How much trade value does MW have in this draft?

[SmooveTheFuture]

Marvin is 20 btw and you telling me that if Marvin were in this draft knowing wat we seen from him in the NBA would be the 3rd pick? This guy has no heart or desire to be a superstar in this league. Your smoking some serious crack. Marvin would not go before Brewer, Brandon Wright, Juliuan Wright, Hibbert if he comes out, Jeff Green, Horford and possibly Noah because of his height. I dont even think like I said earlier that he would be a top 10 pick in his own draft if it were redone. Yet alone in this draft which is much much deeper.

[Packfill]

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There is no doubt in my mind. The dude is still only 19 and he is just now scratching the surface of his talent. I'd take him over anyone not named Oden or Durant in this draft.

Al Horford, arguably the 3rd best prospect in this draft, averaged 11.3/7.6 as a sophomore and 13.2/9.5 as a junior. Marvin averaged 11.3/6.6 as a FRESHMAN. And he came off the bench. I have no doubt that if Marvin were in college last year, he would have put up better numbers at UNC than Horford did at FL and he would be a virtual lock for the #3 pick.

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Let's no go overboard here, no way Marvin is the third pick in the draft this year - he wouldn't have been the third pick in last years draft, which was not as good as this years is shaping up. If you doubt me, then explain why Rudy Gay, who is essentially the same player as Marvin, was not a top 3 pick.

[Guest Walter]

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But I doubt it.

Plus, I would just rather get a solid PG with Indy's pick.

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No way.

W

[thesheedera]

The hard thing to do is to consider apples to apples with these guys:

1) What would Marvin have done as a sophomore and a junior, on a solid team the first year and then possibly great UNC team the second year, on which he was to be the "vet" half of a go-to combo with Hansbrough?

2) What would all of the guys currently projected in the lottery have done had they been in the NBA the last two seasons as rooks and second year players?

I don't think any other than Oden would have been slam dunk impact players had they just now been finishing their second years in the pros (I fully understand that their "rookie" seasons would have been their HS senior years, btw, this is just for argument's sake). Durant maybe, and Horford maybe too.

I think there's a very very good chance that had Marvin stayed in school two more years, he would have been in the running for NPOY. He would have had a ton of opportunities to succeed in a very good system alongside a post player like Hansbrough.

Who would go ahead of him in this draft?

Oden, Durant - sure almost definitely. Probably Horford. Guys like Noah and Green, no way in my opinion. He'd probably be on the same plane in my opinion as guys like Hibbert, Brewer, Wright and Conley.

I think he'd be in the top 10 for sure, and I think you could get a top 10 pick in return for him with no problem at all.

[Plastic Man]

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If you doubt me, then explain why Rudy Gay, who is essentially the same player as Marvin, was not a top 3 pick.

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Gay shoulda been a top 3 pick. Time will tell.

[Johnnybravo4]

Had Marvin been a sophmore this year, he surely would have been ACC player of the year and 1st team all american. He's basically Antawn Jamison but with more athleticism.

[AHF]

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Had Marvin been a sophmore this year

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This would be his junior season, but I don't think that makes much difference for your point.

[Guest Walter]

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There is no doubt in my mind. The dude is still only 19 and he is just now scratching the surface of his talent. I'd take him over anyone not named Oden or Durant in this draft.

Al Horford, arguably the 3rd best prospect in this draft, averaged 11.3/7.6 as a sophomore and 13.2/9.5 as a junior. Marvin averaged 11.3/6.6 as a FRESHMAN. And he came off the bench. I have no doubt that if Marvin were in college last year, he would have put up better numbers at UNC than Horford did at FL and he would be a virtual lock for the #3 pick.

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Brandan Wright put up 15/6.2/1.8bl/1.0 steal with 65% shooting his freshman year.

I would also choose Horford over MW now.

MW just doesn't have the intangibles to be great IMO. I hope I'm wrong. At the time he was drafted some people could easily overlook the fact that his HS team had a losing record, he was out of shape for tryouts, he didn't like watching basketball, and floundered in big games more than he stepped up in them as a BU. Now, I hope, after seeing that Gerald Greene JUMPS up with Pierce out and MW hardly raises a finger much with JJ, JC, and JS out. It's going to take a paradigm shift within MW for him. Interestingly, MW's best chance at creating that paradigm shift for himself was to stay at UNC and become "the man" on a serious level. However, I can easily believe that Hansbrough as a freshman would have sent him back into the shadows...Wright this year.

W

[Traceman]

I think he would have been a better college player this year than ANY of the guys on your list and I have little doubt that he will be a better NBA player next year than any of them.

