Luol Deng and Hawksquawk...

[Sothron]

Diesel, stop while you are ahead of yourself. Do you actually watch Deng play? The man is a machine at 18-20 feet. He's not a three point shooter but he has an outside shot. That 11% from three point land is about as relevant as Shaq's three point numbers. Neither one depends or needs it to be effective.

[Diesel]

But there is a difference between a 3 pointer and a Ty Corbin 2.

Nobody cares if Deng had his Pinky toe on the line when he shot his two pointer. The fact of the matter is he's not shooting over 20% from 3. He's not a 3 pt shooter. When a person talks about outside shooting, they don't run over to 82games.com to figure out if the guy was scoring in the midrange. It's interesting that there is only 1 site on the whole internet that keeps up with those fuzzy numbers. What that tells me is that ESPN, SportingNews, CBSSPorts, and every other basketball statics site don't care about those fuzzy numbers. Moreover, that tells me that those fuzzy numbers are not so important. I guess some agent who is trying to make a case for his 11% 3 pt shooting Sf for being a good outside shooter would use those fuzzy numbers, but for the most part, unless they are truly outside.... THE FUZZZY Math doesn't work!!

[Diesel]

If I were looking for Shaq to be an outside shooter then the 11% would matter.

The difference in this: For Chicago, the 11% means nothing.

For Atlanta, what would the 11% mean?

We don't have Hinrich, Gordon, Niocini, or Duhon who can drop 3 pters with amazing accuracy.

It's easy to look at a different system and see a player and wish that we had him and what that player would do..

But welcome to Basketball 201...

If Deng were here...

He'd probably be on the bench waiting for Marvin or Smoove to take a seat.

We don't play much uptempo.

We don't have a great distrubutor.

Dewng would have to create for himself.

And without a consistent 3 pt shot, Deng would find himself sitting next to Woody.

[Sothron]

Yes, I suppose "fuzzy math" could not possibly be supported by ingame footage that shows what Deng can do on the court.

Seriously, have you ever seen Deng play? Do you think the Heat were upset less that Deng was killing them with his 20 foot jump shot versus his getting almost all his points on layups and tipins like Chill?

[mudderfudder77]

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Dewng would have to create for himself.

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And if you had ever actually watched Deng play you would know that he does that very effectively.

[Sothron]

If Deng was here he would have either Deron or Paul getting him the ball and the ability to play off JJ and Smoove. He would fill the exact same offensive role for the Hawks as he does for the Bulls.

In point of fact our offense would be significantly better with him because he can actually drill the mid range shot and our constant pick and roll would be killer by pairing him off with Lue, JJ or another guard.

[exodus]

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For Atlanta, what would the 11% mean?

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For Atlanta, what does Childress' 34% from 3 mean? Very little, since he makes one 3 pointer every two games.

Your ignorance never ceases to amaze me. Deng lights up the defending champs with his jumper and you come on here and try to say he doesn't have a jumper.

[Diesel]

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here he would have either Deron or Paul getting him the ball

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In your best hindsight you wish.

Marvin was choosen because he was BPA.. not because of Need.. Remember...

Back to reality here...

Deng would be here fighting out his time with Marvin and Smoove. Even more interesting is that I believe his lack of long range shooting would keep him on the bench. Supposedly, Marvin does the same things that Deng can do.

The question asked, do I watch Deng. Yes, several times. What I have seen is that he's not versatile. He does what he does well, but he's not versatile and sorry to the Chicago fan who just hangs out here because there are no boards for the true fans of the Bulls, but He's not great at Creating for himself. Let's separate the myth from the truth. He plays in a very open system with some really good Guards...

If you're honest, you will agree with me that our offense and our gaurds cannot compare nor should be compared to what Chicago has.

[exodus]

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he is trying very carefully to build a foundation of NBA "Renaissance" players,

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So BK took Childress, Marvin and Shelden because they are "Renaissance" players?

[Diesel]

I'm not excited about what's happening to Miami because Miami is an old slow team. This is a bad matchup. Go over to the around the league section, Look what I said about Chicago vs. Miami. I said that Miami and San Antonio and probably Dallas will be leaving in the first round because of bad matchups...

This is no surprise.

The surprise is that Miami won last year...

Like I have told you all... The dominant big is not a neccessity to win in basketball right NOW..

So why are you guys on Chicago balls so hard? What's so amazing about this series. Wade is not 100%, Shaq is Old, Payton, Walker, and JWill Suck, and Chicago likes to run and play defense.

Back to Deng...

You danced around the question and made no attempt to answer it. Simply because you know that the answer is that he would struggle here just like a lot of our players struggle.

[exodus]

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You danced around the question and made no attempt to answer it. Simply because you know that the answer is that he would struggle here just like a lot of our players struggle.

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What question is that? His 11% from 3 would mean the same thing that Childress' 34% means. Not much.

Deng would score here the same way he does in Chicago, off mid-range jumpers and drives. If anything he would be scoring more since he would get more attempts.

He doesn't need someone to set him up for easy looks. he can actually drive and pullup for a jumper in someones face, something Childress can't do.

[Sothron]

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You danced around the question and made no attempt to answer it. Simply because you know that the answer is that he would struggle here just like a lot of our players struggle.

