Most hated guy in Sports?

[bfwolf]

Actually, JDU, while his home runs would've increased, I'm willing to bet his OPS would've gone down. Bonds was intentionally walked far more than he should've been by managers who were unschooled in the Moneyball statistical way of thinking. He never could've increased his OPS as much by getting actual at-bats rather than getting those intentional walks. Think about it, to do so, he would need to have a slugging percentage of over 1.

[Sothron]

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Who was the first person elected into the HoF hotshot?

---

So now you're faulting Barry for not being born 100 years ago?!?!?!

Classic!!

---

Well, I guess this shows how much you know about baseball...Your main argument is that Barry is worse because he was born later than Cobb.

---

No, my main argument is that if you put Ty Cobb in today's game the man would be a beast. If you put him on Barry's special steroid diet he would put up unGODly numbers. Look at Cobb's career stats and just imagine him in today's games. Its frightening what kind of numbers he would put up.

The sad thing is that before he cheated, I actually liked Bonds the player (not the person) because he WAS the best all around player in the game and was going to the Hall because of it. Now he's just a cheater who should never be allowed in. What a disgrace.

[Diesel]

Ty Cobb??

OK, let me state this as fact.

The science of pitching is much better now than it was in Cobb's day. IF you stuck Cobb into today's game he'd be lucky to be a .200 hitter.

The rules were also different. Nobody cared how a player choked up on the bat. How heavy the bat was or how much pine tar was on the bat. Nor did they care about how fresh the ball was. No movement on the ball makes the ball much easier to hit.

[AHF]

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Here's a good way to figure out who was a more feared hitter.

Who is the leader in all time walks? Who is the all time leader in intentional walks?

I'll wait for your answer.

---

I'll do better than that.

Here is a more meaningful stat:

Babe Ruth lifetime OPS: 1.164

Barry Bonds lifetime OPS: 1.052

I think that pretty clearly demonstrates who was the more impressive hitter even including walks received. Moreover, who the hell is going to walk Ruth when he is hitting with the Murderer's Row lineup? Put Ruth into Bonds' shoes with Bonds' crappy teammates and his intentional walk rate would also be through the roof. Conversly, put Bonds on those Yankees teams without steroids and he would not be notworthy for intentional walks.

---

Hilarious that you mention that , because Bonds would probably have AT LEAST 100 more home runs (probably more) if he was on that Yankees team with that line-up.

Pitchers could NOT afford to pitch around him on that team with those players batting before and after him.

Probably the most amazing thing about Bonds is that he has put up these numbers with almost no protection around him his entire career...A few years of Jeff Kent is the best he ever got.

---

Here is the most amazing thing about Bonds:

Bonds pre-steroids:

% of seasons with OPS under 0.999 = 46%

% of seasons with OPS under 1.050 = 69%

% of seasons with OPS under 1.100 = 92%

Bonds using steroids, HGH, etc.:

% of seasons with OPS under 0.999 = 0%

% of seasons with OPS under 1.050 = 22%

% of seasons with OPS under 1.100 = 33%

# of seasons in top 10 in OPS all-time:

pre-steroids = 0

using steroids, etc. = 4

I assume you notice a slight trend there?

Bonds is a HOF turned into the greatest science experiment in sports history.

[DavidSomerset]

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Who was the first person elected into the HoF hotshot?

---

So now you're faulting Barry for not being born 100 years ago?!?!?!

Classic!!

---

Well, I guess this shows how much you know about baseball...Your main argument is that Barry is worse because he was born later than Cobb.

---

No, my main argument is that if you put Ty Cobb in today's game the man would be a beast. If you put him on Barry's special steroid diet he would put up unGODly numbers. Look at Cobb's career stats and just imagine him in today's games. Its frightening what kind of numbers he would put up.

The sad thing is that before he cheated, I actually liked Bonds the player (not the person) because he WAS the best all around player in the game and was going to the Hall because of it. Now he's just a cheater who should never be allowed in. What a disgrace.

---

The rules are the same today as they've always been...The ballparks are just as big as they've always been...The only difference between now and then was that Ty Cobb only played against white baseball players...If anything Bonds has had to face even HARDER competition from the pitching position.

I have no earthly idea why you think Cobb would put up better numbers today than he would have back then...If anything, players are better today than they were because players of other races are allowed to play now.

It's the EXACT same game from a rules standpoint.

