Are we going to be able to start Marvin and Josh??

[DavidSomerset]

I would really like to see these two guys on the court at the same time, but I'm not sure it would be the smartest thing for us to do defensively.

In my opinion (I could very easily be wrong), Smoove cannot cover most of the PF's in this league man to man.

Add in Zaza at center, and that is a VERY soft defensive frontcourt.

I hope we figured out some way to get BOTH of these guys a ton of playing time.

Maybe Smoove can beef up about 20 more pounds...that would be nice!

[DJlaysitup]

I think they'll be on the floor together a good bit - depending on the situation. But as has been pointed out on many other posts - Zaza is not the type of center to make that sort of thing work. If we still had Deke?

My guess is the starting frontcourt will be c-Zaza, pf-Shelden or Lo, sf-JS or MW. But once the game gets going and there are some fouls and matchup changes there will be many different combinations. Hopefully Speedy can mesh with them all early on.

[DavidSomerset]

I just think that esp. with Zaza as the Center (as you mentioned), its going to be VERY difficult to put these two guys on the court at the same time.

Our interior D would be no better (and maybe even worse) than last year with Al at PF.

[macdaddy]

I really think the starting lineup is less important for this team than ever. Where it seems like we'd have trouble with Marvin, Smoove and ZaZa defensively you also have to think about the other end. Can those guys be stopped easily by the other team's PF and C.

My point is if our lineup can abuse them offensively and just play decent defense the other team will be forced to play a smaller quicker lineup to match up with us.

[Diesel]

The lineup that you bring up, allowed Bogut to have his season high last year.

Your thinking is correct, the Landlord will have to play at the 4 (start at the 4) if he proves to be better defensively than Marvin or Smoove. Period.

[DavidSomerset]

To a certain extent (and I hope you are completely right!!)...but I don't think either of Josh or Marvin's offensive game is refined enough to strike that much fear into opposing teams.

Our achilles heel was interior defense last year, and if we get too many minutes with these two on the court at the same time, I fear that will still be our biggest weakness.

Hopefully BOTH of them will be much improved on the defensive end this year.

[DJlaysitup]

As far as other teams dealing with our smaller lineups quickness, I'd say it could go either way - we'll just have to wait and see. Realistically, teams aren't going to have to change their lineup to deal with Zaza's quickness. Smoove could be a different story - opposing PFs will likely have to back off of him and hope he can't consistently hit the jumper or finish around the rim if he penetrates. Marvin won't necessarily have much of a quickness advantage over most opposing SFs, but he may be able to overpower them if what we saw in the summer league transfers to the regular season.

Were I an opposing coach against the Zaza/JS/MW front line, I would go with the strategy of packing it in and forcing the Hawks to beat my team from the perimeter - then when on offense - take it to the hole as much as possible and test the Hawks' interior strength.

Of course it all depends on which opponent and which matchups we're talking about.

[gutz]

Well from what I've been hearing Josh Smith has beefed up considerably this offseason and looks like a beast. He is up to like 245lb's and added a lot of much needed muscle. Sorry guys but if Kenyon Martin can dominate at PF at the same height and weight as Jsmoove when healthy then Smoove will be our PF and Marvin at SF.

[gsuteke]

i think the Hawks are going to an uptempo style of ball this season now that they have a point.

you'll see alot more running out of this team. Marvin could draw fouls as a rookie. this year he should double his FT attempts.

JJ is our only player that is a questionable finisher attacking the basket. hopefully with him playing off the ball he'll be able to camp out on that line and drain 40% of 3s, many coming off the break with Smoove and Shellhead's ugly butt crashing the offensive boards.

this year we will see if Woodson can coach or not.

[Blunt91]

Gutzy the problem is Josh doesn't seem to use that 245lb frame. Last year letting guys like Melvin Ely back him down and get position was unexcusable. Josh didn't even try to put his body up against the man to keep him from backing him down. He tried to rely on his "Hops", in that he thought he would be able to block the shot when Ely went up. Ely shielded him away from the ball with his left shoulder to float home the jump hook. I don't think it is Smith's size(He has always been a little beefy), someone just needs to work with him on his post defense(offense to for that matter.)

[exodus]

I think Marvin and Josh will see a lot of court time together but i think it is a safe bet that Shelden will start at the 4 and get the majority of minutes there.

I think Smith and Marvin will have to outplay Shelden by a pretty wide margin to start ahead of him at the 4.

