Hypocrisy running wild around here

[Admin]

How in the world you guys can talk day after talk about BK drafting yet another 6'8-6'9 forward and yet you advocate drafting Horford (at least the majority of this board appears to) who isn't even 6'9 without shoes on.

[AtLaS]

Every player in the NBA's height is listed as their height in shoes. Horford is 6'9.75 in shoes, which is basically 6'10. Compared to Shelden's 6'8.5 in shoes, it's a significant difference. Not to mention, his standing reach is 3 inches higher than Shelden, and his vertical is 3 inches higher, I'd say there's a pretty big difference. Given Horford's strength and being 6'10 and his back to the basket game (including a 35" vertical), I see no possible way he can't play center given the success of similar sized centers in the NBA.

It's mainly because we can still get Critt/Law with the 11th pick, and Horford will be better than any center than we can get through a trade. I'll be happy with Conley or Horford at #3, whichever one it may be. Horford is NOT another Shelden.

[AtLaS]

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So the 1.25 inch difference in height is a significant difference? Give me a break.

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When you also consider his 3 inch advantage on standing reach, and his vertical leaping advantage, I think it's significant.

This was my quote:

I see no possible way he can't play center given the success of similar sized centers in the NBA.

I'd be just as happy with Conley though. Just curious, you want Conley at 3?

[exodus]

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Not to mention, his standing reach is 3 inches higher than Shelden, and his vertical is 3 inches higher,

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The problem is Horfords standing reach is only .5" higher than Smith, and his vertical is 4" lower.

Smith is undersized for the 4 and having Horford next to him at C would leave the Hawks badly undersized.

[vdunkndunk]

People act like every PF who ever comes out of the draft again between 6'8-6'10 is automatically a Shelden clone. Elton Brand is 6'8. Is he exactly like Shelden? What about Carlos Boozer? Amare Stoudamire?

I'm not saying that Horford will be as good as those guys, but you can't compare everyone to Shelden based only on height...especially when that someone is way bigger than Shelden anyway. Some people are beginning to say that Horford could end up being a Boozer-type of player, and I don't think that's outside the realm of possibility.

Personally, I think if that's true we could use a guy like Horford. He's significantly taller and longer than Shelden and he's quicker, more athletic, handles the ball better, and has a more developed back-to-the-basket game. He's also just about as strong as Shelden. So I don't think having one necessarily precludes the other...especially if you like Critt better than Conely anyay.

Of course, I'm still totally down with drafting Conely too, but I have a feeling BK has zeroed in on Critt and will go big at 3 or else trade. Either way is fine with me, because I'm also fairly high on Critt. I think he can push the ball in transition right away and give us a slasher who can get to the rim and finish. His halfcourt leadership is a little further away right now, but it will come.

[exodus]

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People act like every PF who ever comes out of the draft again between 6'8-6'10 is automatically a Shelden clone. Elton Brand is 6'8. Is he exactly like Shelden? What about Carlos Boozer? Amare Stoudamire?

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Where exactly did i mention Shelden in my post.

All of those forwards you mention have standing reaches of 9' or above. Shelden's is 8'8" and his vertical is only 33.5".

[pimp]

It's not the same as when Marvin was drafted because

we're all assuming that Bk will that a point guard at #11

But if BK doesn't take a PG, and ends up drafting 2 forwards

then i will be highly pissed off.

[exodus]

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because I'm also fairly high on Critt. I think he can push the ball in transition right away and give us a slasher who can get to the rim and finish

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I am not so high on Crit now after the combine numbers. the whole deal with him was based on his size, athleticism and "upside". Turns out he is not much bigger than Law and isn't very fast in a league where speed is at a premium due to the new rules.

Law has passed Crit as far as i am concerned.

[vdunkndunk]

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People act like every PF who ever comes out of the draft again between 6'8-6'10 is automatically a Shelden clone. Elton Brand is 6'8. Is he exactly like Shelden? What about Carlos Boozer? Amare Stoudamire?

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Where exactly did i mention Shelden in my post.

All of those forwards you mention have standing reaches of 9' or above. Shelden's is 8'8" and his vertical is only 33.5".

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Obviously I'm not responding to you. Did you even read any of the posts in this thread?

I'm responding to this:

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How in the world you guys can talk day after talk about BK drafting yet another 6'8-6'9 forward and yet you advocate drafting Horford (at least the majority of this board appears to) who isn't even 6'9 without shoes on.

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And to this:

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People complained about Shelden as a pick even though he satisfied a need. Horford is basically a clone of Shelden but slightly better. Is Horford really that great for one to justify going against previous reasoning. Also, Shelden can't play center, but just because Horford is a little better that means he can play center?

Horford is out of the equation because we already have a comparable player in Shelden. When you don't have a competant position, you need to fill that position unless you can significantly upgrade a position you already have. Is Horford really a significantly greater upgrade from Shelden?

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[exodus]

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Obviously I'm not responding to you. Did you even read any of the posts in this thread?

I'm responding to this:

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Then click REPLY on the post you are responding to. If you reply to me i will assume your post is directed to me.

[coachx]

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because I'm also fairly high on Critt. I think he can push the ball in transition right away and give us a slasher who can get to the rim and finish

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I am not so high on Crit now after the combine numbers. the whole deal with him was based on his size, athleticism and "upside". Turns out he is not much bigger than Law and isn't very fast in a league where speed is at a premium due to the new rules.

Law has passed Crit as far as i am concerned.

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Agreed. I never liked Critt much any way, b/c I saw him play too much atGT. His combine #'s are closer to average then great and we no his mental part of the game is poor at best. He is the sloppiest PG I have ever seen mentiond as a 1st round pick.

