Who is your GM: Babcock or BK...

[Diesel]

After reading Sothron's insistance that Babcock's record makes him a better GM, I said: "this deserves a poll"...

If you were given the Keys to the brand NEW Atlanta Jaugars Franchise (after the collapse of the Hawks structure and all)..

Who would you choose as your GM From the following two choices...

[gutz]

Babcock is by far a worse GM then even BK hands down. Anyone who thinks otherwise doesn't follow the Hawks period. Babcock ruined this franchise back in the 90's with horrible drafting, awful trades(trading Nique, Smitty, and Mutombo for nothing), and paying huge salaries to complete bums and thugs like Rider and Big Dog. Give me a break

[Sothron]

lol yeah he's no Knight! Thirty wins in a season is Knight's personal championship! Fifty wins in multiple seasons? That's just fantasy land! ROFLMAO! Knight's record is one of the worst all time records of any general manager in professional sports but boy some of you guys just love your Knight LOL.

I seriously needed the laugh factory from this forum before lunch. Hey Diesel start a poll asking who was the better SF, 'Nique or Marvin or Smoove. I'd love to see the responses to that! ROFL!

[DJlaysitup]

You should also put Atilla-the-Hun and Satan on the list and give us a real choice.

[gutz]

I'm not a BK fan by any means but you must not know how badly Babcock crippled this franchise. Hence why BK was hired to come in and COMPLETELY gut it and rebuild from the ground up. All I'm saying is don't use Babcock as a better GM than BK. That is what is just downright laughable. LOL

[Sothron]

Yeah you are so right man. I mean, its not like Babcock ever got past that mythical thirty win mark. I mean, its not like Babcock traded an aging 'Nique for a younger SF with skills who won a national championship in college and after said SF left managed to sign the top free agent of that year in Dikemebe to a big contracts. Its not like he traded an aging Kevin Willis for Steve Smith and Grant Long. Its not like he traded a draft bust in Robinson for Mookie Blaylock. Its not like he traded two fishes and a barrel for Laettner who was an All-star here. Its not like he brought on Ty Corbin one of the best "glue guys" in the last thirty years in the NBA. Its not like he traded an aging Steve Smith to get CAP RELIEF not Rider. Its not like he traded an aging Mookie for Jason Terry who, I might add, almost won the Finals with another team last year. Its not like he traded Terry for one of the worst chuckers in the NBA like Knight did.

Its not like Babcock traded an aging Deke who had NO INTEREST in staying in Atlanta for a young All-star center and a versatile SF with championship experience. Its not like he traded for a young all-Star power forward and an all-star small forward. Its not like he built this team with the ABILITY to EASILY dump payrool for CAP RELIEF in case it did NOT work out.

Nope, Pete didn't do anything like that. He sure didn't bring the championship quality teams that Knight has done.

[gutz]

Again i'm not saying BK is any better but Babcock is awful! Do you realize we traded Nique for Manning(who was going to be UFA next season)? Why in the hell would you do that trade? Of course Manning was going to leave in the offseason to pursue a hefty contract. Friggin DUH!!!! We got zero compensation for the best player of all time to EVER wear a Hawks uniform. Your nuts if you think that was a good trade for the Hawks. HE also traded those same good character guys like SMitty and Mutombo for bums NOTHING. So whats your point. He trades for Smitty and Mookie but then trades them away and we go straight to the bottom of the standings again. No draft picks and no good players in return? He traded Terry for Walker to get cap relief and then traded Walker for draft picks moron! I don't even want to get into his horrible drafting over the years with numerous 1st round picks that were just downright laughable. I don't even think one of his draft picks is still in the NBA! Everyone on this board could have drafted better than Babcock. To BK's credit this is really only his 3rd year of the rebuilding process that had to take place because of Babcock's total BLUNDERS. Are you forgetting that Jerry West was winning in Memphis with ALL of BK's players as well? West came in and did nothing with Memphis going to the playoff the last 2 years with a whole roster constructed by BK. Like I said before both Babcock and BK are horrible GM's in my book. I just find it laughable that your saying Babcock was a good GM for the Hawks. Were now still living with the crippled franchise he left us with that we had to rebuild from scratch.

