Shelden Williams vs. Brendan Haywood

[Diesel]

Haha...

So you want to just make a stupid move based on what can be done with the "top bigs of the league". Obviously, Washington didn't feel that same way.

[mrhonline]

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If you think Shelden and Solomon can effectively guard the top bigs in the league you are certainly WAY more optimistic than I am.

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I would even go so far as to say the "top bigs." Playing Shelden at center next to Smith at PF will be a mistake IMO.

[exodus]

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So you want to just make a stupid move

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it is only a stupid move to you because you are continually trying to defend the Shelden pick. Shelden can't guard bigs because he just can't reach high enough to challenge there shots. And he certainly didn't stop guys like Boozer or Curry from getting to the basket easily against him.

I have no doubt that Shelden can play better d than Zaza but that is faint praise.

Your fantasy world has never had much resemblance to reality.

[atlien110]

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If you think Shelden and Solomon can effectively guard the top bigs in the league you are certainly WAY more optimistic than I am.

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I would even go so far as to say the "top bigs." Playing Shelden at center next to Smith at PF will be a mistake IMO.

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care to elaborate?

[mrhonline]

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care to elaborate?

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Not really. I think most Squawkers are capable of understanding that the NBA isn't a video game, and you can't simply play an unathletic 6'8 forward at center because you want to.

I compare the Shelden at C project to the JJ at PG project. It might make sense on paper or in short stretches, but a winning team needs a solid big man in the middle.

[TexasPete]

I think Haywood would also benefit by a change of scenery. It's tough when Arenas takes so many shots and Butler and Jamison take what Arenas doesn't.

Haywood is simply a better defender than Shelden at the 5. It isn't even close. Shelden is a 5 that has the body of a 4. He was truly a terrible pick and BK's strange rush to judgement cost us big time. If BK had to do it again there is no way he picks Shelden.

They are also moving him to the 5 because he can't play the 4, he isn't quick enough laterally to stay with PF's. So, he is too small for 5 and not athletic enough to guard a 4.

Its a dilemma.

I would trade SW all day for Haywood. Giving up SW is small potatoes because he can't play. He is a career role player. Haywood is also a role player but he can actually PLAY his role at the 5.

[atlien110]

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care to elaborate?

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Not really. I think most Squawkers are capable of understanding that the NBA isn't a video game, and you can't simply play an unathletic 6'8 forward at center because you want to.

I compare the Shelden at C project to the JJ at PG project. It might make sense on paper or in short stretches, but a winning team needs a solid big man in the middle.

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squawkers? - cute nickname...

i'm impressed that you understand that the nba isn't a video game. that takes a lot of intellectual capacity to figure that out.. heh

you don't play shelden at center because you want to. you play him there because thats the position he fits into best.

what's shelden's strengths? got a decent mid range shot, good free throw shooter, is strong and has a large wingspan.

his weaknesses include his mobility and quickness.

this means he has a hard time guarding and staying in front of agile 4's. but he has the leverage and strength to push most centers out of their sweet spot. beside yao and shaq what other center are you really worried about on the offensive end anyway?

shelden improved drastically on defense towards the end of the year when he was playing center. i'm not a huge shelden fan, but i say give him another year to prove himself before saying he's worthless..

you and exodus might be the only two guys that follow the nba that like haywood or think he's worth anything more than a bucket of chicken. he sucks, he's never been good... not even in college.

[Dexmethylphenidate]

Well..you must be wanting an allstar caliber center then because that's what it must take to guard top centers in the NBA. I just want a center who's not a stiff and can rebound and alter shots.

[mrhonline]

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If BK had to do it again there is no way he picks Shelden.

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I think it's obvious that Knight didn't anticipate Smith's development at the 4 to be so dramatic and rapid.

[mrhonline]

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you and exodus might be the only two guys that follow the nba that like haywood or think he's worth anything more than a bucket of chicken. he sucks, he's never been good... not even in college.

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Yeah, you're right. No one in the NBA thinks Haywood could start at center.

[exodus]

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If BK had to do it again there is no way he picks Shelden.

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I think it's obvious that Knight didn't anticipate Smith's development at the 4 to be so dramatic and rapid.

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Knight doesn't anticipate a lot of things that seem obvious to most of us.

Hopefully he can at least admit his mistake and bring someone in that can actually make an impact.

[atlien110]

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I think Haywood would also benefit by a change of scenery. It's tough when Arenas takes so many shots and Butler and Jamison take what Arenas doesn't.

Haywood is simply a better defender than Shelden at the 5. It isn't even close. Shelden is a 5 that has the body of a 4. He was truly a terrible pick and BK's strange rush to judgement cost us big time. If BK had to do it again there is no way he picks Shelden.

They are also moving him to the 5 because he can't play the 4, he isn't quick enough laterally to stay with PF's. So, he is too small for 5 and not athletic enough to guard a 4.

Its a dilemma.

I would trade SW all day for Haywood. Giving up SW is small potatoes because he can't play. He is a career role player. Haywood is also a role player but he can actually PLAY his role at the 5.

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the washington scenario is the best for haywood because he doesn't have to carry any part of the offensive load. he's a turnover waiting to happen. all he needed to do was rebound and play defense which you would think he could do a decent job of. but he couldn't even win the starting job outright. i think in haywood's case some of you are too caught up in his size and not realizing he's worthless. see adonal foyle who is a better rebounder and defender but still sucks badly...

[mrhonline]

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Well..you must be wanting an allstar caliber center then because that's what it must take to guard top centers in the NBA. I just want a center who's not a stiff and can rebound and alter shots.

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[TexasPete]

I will tell you that big men do like to touch the ball every now and again. Never getting a touch is a pretty lousy way to play basketball. I have watched Haywood in the actual arena many times and I can tell you he is no stiff.

Is he a great player? Hell no. But, he is better at 5 than SW. Thats what this debate is, him against el stiffo.

SW is 6'7 in his socks. He can't move. He can't challenge shots in the paint. Haywood is taller and longer and plays good positional defense. He is just better than SW.

That doesn't mean he doesn't have warts. But being a better 5 than SW doesn't mean much cause he sucks.

[Sothron]

I agree with honest abe. I'd rather them call Philly for Stephen Hunter than trade Shellhead for Haywood.

That being said I do agree with exodus and mrhonline that Shellhead can't guard NBA centers for any real stretch of time in a game. Guys could literally shoot right over the top with his very short arms.

[exodus]

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But being a better 5 than SW doesn't mean much cause he sucks.

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You really need to stop beating around the bush in your posts and just tell us how you really feel.

[TheDude]

shelden's value is at bottom right now....search for other options, not heywood...trade shelden for a better player or if you don't think shelden fits this team, let him increase his value before you trade him.....

[TexasPete]

I would also trade SW for Steven Hunter. He is also a legit center. Basically, SW is a 5 trapped in a 4's body.

That isn't good. Cut our losses while he still has value, if he still has value.

[TheDude]

we were middle of pack defensively last year so our interior defense, while not great, did not prevent our ascension to the playoffs..

last in the league in scoring is what prevented us from making the playoffs.

[mrhonline]

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I agree with honest abe. I'd rather them call Philly for Stephen Hunter than trade Shellhead for Haywood.

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Hunter is not a solid positional defender at center. He's a solid shotblocker, but that's less of a need for Atlanta anyway.

Brendan Haywood or Jeff Foster make more sense for the Hawks' needs.