[CBAreject]

Lo Wright at PF thread

OK, so since we keep trying to bench our two hopeful stars, here is my starting lineup:

SF: Josh Childress

PF: Lorenzen Wright

C: Zaza Pachulia

SG: Joe Johnson

PG: Speedy Claxton

6th man: Salim Stoudamire

Bench (in no particular order): Batista, Jones, Shelden Williams, Marvin Williams, Lue, Josh Smith

[Yeti]

Quote:

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but i think it is a safe bet that Shelden will start at the 4 and get the majority of minutes there.

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Why do not give Shelden a year to adjust like Josh, Chilz, and Marvin needed? I think it is too much to expect SW to step up right away. The Summer League performance shows he needs a little time - like everyone else. I think the load will be on Josh and Marvin at the beginning at least.

[Iman]

Wow, I seem to be in the extreme minority. I see this teams future identity being JSmoove and Marvin playing the forwards together. I thought there was a chance that Shelden might start at one forward but only get about 25 minutes vs over 30 for JSmoove and Marvin. Not that summer league means much but I'm now almost positive that Shelden wont start.

JSmoove or Marvin will get backed down by an opposing PF more than Al did but their other skills will make them at least as good defensively as Al. Where we will drop off is not having as much post offense. I also think that everyone keeps forgetting that JSmoove and Marvin are just growing into their bodies. As they get stronger and learn to hold their positioin they will be fine defending the post, for sure in a year or two much better than Harrington defensively. ZaZa will also improve defensively as he matures but not enough to ever team up with our two tweener to be much better than average defensively. For that to happen we still have to find that dominant center. Until then I'm still starting my future, even if they get pushed around alot. Maybe that will make them both a little meaner which is what we need anyways.

[Jdawgflow]

I am going to have to agree with those here who believe we will see a starting line up of:

Speedy

JJ

Marvin

JSmoove

Zaza

These guys will give us the best chance to win because, hopefully, we will be running the whole game. That is why the extra depth this year will also be so helpful. We can always substitute in "better" defenders when the need arises.

Our versatility this year will be key.

And like CBA said, Marvin and Smoove are being looked at as our future stars.

Here is to the next BIG THREE: JJ, Marvin, JSmoove.

I am SO ready for this season to start. Giddy up!!!

[Guest Walter]

...Billy Knight utterly failed to get a center allowing MW and JS to thrive as primarily perimeter players without conceeding the post, enabling the 2-Sf starting lineup to flourish, and affording the team its best chance for title contention.

I believe there were 3 very good possibilities this offseason in Sene, Bynum, and Pryzbilla. Potentially one at the trade deadline in Nene. His job is to build a title contending team, not trade Al (this was determined long ago) for nothing to make room for both MW and JS starting THEN use a 5th pick role player to bench one of them. I-F you are going to be a dumbass and draft every GD Sf that crosses your path, then be [censored] sure you acquire a true center, one potentially dominant on both ends of the floor, to allow them to start and play (their game) for you without giving up the post. Certainly don't draft the talent and then draft lesser talent that benches them because you have failed to get the players particularly a center to complement your talent.

Quote:

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In my opinion (I could very easily be wrong), Smoove cannot cover most of the PF's in this league man to man.

Add in Zaza at center, and that is a VERY soft defensive frontcourt.

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This is all true and what I and others have been saying.

Let me be clear here. It would be one thing if it appeared BK was even trying to get the appropriate type center with enough ability to pair with MW and JS. Recall this offseason when he made a reasonable offer to Cassell. That at least said, "we're definately attempting to address the Pg position this offseason". To not get Cassell wasn't significant after getting Speedy (who has ? but will do). To not even tryout the top center prospects of the sort that could allow for a 2-Sf lineup. To not go after one in FAcy. To not get one from Indy for Al (Harrison). To not do just about anything to get the center prospect that let's this team give a sigh of relief "we've got a definate direction, a team to let flourish and grow together"...not just a player or two, most of whom can't much less won't start because of another, often lesser prospect, due to BK's consistent drafting at 1-position at the expense of others and his inability to acquire the necessary catalyst (true center...) enabling his bottlenecked acquired talent to flourish.

For those of you who apologize for BK, insisting we can't know this or that deal, what he is or isn't doing, or that we simply cannot comprehend his great basketball mind...hose of your who claim that our "ignorance" is his defense...BULL [censored]! There is no defense for the position BK has put us in only to cry it's not his fault for his inability to get us out of them. He shouldn't have chosen the path of repetitive forward drafting if it wasn't the easiest, best, most likely, and if not those, most correctable path.