[hawkman]

Quote:

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Yeah you are so right man. I mean, its not like Babcock ever got past that mythical thirty win mark. I mean, its not like Babcock traded an aging 'Nique for a younger SF with skills who won a national championship in college and after said SF left managed to sign the top free agent of that year in Dikemebe to a big contracts. Its not like he traded an aging Kevin Willis for Steve Smith and Grant Long. Its not like he traded a draft bust in Robinson for Mookie Blaylock. Its not like he traded two fishes and a barrel for Laettner who was an All-star here. Its not like he brought on Ty Corbin one of the best "glue guys" in the last thirty years in the NBA. Its not like he traded an aging Steve Smith to get CAP RELIEF not Rider. Its not like he traded an aging Mookie for Jason Terry who, I might add, almost won the Finals with another team last year. Its not like he traded Terry for one of the worst chuckers in the NBA like Knight did.

Its not like Babcock traded an aging Deke who had NO INTEREST in staying in Atlanta for a young All-star center and a versatile SF with championship experience. Its not like he traded for a young all-Star power forward and an all-star small forward. Its not like he built this team with the ABILITY to EASILY dump payrool for CAP RELIEF in case it did NOT work out.

Nope, Pete didn't do anything like that. He sure didn't bring the championship quality teams that Knight has done.

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Lol!!!! It's so funny because it is oh so true!!!!

[Sothron]

First, Danny Manning and his agent made a verbal agreement to resign in Atlanta before Babcock made that trade. Secondly, its WONDERFUL he left. Do you even remember?? He left, tore his ACL in both knees in two straight years and the money we SAVED from him went to sign Dikemebe. We would NOT have had the cap room to SIGN Deke otherwise.

Who won that deal?? Keep Manning or sign Deke? Tough choice there!

Secondly, Nique was DONE as in D O N E after he left Atlanta. He never recovered from his Achilles tendon tear in 1990/91 and he had already told Babcock he wanted a huge contract extension. No way should he have gotten it.

About Smitty and Deke: Smitty did almost nothing after leaving Atlanta. He had a HUGE contract left. We got cap relief from trading him. We got a freaking twenty something year old All-star CENTER known for his defense to replace Deke and an extremely versatile SF who won 3 rings as a starter. All of that for a player who was NOT GOING TO COME BACK.

He also got Jason Terry for an aging Mookie Blaylock. He also got Mookie for Robinson and that was a HUGE ripoff in our favor.

I can keep going. The only flaws in Babcock's regime was his drafting which I admit was beyond horrible and the inability to get the last piece on the Deke/Smitty/Mookie teams to win the title. And frankly no one else in the NBA in the 90's figured out a way to beat the Bulls either.

So to tell me he's worse than some piece of crap in Knight who can't even win thirty games!! is just insane.

[gutz]

Who was this 20yr old all-star Center we got for Deke? Point is we didn't get ANYTHING for the greatest player EVER to wear a Hawks uniform. NO draft picks and NO players and Manning left in the offseason. So basically we just gave away Nique for nothing. Bad trade either way you look at it. Are you telling me that bringing in TOTAL THUGS like Big Dog and Rider both with bloated contracts were good moves? At least BK doesn't spend all our cap on bums. Last time I checked those Babcock Hawks teams were NOT the youngest in the NBA either with all basically rookies. Do you realize BK is having to rebuild the franchise right now. Babcock walked into a contender to start with not having to rebuild through the draft. Total different scenarios for both GM's. Can't really compare at this time. If in 2-5 yrs the Hawks still are HORRIBLE then yes BK will be one of the worst GM's EVER. But I highly doubt that will happen. We obviously have great young players on our team that are developing but our coach is horrible and these ridiculous injuries are just amazing.

[AHF]

Bear in mind when considering whether Atlanta was in a great position to rebuild when Atlanta took over that Babcock did the following moves when the team was looking to rebuild after the Mookie/Smitty/Mutombo era:

(1) Traded our 2001 lottery pick (Pau Gasol) & Lo Wright for Shareef Abdur-Rahim

(2) Traded our 2002 lottery pick (Amare Stoudamire and Chris Wilcox picked there and the slot after) for Lorenzen Wright

(3) Traded our 2003 lottery pick (TJ Ford was selected) for Glenn Robinson

Why would anyone select him to run an expansion franchise again?

Hmmmm... Pau Gasol, Amare Stoudamire and TJ Ford versus Shareef Abdur-Rahim and Glenn Robinson.

That makes Josh Childress, Marvin Williams and Shelden Williams over Andre Iguodala, Chris Paul and Branden Roy look pretty damn good.

(Also, with four first round picks in 1999 Babcock took good pick Jason Terry (although Ron Artest would not have been bad there); Cal Bowlder, Dion Glover and Jumaine Jones and immediately traded the only one of those guys still left in the NBA (not to mention passed on Andrei Kirelenko, James Posey and others). Hence, I wouldn't really rely on the 1999 draft as a sign of great things.)

