offered to Resign to Make Room For West

Jeffrey Denberg/Atlanta Journal-Constitution - 7th May, 2002 5:39 AM

When Jerry West left Los Angeles to run the Memphis Grizzlies , the Hawks were heartbroken.

"You have no idea how hard we worked to get Jerry to come with us," Hawks president Stan Kasten said. "We did everything possible, but that was his decision."

Hawks vice president and general manager Pete Babcock said he told Kasten he would resign if that would make a difference in West's decision.

"I've been here 12 years, and I hope I will retire here," Babcock said Monday, "but I told Stan [and West] if that's what it would take, I would step aside. I didn't think it would come to that, but I did not want to be the reason a deal could not be worked out."

Babcock said he was given assurance he remains a valued member of the organization.

Such is not the case in Memphis where general manager Billy Knight was fired to open the way for West, and president

d*ck

Versace was demoted to general manger. In addition, team owner Michael Heisley said Versace's current position is not secure.

"Everyone will work at Jerry's will. If Jerry doesn't think

d*ck

is working out as the GM, then

d*ck

won't be here," he said.

West, who has maintained friendly relations for years with Babcock and Kasten, did not know Heisley when the process started. West was making $3 million a year when he resigned as the Lakers' executive vice president, and it is unlikely the Hawks offered less than that in their bid to sign him.

West could not be reached for comment on Monday. But his agent, Lon Rosen, said eight teams courted West.

"It was a very interesting process," said Rosen, who would not provide the list of teams. "What he did, as teams would call, we would research it. He did the same thing you'd do if you were going to hire somebody, but he did it the other way."

The Grizzlies signed West for a reported $5 million a year on the eve of their season ticket campaign. Babcock said the public relations value of having West would have been enormous.

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[chillzatl]

That is his job and I see no reason to think that he's not working to fulfill it. We have talent and the team has progressed. Once we add another ball handler and another big or two, I think we'll be right where we need to be to make that first big step towards success.

He's only made one move that I strongly disagree with. But I can see the logic he might have had in doing it. So I withhold judgement on that one for a later date.

[Diesel]

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That is his job and I see no reason to think that he's not working to fulfill it.

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First, I'm glad that we agree on the role of the GM. Therefore, our misunderstanding is right here in your statement, the lack of fulfilling his job... i.e. getting players that fulfill his vision.

My point:

Last year.

We entered the offseason in need of a PG and a C.

We had:

JC - BK called him our SG.

JS - Seemingly our Sf of the future.

Al - Would be Pf.

We also had Diaw & Donta who were swingmen.

IN the draft, we picked up Marvin who is a Sf. Not a Pf. A Sf. Another swingman.

We passed over 2 really good PGs to take Marvin.

We picked Up Salim a SG. Not a bad pick because we were in need of a BU SG anyway.

Then in Free agency.

We picked up JJ, Edwards, Estaban, and Zaza.. A SG and a C.

BK tried to pass JJ off as a PG, but anybody who has watched Phoenix for the pass 3 yrs know that JJ is not a PG. For JJ it was about Money, for BK, I don't know.. I have to believe that it was about justifying picking up another 2.

So coming out of the offseason all we had was another SG, another Sf, and a slew of 2nd teir big men. AND no PG.

In essence, our need was still PG and C.

Now, as expected, Marvin shows no signs of being head and shoulders better than Chillz or Smoove at the Pf position.

So you have to question...

Is it working for us?

did we get what we needed?

What was the purpose of picking Marvin in the first place?

And What about PG?

BK showed limited planning ability because if he had planned sufficiently, he would know that Gay is coming out this year... Swingmen are always a dime a dozen. However, good PGs and Good Cs are hard to come by. None of the PGs in this draft will approach Williams and Paul?

Still, we have to wait and see what this offseason will bring.

[Johnnybravo4]

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That is his job and I see no reason to think that he's not working to fulfill it.

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First, I'm glad that we agree on the role of the GM. Therefore, our misunderstanding is right here in your statement, the lack of fulfilling his job... i.e. getting players that fulfill his vision.

My point:

Last year.

We entered the offseason in need of a PG and a C.

We had:

JC - BK called him our SG.

JS - Seemingly our Sf of the future.

Al - Would be Pf.

We also had Diaw & Donta who were swingmen.

IN the draft, we picked up Marvin who is a Sf. Not a Pf. A Sf. Another swingman.

We passed over 2 really good PGs to take Marvin.

We picked Up Salim a SG. Not a bad pick because we were in need of a BU SG anyway.

Then in Free agency.

We picked up JJ, Edwards, Estaban, and Zaza.. A SG and a C.

BK tried to pass JJ off as a PG, but anybody who has watched Phoenix for the pass 3 yrs know that JJ is not a PG. For JJ it was about Money, for BK, I don't know.. I have to believe that it was about justifying picking up another 2.

So coming out of the offseason all we had was another SG, another Sf, and a slew of 2nd teir big men. AND no PG.

In essence, our need was still PG and C.

Now, as expected, Marvin shows no signs of being head and shoulders better than Chillz or Smoove at the Pf position.

So you have to question...

Is it working for us?

did we get what we needed?

What was the purpose of picking Marvin in the first place?

And What about PG?

BK showed limited planning ability because if he had planned sufficiently, he would know that Gay is coming out this year... Swingmen are always a dime a dozen. However, good PGs and Good Cs are hard to come by. None of the PGs in this draft will approach Williams and Paul?

Still, we have to wait and see what this offseason will bring.

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Last year.

We entered the offseason in need of a PG and a C

This is only if you buy into the premise that we had to finish rebuilding this year. I have no problem getting Marvin this year if we address needs this year..because we weren't going to win a championship this year anyway. And no one saw Paul or Deron Williams for that matter saviors anyway. And I still don't think they are. Witness the demise of the Hornets right now.