Time will tell who will be the best of this bunch down the road but if I were picking from this group, I'd take Marvin first.

[Traceman]

Felton and McCants and I think Marvin would have been a beast in his 2nd year at UNC after they all left.

As for Horford, I like him but I don't think his talent level is at the same level as Marvin's. I do wish Marvin played as hard as he does though.

I do think it is reasonable to question whether or not that Marvin has that "killer instinct" that drives a lot of the great ones. His talent suggests that he should be trying to be "the man" but he defers too much in my opinion. Always has and that is hard to change. Still, I think he was starting to be more aggressive when he broke his hand and I don't think he has ever got back to that aggresive type of play. The Marvin I saw in the summer league, during the preseason open practice and then during the NBA preseason never returned after he broke that hand. He tried to be aggressive when he first came back but he reinjured the hand and he has not ben the same since.

I truly think it is a confidence issue at this point. I think he will get that aggressiveness back this off season and I think we will see a significant jump for him in year 3 just as we did for J Smoove. I don't know if that jump will translate into him being a 20 ppg scorer next year but I truly believe that he has that in his near future.

[thesheedera]

Had Marvin been a Heel as a sophomore with plans of staying as a junior, there's little doubt that Wright would have gone to dook. He suprised everyone at the last minute when he chose UNC, and there was a starting position wide open for him, vacated by Marvin Williams the year before.

Make no mistake, had Marvin stayed as a sophomore, he and Hansbrough would have been the starting big men and they both would have benefitted from that tandem.

[Johnnybravo4]

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Had Marvin been a sophmore this year

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This would be his junior season, but I don't think that makes much difference for your point.

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oops

[Guest Walter]

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As for Horford, I like him but I don't think his talent level is at the same level as Marvin's. I do wish Marvin played as hard as he does though.

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I agree Horford's not as talented. But "talent" that doesn't translate are just letters "t", "a", "l", "e", "n", "t" stuck in another word. Moreover, I believe Horford is more skilled. I've seen him lead a break even, but at the Pf position there is simply nothing he is not good at. MW? There seem to me so many holes in his game where whatever "skill" or "talent" he may have on the practice court just vanish.

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I do think it is reasonable to question whether or not that Marvin has that "killer instinct" that drives a lot of the great ones. His talent suggests that he should be trying to be "the man" but he defers too much in my opinion. Always has and that is hard to change. Still, I think he was starting to be more aggressive when he broke his hand and I don't think he has ever got back to that aggresive type of play. The Marvin I saw in the summer league, during the preseason open practice and then during the NBA preseason never returned after he broke that hand. He tried to be aggressive when he first came back but he reinjured the hand and he has not ben the same since.

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We'll see. Many have been impressive in summerleague only to rule the NBDL. Many have changed their stripes in summerleague only to play in Europe. He hasn't remotely done so in the NBA and frankly I can't imagine a situation where he would have have more opportunity so soon.

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I truly think it is a confidence issue at this point. I think he will get that aggressiveness back this off season and I think we will see a significant jump for him in year 3 just as we did for J Smoove. I don't know if that jump will translate into him being a 20 ppg scorer next year but I truly believe that he has that in his near future.

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I'm just not sure MW will be anything other than at best a 20 PPG shooting scorer. I just don't see the rest of his game. Maybe that will come out too.

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Simply put, by now, had MW stayed in school, I think it's very possible that he could have gone either way. Hansbrough, while not as talented, could have easily, assertively pushed MW back into the shadows (as that seems where his comfort is). Same with Wright. I think just as easily we could have been talking about MW's failure to lead, take over the team, or even be consistently good. College would have afforded him the best opportunity to grow some, but he just as easily could have proven what many feared and most fear now about him, the intangibles just won't allow him to be nearly as good as his somewhat clumsy athleticism and seemingly ample, but poorly translatable skillset would suggest.

W

[DavidSomerset]

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I've been thinking, if we somehow got the #2 pick, we would obviously take Durant.

My question is, could we then turn around and trade Marvin straight up for a pick in the 7-8 range (surely he is worth that much on potential, alone) and take Hibbert?

If we got out of this draft with Durant, Hibbert, and Conley, I would say we'd be sitting very, very pretty for the future.

Durant is an upgrade over Marvin at SF, Hibbert is the defensive big we need, and Conley would be a great PG for us.

AJ/Conley

JJ/Salim

Durant/Chillz

Smoove/Shelden

Zaza/Hibbert

What do yall think?