[macdaddy]

Totally unrelated to the whole point of this thread: I'll never understand why pitchers don't throw inside on Bonds more. He's standing on top of the damn plate with his bionic elbow sticking out there. You're pitching around him anyway just get it all the way in on him. I'm not saying hurt the guy but you've got to back him off the plate. Maybe I'm wrong but I almost never see him get hit.

[DavidSomerset]

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Here's a good way to figure out who was a more feared hitter.

Who is the leader in all time walks? Who is the all time leader in intentional walks?

I'll wait for your answer.

---

I'll do better than that.

Here is a more meaningful stat:

Babe Ruth lifetime OPS: 1.164

Barry Bonds lifetime OPS: 1.052

I think that pretty clearly demonstrates who was the more impressive hitter even including walks received. Moreover, who the hell is going to walk Ruth when he is hitting with the Murderer's Row lineup? Put Ruth into Bonds' shoes with Bonds' crappy teammates and his intentional walk rate would also be through the roof. Conversly, put Bonds on those Yankees teams without steroids and he would not be notworthy for intentional walks.

---

Hilarious that you mention that , because Bonds would probably have AT LEAST 100 more home runs (probably more) if he was on that Yankees team with that line-up.

Pitchers could NOT afford to pitch around him on that team with those players batting before and after him.

Probably the most amazing thing about Bonds is that he has put up these numbers with almost no protection around him his entire career...A few years of Jeff Kent is the best he ever got.

---

Here is the most amazing thing about Bonds:

Bonds pre-steroids:

% of seasons with OPS under 0.999 = 46%

% of seasons with OPS under 1.050 = 69%

% of seasons with OPS under 1.100 = 92%

Bonds using steroids, HGH, etc.:

% of seasons with OPS under 0.999 = 0%

% of seasons with OPS under 1.050 = 22%

% of seasons with OPS under 1.100 = 33%

# of seasons in top 10 in OPS all-time:

pre-steroids = 0

using steroids, etc. = 4

I assume you notice a slight trend there?

Bonds is a HOF turned into the greatest science experiment in sports history.

---

He went from being a good power hitter with a ton of speed in his early years to a strictly power hitter in his later years...Is that really very strange?? His body was older and less nimble, so he decided to focus on working out and getting stronger to hit with more power.

You have absolutely no proof that he took steroids.

And I find it kind of funny you ignored everything I said about him switching places with the Babe.

Babe on the Giants = many less HR's due to no protection in the lineup

Barry on the Yankees = Who knows how many HR's.

[AHF]

Quote:

---

Totally unrelated to the whole point of this thread: I'll never understand why pitchers don't throw inside on Bonds more. He's standing on top of the damn plate with his bionic elbow sticking out there. You're pitching around him anyway just get it all the way in on him. I'm not saying hurt the guy but you've got to back him off the plate. Maybe I'm wrong but I almost never see him get hit.

---

Because he gets to wear armor to the plate that other players don't and this makes him a more dangerous hitter because he can be relatively fearless about going after inside pitches.

While we are looking at pictures of Bonds:

[DavidSomerset]

*

[AHF]

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Here's a good way to figure out who was a more feared hitter.

Who is the leader in all time walks? Who is the all time leader in intentional walks?

I'll wait for your answer.

---

I'll do better than that.

Here is a more meaningful stat:

Babe Ruth lifetime OPS: 1.164

Barry Bonds lifetime OPS: 1.052

I think that pretty clearly demonstrates who was the more impressive hitter even including walks received. Moreover, who the hell is going to walk Ruth when he is hitting with the Murderer's Row lineup? Put Ruth into Bonds' shoes with Bonds' crappy teammates and his intentional walk rate would also be through the roof. Conversly, put Bonds on those Yankees teams without steroids and he would not be notworthy for intentional walks.

---

Hilarious that you mention that , because Bonds would probably have AT LEAST 100 more home runs (probably more) if he was on that Yankees team with that line-up.

Pitchers could NOT afford to pitch around him on that team with those players batting before and after him.

Probably the most amazing thing about Bonds is that he has put up these numbers with almost no protection around him his entire career...A few years of Jeff Kent is the best he ever got.

---

Here is the most amazing thing about Bonds:

Bonds pre-steroids:

% of seasons with OPS under 0.999 = 46%

% of seasons with OPS under 1.050 = 69%

% of seasons with OPS under 1.100 = 92%

Bonds using steroids, HGH, etc.:

% of seasons with OPS under 0.999 = 0%

% of seasons with OPS under 1.050 = 22%

% of seasons with OPS under 1.100 = 33%

# of seasons in top 10 in OPS all-time:

pre-steroids = 0

using steroids, etc. = 4

I assume you notice a slight trend there?