[chillzatl]

you don't what his vision is and never have. You have your ideals about what he's trying to do. But the fact is, you don't know. I would say that only he and the owners know what his long term goals are.

I wouldn't even go as far as to say that his initial plan was any more involved than getting some talent on this team and then sorting it out. Assuming that every GM immediately has it mapped out from start to finish the moment they get the job is presumptuous. In fact I would say it's downright foolish to think that. Especially when you have a team with nothing, which is what he started with.

I think the problem is more you can't figure out what his plan is than anything to do with him not doing it right. You can't fathom why he would pick Marvin over Paul, especially when we had big needs for a PG. There weren't any real Centers to be had. Signing zaza was a coup. He has arguably been the sleeper hit of the year.

I don't agree with passing on Paul with the 2nd pick. Though every other team would have passed on him too. Marvin would have gone #2 regardless of who has the pick. But that doesn't make picking Marvin bad. It's foolish to assume how far either of the josh's will go and Marvin was the consensus #1 or #2 everywhere. The only reason that changed when talking about us was because of need.

But if you go by what many said and say about Paul (not a good shooter or defender) then he doesn't really fit what makes sense here or what some see BK's vision as being. Realistically we need another big guard who can handle and set guys up. But not a full on PG. Because that takes the ball out of JJ's hands too much. Without the ball in his hands Chris Pauls value drops significantly. So why spend the pick on something you don't think you need as much (a full time ball handler)? So you get talent and let it improve and use it when you need it. Talent always has considerable value in the NBA.

[AHF]

I am happy we didn't bank on getting Gay this offseason. If anyone questions Marvin's attitude and killer instinct then Gay really has to drive you crazy.

We absolutely must fill our need at PG or C or both (preferably) this offseason.

[Yeti]

"Realistically we need another big guard who can handle and set guys up. But not a full on PG."

Sounds like we draft Brandon Roy then - he's 6'6". JJ and Roy would be hard to defend.

[Plainview1981]

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While I haven't agreed with some things that BK has done I will say that the team has improved. We could all set back behind our computers, look back and say this or that should have been done. That is the easy way out. If we were in BK's shoes who knows what our moves would have been. That is why he is a GM and we are just fans.

I think a couple more years in the job before the question of him being let go comes up.

We need a BIG inside presence and I really like Tyrus Thomas of LSU if he comes out. Sheldon Williams woould not be bad either. I am wavering on Aldridge at this point.

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The team has lost 9 out of 10 games and is probably going to lose to the Bobcats. Is the team really that much improved? It doesn't look that way. If it wasn't for the Knicks and the bloated contracts the Hawks would be the worst team in the league BY FAR.

[Plainview1981]

11 losses in 12 games. Get rid of Billy Knight and Mike Woodson both and get some REAL talent on the team.

[DrReality]

I think Woody is doing his job with what he has and he has helped a young team grow. However, I don't think he can take them to the next level. Don't see the ability or maturity in him to take the team beyond this young stage. Better to make a change sooner than later.

Don't see BK getting moved on this year. He's in the middle of showing what he can do. Jury is still out?

[Plainview1981]

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I think Woody is doing his job with what he has and he has helped a young team grow. However, I don't think he can take them to the next level. Don't see the ability or maturity in him to take the team beyond this young stage. Better to make a change sooner than later.

Don't see BK getting moved on this year. He's in the middle of showing what he can do. Jury is still out?

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What has Woodson done? The Hawks are playing the worst defense they have in probably decades..... Yes, Smoove and Childress have put up stats. But every team has guys that put up stats.

The TEAM has failed to truly improve this year. Yes, they started off the year with a few more wins than last year. But this 10 out of 11 negates ALL of it.

Why should anybody believe that a team playing this poorly would be better next year? The players and coaching staff blew what appeared to be a season of improvement before the allstar break. They blew it big time.

[Weez]

gee, there's a solution to the problem and the surest way to cement adding more talent to this team...yeah...

[Buzzard]

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i.e. getting players that fulfill his vision.

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Go find me a quote of BK's vison or are you just ASSuming you know what it is ....and if you do find it and it reads tall, long, and athletic players, what part of 6'9" tall, athletic Marvin Williams over 6'0' short, skinny ass Chris Paul or 6'3" slow ass Deron Williams does not fit into the above mentioned vision?

And how in the world would someone like Chris Paul ever fit? I mean hell, he is not going to grow six inches and add forty pounds...I don't care what kind of roids he takes.

And Deron Williams...give me a break. He cannot run as fast as Kidd can walk. So athletic and quick aint the word for Deron. Only thing he has going for him is size, does not even belong in the same league as Kidd when it comes to flat out pure quickness.

BK drafted the best player available in the whole draft period and honestly I think that was and is his vision for every draft.

A player like Marvin or Smoove drops in your lap, you are a flat out idiot if you do not take him. Like someone said earlier, there is always a market for talent. And there is no such thing as to much either, only not enough.

[Diesel]

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K drafted the best player available in the whole draft period and honestly I think that was and is his vision for every draft.

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In fact, if that's what he's doing then he will never build a team. It's stupid to go into the draft every year and say, i will get the best player available without regard to what I already have.

This is why Chris Paul ROY and should be allstar is in N.O. and not in Atlanta. Because BK went with a player with no real track record against competition, just a body type to fall in love with.

Think about it.

Marvin supposedly had a bad workout for Milwaukee and his workout for Atlanta wasn't much better... He didn't do anything great for his college team except come off the bench... Meaning to say, unlike others in the draft, Marvin wasn't the load barrer for that UNC team.

So what was the need to pick him..

1 thing.

Body type.

BK can't continue to draft with the body type being the only focus...

That's not vision.. It's stupid.