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The great thing about getting all these young guys is that Durant would be the only one starting immediately...Since we have AJ and Lue at the point, Conley can bide his time...Hibbert would be a VERY solid defensive big coming off the bench, and he could take over starting probably by mid-season if he shows he can ball with the big boys.

IMO, this is the best possible result from this draft:

-Get #2 pick

-Take Durant at 2

-Trade MW for #6, 7, or 8 pick and take Hibbert

-Take Conley at 11 (or Law if he isn't there)

Man we would be set up for some GREAT SUCCESS!!

[mudderfudder77]

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No one is saying Oden, Durant, Conley or Hibbert aren't far superior to current players on the Hawks roster. So don't even go there. What I am saying is that you need BALANCE - i.e., mixture of youth and vets. No team with three rookies, no matter how good they are, is going anywhere fast.

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Chicago won 47 games and went to the playoffs with 4 rookies playing prominent roles. (Gordon, Deng, Duhon, & Nocioni)

[DJlaysitup]

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...I'm just not sure MW will be anything other than at best a 20 PPG shooting scorer. W

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Are you funnin me Walt? Do you really think Marvin will ever be a 20ppg (avg) scorer on a winning team? He doesn't even study basketball for C-Sakes

Good shooters have to be able to GET their OWN shot....in traffic. Marvin can't do that.

[AHF]

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Good shooters have to be able to GET their OWN shot....in traffic. Marvin can't do that.

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Neither could Joe Johnson at that age.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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No one is saying Oden, Durant, Conley or Hibbert aren't far superior to current players on the Hawks roster. So don't even go there. What I am saying is that you need BALANCE - i.e., mixture of youth and vets. No team with three rookies, no matter how good they are, is going anywhere fast.

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Chicago won 47 games and went to the playoffs with 4 rookies playing prominent roles. (Gordon, Deng, Duhon, & Nocioni)

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Your Bulls are the exception to the rule. LOL . . and what that team did was incredible, seeing that they started the season 0 - 9.

But when talking about those Bulls, you also have to talk about what happened the following year. At 47 wins, expectations were high. So how did those Bulls respond? They responded by playing inconsistent basketball for 3/4ths of the year, needing a big time winning streak at the end, just to get to the 41 win mark and get into the playoffs. The loss of Curry had a lot to do with that, but the lack of quality vets on the team had a lot to do with it as well.

That's why your team went out and got experienced vets like a Ben Wallace and a PJ Brown, to solidify the middle. Although Curry and Chandler are better players, they're also more inexperienced players. And inexperienced players tend to be erratic with their consistency on a nightly basis. ( see the Hawks )

Now look at the Bulls. Pretty much challenged all year for the #2 seed in the East. Only had a bad stretch in November because of all of those road games . . ( lol . . damn that circus. Move it to Wrigley Field and let them freeze in the cold ). Once they got back on track, they never looked back.

And look at them now. The young core playing great for the most part ( except Hinrich, who is point shaving right now ), and the old vets doing all of the dirty work.

( LOL . . it was a 9 point game when I started typing this. Now it's down to 3. )

But for the most part, young teams just don't win in this league. And if they do win during the regular season, they probably won't do much in the playoffs.

Experience + talent >>> Youth + extreme talent

Right now, a dimished skills Chris Webber is a better player than a young, talented, but inexperienced Eddy Curry.

Tony Parker is a better player than Chris Paul, even if Chris is more of the prototypical PG.

At this time of the year, which player would you rather have? A Robert Horry or a Tyrus Thomas? Most people will take Horry, even if Thomas is by far the better athlete and potentially the better player.

Even though the younger player has more talent in each case, the experience factor can really hurt a young player in this league. And veteran teams seem to always know what to do and when to do it. And they don't have to be told or taught these things either.

Good teams in this league will hardly ever trade a veteran for a young player. They'll almost always trade for another experienced veteran. Conversely, those teams will trade a good young player for a good veteran any day of the week.

The Bulls did just that, and because of it, it may have helped their young core develop more rapidly.

Good win by the Bulls today.

[Joker]

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Doubt we could get better than a mid 1st. Anyone who's done any legit scouting knows that he hasn't improved since his rookie year.

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he has improved but your not going to get a top 2 pick for no one on the Hawks if not the whole team.

[AtLaS]

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Doubt we could get better than a mid 1st. Anyone who's done any legit scouting knows that he hasn't improved since his rookie year.

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he has improved but your not going to get a top 2 pick for no one on the Hawks if not the whole team.

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You're not getting a top 2 pick in this draft for anyone outside Wade/LeBron/Howard/Kobe or such..