Bonds is a HOF turned into the greatest science experiment in sports history.

---

He went from being a good power hitter with a ton of speed in his early years to a strictly power hitter in his later years...Is that really very strange??

---

Yes - it is. It is totally unprecedented in the history of baseball for someone to have by far their best power seasons after age 35. Find another example. You won't.

Quote:

---

You have absolutely no proof that he took steroids.

---

He admitted it under oath. His trainer admitted it on tape. He grew like a freak of nature including his head. This is like someone doubting that Robert Downey Jr. ever used drugs.

Quote:

---

And I find it kind of funny you ignored everything I said about him switching places with the Babe.

Babe on the Giants = many less HR's due to no protection in the lineup

Barry on the Yankees = Who knows how many HR's.

---

Because Barry only hit a ton of home runs on drugs. He could have had the best protection in the history of the world and never gotten near Babe Ruth or Hank Aaron if he was clean.

Also, for what it is worth, Bonds had some great protection in the prime of his career and never approached the numbers he got with the use of drugs so I question whether protection is a serious factor in the equation.

[AHF]

Quote:

---

*

---

Ever hear of someone's fat making their head grow? Me neither.

[DavidSomerset]

From what I heard, he had to get a bigger hat because they switched hat companies (to New Era), and they were fitted differently.

[DavidSomerset]

Quote:

---

Yes - it is. It is totally unprecedented in the history of baseball for someone to have by far their best power seasons after age 35. Find another example. You won't.

---

Find me another example of someone in the 500/500 club. You won't.

[AtLaS]

Quote:

---

From what I heard, he had to get a bigger hat because they switched hat companies (to New Era), and they were fitted differently.

---

Link

Quote:

---

In the paperback version of Game of Shadows by Mark Fainaru-Wada and Lance Williams there is a new afterword in which the authors chronicle Bonds' abnormal body growth. In his time with the Giants, Bonds went "from size 42 to a size 52 jersey; from size 10 1/2 to size 13 cleats; and from a size 7 1/8 to size 7 1/4 cap, even though he had taken to shaving his head."

---

It wasn't only his head that grew.

[AHF]

Quote:

---

From what I heard, he had to get a bigger hat because they switched hat companies (to New Era), and they were fitted differently.

---

I heard that the Easter Bunny brought him too much candy one year and that was how he grew more muscle than he had in his late 20s.

As for the hat size, look with your eyes. You can tell if something is bigger than it used to be.

Sorry for the sarcasm but I can't believe the naivety people are demonstrating on here.

Do you guys believe that Mark McGwire, Sammy Sosa, Rafael Palmeiro, Jose Canseco and others were clean, too?

[DavidSomerset]

Quote:

---

Do you guys believe that Mark McGwire, Sammy Sosa, Rafael Palmeiro, Jose Canseco and others were clean, too?

---

But the media has a much greater motivation to go after Bonds and try to ruin his reputation than any of those guys.

The media absolutely despises Bonds. I don't trust them.

[AHF]

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Do you guys believe that Mark McGwire, Sammy Sosa, Rafael Palmeiro, Jose Canseco and others were clean, too?

---

But the media has a much greater motivation to go after Bonds and try to ruin his reputation than any of those guys.

The media absolutely despises Bonds. I don't trust them.

---

I blame the media for giving Bonds unequal blame to the other drug users in the game - especially Sosa and McGwire who they lauded endlessly earlier.

All these guys were dirty.

The reason Bonds is more significant is that his career numbers are more significant to the history of baseball.

Bonds is a first ballot HOF game based on talent. His use of drugs elevated his to much more than that and dragged him down to much less at the same time.

[exodus]

I just wanted to say that i found this subject title

"Link to his head growing, please"

very amusing.

[macdaddy]

And baseball doesn't test for human growth hormone at all.

[Sothron]

Quote:

---

Ty Cobb??

OK, let me state this as fact.

The science of pitching is much better now than it was in Cobb's day. IF you stuck Cobb into today's game he'd be lucky to be a .200 hitter.

The rules were also different. Nobody cared how a player choked up on the bat. How heavy the bat was or how much pine tar was on the bat. Nor did they care about how fresh the ball was. No movement on the ball makes the ball much easier to hit.

---

You have said some things on this site that are moronic but this just takes the cake. Ty Cobb, the best player in the history of baseball, as noted by his peers AND successors who voted him in as the first player into the Hall of Fame, would be LUCKY to hit .200?

Classic. Sometimes idiocy speaks well enough on its own to require no further comment.