It's his charge to get us out of the problem he created. IMO he had this offseason, where we had more capitol than any other team, to all but fix the problems he created without creating more, new ones. He utterly failed and he did so showing extreme incompetence. Promising SW ANYTHING?!?!?!?!?!?, eliminating any draft day trade posibilities, not trying out the top talent? Unforgivable! The whole Al Harrington fiasco? Get that [censored] done at the trade deadline if you can't get more than scraps! Lo Wright? A short-term role player that doesn't help us much. His signing must make you ask, "Why not get the Pf equivalent of Lo instead of use the 5th pick on a 1-dimensional role player?"

Most importantly to this discussion...He did so without even attempting to fashion the team in a manner where MW and JS can start and eventually thrive together. There is not one hawk fan that would see anyone but MW and JS as our two most talented prospects (aside from JJ, who is not a prospect) and if given the chance likely our 2nd and 3rd most talented players behind JJ. Moreover, they are diverse 3s, both able to compliment each other extremely well given the right center so the team does not conceed the post. We all see that! How hard is it to think, "hmm, I could address the interior defense problem, but if doing so benches our best prospects for a lesser one, then maybe I haven't done my job well. Rather how can I approach fashioning a team following my own stated philosphy, with my best 5 players on the basketball court. I need just the right center. I need one who can potentially dominate the post and therefore not conceed it to other teams allowing MW and JS to play their predominant perimeter games.

Unfortunately, none of BK's energy or the team's capitol went there. BK creates problem after problem and either doesn't solve them (no true center) or creates more problems when he tries to (benches MW or JS for less talented interior defense role player he spent a 5th overall pick to acquire). It takes one ugly mind to think benching your best talent is title contention team building progress. Enable your best talent with the right compliment or catalyst, don't bench your best talent in favor of lesser talent just to prevent oyou from having to admit your many past mistakes.

I could rant on, but as you can see I believe BK to be just an utter [censored]-up at this point. I have no faith, no hope, no belief that he can build a TEAM. He never has. He never will. He just trips over himself everytime he tries to fix one of his prior mistakes, he doesn't even realize (or cannot acquire it regardless) what this team needs (the right center)...I'm done.

W

[Popeye]

You are saying Billy failed to get a center as Marvin and Smoove are in prime and final days of their careers. Those guys are only 20 and 21 and Billy has a lot of time to get a center and not to rush.

[Guest Walter]

Quote:

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You are saying Billy failed to get a center as Marvin and Smoove are in prime and final days of their careers. Those guys are only 20 and 21 and Billy has a lot of time to get a center and not to rush.

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How many teams has he even led to the playoffs? His team record is abysmal. His chosen coaches weak-ass. I've been waiting 8 years while this team has struggled. BK set his own timetable and it's now up given he traded next year's pick to move it up. With our lesser future draft selections we can't expect a center prospect and by then JS will be deciding whether to resign FROM THE BENCH!

Neither MW, JS, or Childress will resign to remain on the bench. If all Billy can do is punt rebuilding or patch up his mistakes rather than fix them, he's no GM we want.

W

[Diesel]

Quote:

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-F you are going to be a dumbass and draft every GD Sf that crosses your path, then be [censored] sure you acquire a true center, one potentially dominant on both ends of the floor, to allow them to start and play (their game) for you without giving up the post. Certainly don't draft the talent and then draft lesser talent that benches them because you have failed to get the players particularly a center to complement your talent.

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BK said to hell with getting a dominant Center, nobody else has one, why should we waste our time trying to get one. He also said "Basketball players win games, not positions"!

I'm shocked you didn't get the email...

That's his defense for not taking Paul when he could. I say it was great use of diversional rhetoric...

I'm formulating the same kind of diversional rhetoric based on Bush statements...

1. This war is not about WMDs or Oil, it's about Freedom!

2. "You never know what your history is going to be like until long after you're gone." --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., May 5, 2006

Anyway...

Howabout some of that diversional rhetoric from Atl Spirit.

"We have just received the court's 23-page decision, the decision is wrong, both on the law and on the fact. We will review our options with our legal counsel but we expect that the decision will be overturned on appeal."

[Yeti]

Quote:

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Wow, I seem to be in the extreme minority. I see this teams future identity being JSmoove and Marvin playing the forwards together.

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I don't think you are really in the minority. I really see Smoove and Marvin starting. I am trying real hard to push back my real feelings about Shelden and give him a chance. I am hoping that he will end up being useful in the frontcourt rotation. But we have some folks here who think he can start from day-1. I don't think thats fair to a rookie, and so far he hasn't shown that he is better than Este. We'll find out soon enough.