[Sothron]

I think everyone here knows how I feel about Knight and this situation just shows again why I question how in the world he ever got a front office job. Every draft every year has some kind of 6'9" SF or PF/C tweener. The things that are actually scarce are true point guards, centers and scorers. And yet draft after draft we load up on 6'9" tweener forwards. It handicaps our trading position (like this year) and it forces us to either look past talent to fill a need or in Knight's case simply keep taking the same kind of players and totally ignore other positions.

That being said we can't be scared to never draft a 6'9" forward if the player deserves the draft spot. The Lions drafting Calvin Johnson is exactly the example I was pointed to by one source. If they really feel Wright or Horford is that much a can't miss guy Knight will draft them with zero qualms about how it effects player minutes or roster spots. Talent is talent.

[Swatguy]

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How in the world you guys can talk day after talk about BK drafting yet another 6'8-6'9 forward and yet you advocate drafting Horford (at least the majority of this board appears to) who isn't even 6'9 without shoes on.

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People whining about BK drafting another Forward. That's all there is. Whether the forward is 6'6" (Brewer) or 7'0"(Noah,Yi) or between (Horford, Wright, Green ect...). Four or five guys have better value than Conley at 3. I believe Javaris is better than Conley and available (possibly) at 11. There IS NO Center to draft. So a forward and a PG is it. But the PG will not be selected at 3.

[Admin]

I don't have a problem with him drafting another 6'9 forward. I don't think it's the right move, but if they felt that player was an upgrade over what we have, then so be it.

Personally I feel that Yi (simply because I believe he will be a great player), Conley, Noah (I believe he can play C effectively), and Brewer (will be one of the best from this draft for years) would all be much better picks than another PF, especially considering that I firmly believe that SW will be our franchise PF for the next decade. He needs to be given a chance to play healthy before we waste a high lottery pick on a guy like Horford who can't play C next to Shelden or any PF we have on our roster and honestly I don't find Horford to be that amazingly impressive anyway. I would MUCH rather have his taller and more athletic teammate Noah. He has plenty of size and a great motor. I love what he brings to the table. He is basically a 7' version of Varejao. I see no reason in the world that he couldn't play the 5 for us.

The bottom line is that I am tired of hearing the same people complain about BK drafting a 6'8-6'9 forward high in the lottery and then turn right around and say he should draft another 6'9 forward high in the lottery (MW,SW bashers and Horford supporters is who I am specifically referring to).

[Diesel]

If Yi would come in for a workout and he measures 7'0 in shoes, he's the best guy for the job.. period.

You don't see his agility and speed in 7 footers.. especially not with a developed offense.

Every other point is Moot.

If he's a true 7 footer, we get him and we run a three foward zone defense and a three forward offense. UNTIL you get another 7 foot Center.

However, we would cause matchup problems for teams. Yi would make a living blowing past PFs and Cs. He would make a living posting up Sfs.. Smoove would make a living blowing past Pfs and Centers. Maybe Yi can teach Smoove how to drive the lane!! AnD JJ!!!!! Teams will be so afraid of spreading their defense that JJ would become the new sniper... so would Law and Salim!!!

[mrhonline]

I agree to the extent that Yi appears able to create his own shot. But, on defense, wow would the Hawks get slaughtered...

[Bulldog]

the height has nothing to do with it. The Hawks shouldnt draft another 6'8 wing man. a 6'8 banger type is fine. I would draft Charles Barkley and he is 6'5 as he would fill a need for a quality enforcer. People are down on the Shelden pick because of what else was available like Brandon Roy. Even having said that I dont think it was a terrible pick. Shelden had his moments and will improve.

[Diesel]

Well, you can say that regaurdless of who we draft... NO one draft pick will solve our defensive woes... I think that's Hawks fans problems.

We're looking for a quick fix and there's just not one in the draft. The other thing is that we're not so bad defensively...

Our defensive FG% last year was .466. That's up from .478 in 06 and 0.476 the year before that. So we are improving defensively. I think that team defense will be a great help for us.

However, if you want to point to our problems... It's:

1. Scoring

2. Scoring Efficiency

3. Pace.

Scoring: We can't score. We are bad shooters. We don't cause any fear in our opponents because we run bad offensive sets that work against the strengths of our team.

YI would be just what our team needed offensively. A guy who can create his own shot, shoot of the dribble, and score on the break.

The same with Law.

The added advantage of Law is that he adds great 3 pt shooting range. We need JJ and Law to be threats at the 3 pt line. That opens the floor for Smoove and Yi to penetrate and score.

We also need to move towards being more of a running team. YI has running written all over him. If he runs, any PG has Yi or Smoove on the break... Can you imagine!!!!!!

I just believe that our added offensive production trumps defense. Team defense will make our defense look better.

[Diesel]

Well, Shelden is our 6'9 banger. That's not really a big issue.. you're right.

Yi to me represents a Superstar talent. This guy has moves offensive moves and great footwork. I don't care what you call him. You can call him a Sf for now. You can call him a wingman for now... However, eventually, he will be a pf/C similar to Gasol. Still, I think he has more tools than anybody else in the draft.

Plus the fact that he's 7'1 245 (supposedly) doesn't hurt.

[Diesel]

Exactly. Horford may be more athletic, but if you talk Athletic, you move into Smoove's domain and there Horford doesn't hold a candle.

Everywhere else, he's trumped by Shelden.

I'm telling you: Shelden, Smoove, Yi... 3 forward front!!! That my friend is a winner!!!