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What question is that? His 11% from 3 would mean the same thing that Childress' 34% means. Not much.

Deng would score here the same way he does in Chicago, off mid-range jumpers and drives. If anything he would be scoring more since he would get more attempts.

He doesn't need someone to set him up for easy looks. he can actually drive and pullup for a jumper in someones face, something Childress can't do.

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Totally agree. And as I said earlier, he would probably flourish even more here in Atlanta since the only offensive play Woodson seems to know is pick and roll. Put Deng and JJ in a two man game in the pick and roll and it would be murder.

[AtLaS]

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I for one like what BK has done

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That's a bold statement..

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By very definition of what I just said about his inclinations for drafting talent, he is going to pass on a lot of star talent too. What GM has NOT passed up star talent?

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Exactly, he's passed up a LOT of star talent. Either way, that wasn't my argument. My argument was simply against your statement that "BK always goes with the player least likely to fail," because that statement was definitely untrue.

[mudderfudder77]

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What I have seen is that he's not versatile. He does what he does well, but he's not versatile and

sorry to the Chicago fan who just hangs out here because there are no boards for the true fans of the Bulls

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I hang out quite a bit on the RealGM board, but seeing as I've been a member here for five years - I have a certain nostalgia for the place. Seeing as we both have been here nearly the same amount of time - and you have 20 times as many posts as I do - what does that say about how much I am here.

Coincidentally I would argue that I have as much substance in my 600 posts as you do your nearly 20,000

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but He's not great at Creating for himself.

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30 teams in the league would disagree. It's true that he isn't a "one on one" player, but moving without the ball is a skill - and Deng is damn good at it.

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Let's separate the myth from the truth. He plays in a very open system with some really good Guards...

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No argument here, although playing with good players doesn't somehow diminish his skill. Deng only had 4 games all year where he didn't score in double figures - he is amazingly consistent.

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If you're honest, you will agree with me that our offense and our gaurds cannot compare nor should be compared to what Chicago has.

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I agree, but doesn't change anything of what I said above.

[Dejay]

This is exactly what I've been saying ever since he was drafted. He cannot, cannot, CAN NOT create any shots for himself outside the lane; there's a reason why plays aren't run for him. For a guy of his 'versatility', you'd think that would be a part of his arsenal. His entire offense is put backs, lay ups, and the WIDE ASS OPEN SHOT. That's it in a nutshell. He has NO MIDRANGE GAME WHATSOEVER. With that elongated shot of his, he can never get it off against any defensive pressure on him; he has to be left open to do so.

Luol Deng may not be as 'versatile' as Childress in regards to playing more positions but the one he does play he does it WAAAAYYY better than Childress PERIOD. I'll take his ability to put up 17-20 a night all day over what Childress does, especially considering how bad an offensive team the Hawks are right now. In fact, on this team, he'd likely score more because he doesn't have a Ben Gordon hoisting up shots at will. Throw in a guy like JJ, a point guard like Williams or Paul giving you better opportunities to be ever better from the floor, alongside an improving Josh Smith riding shotgun in the frontcourt, and we would be in business for the next decade.

TP does make a point about Childress not elevating his numbers despite being three years old than Williams. The only reasons I get on MW is because of 1) his draft position, which mandates a game-changing acquisition and 2) the guys who were left at the alter who were picked immediately after BK was done (Paul, Williams, Felton to an extent). Those three GMs damn near trampled each other trying to get their envelopes to David Stern after the MW pick. More attention does need to be paid to Childress' production, though. He should be doing much more than 13/6 right now. He needs to be in that 16/7 range considering the amount of minutes he gets to play and the lack of firepower this team has.

[Diesel]

What you fail to realize is that in Chicago at any time, he has 2 to 3 3 pt shooters standing on the 3 pt line drawing the defense out.

We have Joe Johnson. What happens with Johnson is that he dominates the ball.

Deng would be happy to get the ball and when he gets it, there will be a hand 2 players in his vicinity because we don't have the type of shooters to force any team out of a zone.

Take a look at Josh Smith this season. He really came on after Joe got hurt. That's because Joe getting hurt gave him more opportunities with the ball. He was really hurt with no three point shooters on the floor. So he shot a lot from the three.

[exodus]

You are still missing the point. Deng can make a jumpshot with a hand in his face. Childress can't. That is the key difference between them and it will never change no matter what team either one is playing for.

[BusBoyIsBack]

Childress over Deng is much worst than Marvin over Smoove and Shelden over Roy.

But it's still hindsight

[Dejay]

I'm leaning your way on this one . Childress is a decent player but has not produced as a guy with the years of college seasoning he has should. At least Marvin has the excuse of still being a little green; what's Childress's excuse for putting up nearly the same numbers despite playing more minutes per game? He should be starting at this point in his career, not being a 6th man on one of the worst shooting, lowest scoring teams in the league. Don't get me wrong, 13/6 is good but when you compare him to Iguodala and especially Deng right now, its laughable.

[DrReality]

I remember them interviewing Ga Tech coach after this pick and asking who was better. Not suprising that he was a Deng fan, and turns out he was right.