[gutz]

Well that should shut Sothron up then. Wow that is just downright awful what Babcock did there. Its funny that it was BK that raped Babcock on the Gasol deal. Yeah Big Dog was a great pickup! hahahaha. Whats your response now Sothron?

[Sothron]

That you two need to study more before you venture an opinion.

I have pointed out several examples of when Babcock clearly made the right move.

Mookie over Robinson.

Turning a HAS BEEN in Nique into Manning and then into Deke.

Trading a HAS BEEN Kevin Willis into Steve Smith AND Grant Long.

Trading NOTHING for Christian Laettner who was an All-star in Atlanta.

Trading NOTHING to get Ty Corbin who is the best "glue guy" the NBA has seen in the last thirty years.

Trading Deke who was NOT COMING BACK into a twenty something All-Star center in Theo and a versatile SF in Kukoc who had 3 rings worth of experience.

Trading a HAS BEEN Steve Smith to get CAP RELIEF.

Trading a HAS BEEN Mookie into Jason Terry.

Trading an UNKNOWN EURO PLAYER for an All star PF in SAR who put up consistent 20/10 (or close to it) games and performances in Atlanta.

Trading a ten pick in the draft for an All star SF.

And again it bears mentioning: He not only rebuilt the aging 80's playoff team into a VERY good 90's playoff team (so much for that rubbish about not building a playoff team) he ALSO gave us PLENTY of disposable contracts and assets to trade if the rebuilding plan did NOT work out.

Theo Ratliff only had two years left on his deal when we got him. SAR only had two or three years left on his deal. Robinson was the same way. ALL of those "blunders" who I might add were all freaking All-stars before coming here had contracts that could be easily moved or gotten out of. NOWHERE did he give us a bloated poison pill contract or trade away all our picks ala Isiah Thomas to rebuild.

So yes, if you think some ignorant posters who can't even remember all the positive moves Babs did is going to "shut me up" then please go back to worshipping the altar of Billy Knight and leave the rest of us alone. When he breaks thirty wins as a general manager feel free to throw a victory parade down Peachtree. ROFL!

[vdunkndunk]

Sothron, isn't it a bit disingenuous to list the Shareef trade as a positive of Babcock's regime? Gasol would have been a foundational piece for us...he's taken the Grizz to the playoffs multiple times in the WEST. Shareef couldn't get the Hawks to the playoffs even one time in the EAST. And Gasol is still in his prime, Shareef is washed up.

And the funny thing is, the guy that really came off looking like a genius in that one was BK. It just goes to show that in their one head-to-head matchup, BK picked Babcock's pocket.

[gutz]

Sothron is clueless no point in discussing it anymore. Bringing up the Shareef deal as a good move by Babcock is just laughable. Yeah its funny that it was BK who raped Babcock on that deal. hahahahah

[Sothron]

Flashback to that year. Tell me who would have seriously described or forecast Gasol to be as good as he turned out to be. Euro players at that time were new creatures in the NBA world. Whereas in SAR you had an All-star PF who was a hometown product and routinely put up 20/10 a night on a horrible Vancouver team.

So no, don't tell me he "picked his pocket". Dealing Rumeal Robinson for Mookie Blaylock is "pickpocketing".

[TheDude]

this is a laughable poll....we're winning at the same clip now with youngest team in the league as we did under babcock with veterans with no cap space....duh.

[Sothron]

Quote:

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Sothron is clueless no point in discussing it anymore. Bringing up the Shareef deal as a good move by Babcock is just laughable. Yeah its funny that it was BK who raped Babcock on that deal. hahahahah

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Dude you have got to be kidding me. You didn't even know who we got in the Deke trade let alone knew about half the transactions I listed so to call me "clueless" is almost as funny as saying Knight is a better GM.

Can you guys bottle this humor up and dispense it over a work week?

[vdunkndunk]

And here's the worst evidence against Babcock:

In his final Hawks team won 28 games. Except that team was capped out and aging and going nowhere.

BK's team won 26 games last season. Except that team had capflexibility and was the youngest team in the history of the NBA.

Really, which team would you rather have? An old, capped-out, and boring 28 win team, or a young, athletic, and financially flexible 26 win team?

[gutz]

Did Shareef ever even come close to taking us to the playoffs? NO!! Point is we didn't get anything in the Deke trade that helped us.