Shelden Williams vs. Brendan Haywood

[Wurider05]

Shelden Williams

PPG 5.5

RPG 5.4

APG .5

SPG .64

BPG .48

FG% .455

FT% .764

3P% .500

MPG 18.7

Brendan Haywood

PPG 6.6

RPG 6.2

APG .6

SPG .44

BPG 1.14

FG% .558

FT% .548

3P% .000

MPG 22.6

Stats are comparable between the two but Shelden has way more upside than Haywood.

[atlien110]

i couldn't agree more. haywood is trash.

he's been in the league 6 years and for the past 2 years his numbers have declined from his best season (03-04)- which by the way weren't that great. he couldn't even win the starting job outright over etan thomas. etan who? yes etan thomas. sure brendan will give you a couple of blocks a game to go along with several turnovers all while looking absolutely lost on the offensive end.

[Plastic Man]

Also Haywood's FT shooting is atrocious. One thing I really like about our bigs (Shelden, Zaza, Solo) is they can hit FT's--all 3 shoot over 76%.

[DrReality]

Adding him would be like so many of BK's move that amount to reheating leftovers again. Is he any better than Lo? He may help in situations but it is by such a minor degree . . . . what's the use. Make a meaningful move, not some BS trade like this.

[exodus]

The Hawks need a center with size who can play D. Haywood is a center with size who can play D. The Wizards have consistently gave up far fewer pts when he is playing.

Shelden is an undersized backup 4.

[Dejay]

Let's look at both sides....

Pros to Haywood: good defender in the post, can rebound and block shots. Has a decent contract.

Cons to Haywood: poor free throw shooter, had to split time with Etan Thomas at center, should be better offensively than he's showed so far

As much of a non-fan as I am of Shelden, I'd rather stick with him, considering that Haywood has had six years to get things together and is still platooning in the post. Is Haywood ready to man the middle in full-time duty? He hasn't proved himself enough to do that so far. And although I have very little regard to player stats during the last few games of the season (see Childress's numbers at the end of his rookie year compared to now), I'll even admit that Shelden did look much better than he did earlier.

[exodus]

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Is Haywood ready to man the middle in full-time duty?

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What is full time duty? You think he is going to play 35 minutes a game?

We have Zaza who is fine playing 20-25 minutes per game.

You guys are really not getting it. The forward position is the easiest position to fill. We have a surplus of forwards. We aren't going to get top value when we trade a backup forward for a center or anything else.

We are lacking at center which is the toughest position to fill. The only reason Haywood comes off the bench is because of the coach. And if you go to any Wizards forum you will see that they want their coach gone more than we want Woody gone.

The Wizards gave up 6.7 fewer ppg when Haywood played and that trend has been going on for years. We aren't going to be a good team until we get a center who can play defense. And we can't wait for Santa to put a defensive center under BK's tree.

[Dejay]

I'm wishy-washy on this one, Ex. By making the move, we would've essentially spent a 5th pick on a career 8/6 player (not that I expected soooo much more from SW in the first place). I guess that points more to BK's drafting than Haywood himself.

[exodus]

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we would've essentially spent a 5th pick

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That is the whole problem right there. People keep thinking about Shelden as the 5th pick. That makes no sense.

First of all he should have been picked at 5 in the first place. Secondly his value has gone down since the draft because now everyone knows he can't block shots or defend that well in the NBA. Plus he struggled to get minutes on one of the weakest teams in the NBA that had a ton of injuries.

[macdaddy]

BK has yet to trade one of his draft picks except Diaw. And look what he brought back for him. I don't think BK undervalues the guys he has picked.

[Dejay]

There's no secret concerning my disdain over picking Shelden over Roy with the 5th pick last year. We all know that role players have no business getting selected that high. It still doesn't negate the sting that BK PICKED HIM ANYWAY and last I checked, we don't get mulligans for that. We should be getting more value than that from the 5th pick (which Shelden is whether we like it or not) which points the fingers back to you-know-who.

[exodus]

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We should be getting more value than that from the 5th pick

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No we shouldn't. Whenever you mention the 5th pick it shows that you aren't accepting reality. It doesn't matter whether Shelden was picked 5th, 20th or 50th.

What matters is his value to the team now vs what Haywoods value would be.

[Dejay]

I know, but still....

[Vol4ever]

I would only take Haywoood for Solomon Jones or AJ BUT there is no way I give up Sheldon for Haywood.

[atlien110]

so it's ok to use the excuse that brendan got shorted on minutes because of a clueless coach but shelden doesn't qualifty for the same excuse? huh?

justifying the reason to get brenden on the fact that zaza played similar minutes is laughable. so we strengthen a position by getting a player thats just as one dimensional as our the player that currently mans the spot. huh?

i'm not a huge shelden fan but even i know he has a higher upside than brendan haywood.

just compare their best months respectively..

shelden (9 games - april)

11.6 points

10.6 rebounds

.89 blocks

1.78 steals

30.4 minutes

58.8 fg%

brendan (15 games - january)

7.9 points

7.9 rebounds

1.27 blocks

.73 steals

27.4 minutes

58.5 fg%

so let me understand this correctly. somehow i'm supposed to be happy about acquiring a 6 yr player that hasn't improved during his tenure in the league, that costs twice as much as the C/F the hawks drafted in last years draft . when both players got the necessary PT to even evaluate their talent, shelden was more productve.

[exodus]

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that costs twice as much as the C/F the hawks drafted in last years draft . when both players got the necessary PT to even evaluate their talent, shelden was more productve.

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Ordinarily i would try to explain the concept of defense but in this case i won't bother.

[DJlaysitup]

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We should be getting more value than that from the 5th pick

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No we shouldn't. Whenever you mention the 5th pick it shows that you aren't accepting reality. It doesn't matter whether Shelden was picked 5th, 20th or 50th.

What matters is his value to the team now vs what Haywoods value would be.

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Agreed 100%...I don't know enough about Haywood to have an opinion on this trade talent-wise...but this is the way these things have to be approached. Once you draft a player he is just one of your players - no longer a #5 pick. If you drafted a #10 pick and he turned into ROY would you still trade him for Shelden because Shelden was a #5 pick? Of course not.

As an analogy...let's say I buy a widescreen TV at a high-end store and you get the exact same TV on sale at a discount house for half what I paid. Who has the better TV?

[atlien110]

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that costs twice as much as the C/F the hawks drafted in last years draft . when both players got the necessary PT to even evaluate their talent, shelden was more productve.

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Ordinarily i would try to explain the concept of defense but in this case i won't bother.

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good because your incoherent ramblings are getting annoying. but on a sidenote, i thought defense was a team concept. when the rest of your teammates cant'keep anyone in front of them it makes a post defenders job that much harder.

steals and blocks are stats and don't necessarily translate into meaning a player plays good defense. but it is still a relevant stat from which to gauge a players defensive ability. shelden seems to get a considerable number of steals and his defensive rotations late in the season were improved drastically from the beginning of the season when he played at the 5..

[exodus]

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steals and blocks are stats and don't necessarily translate into meaning a player plays good defense.

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If a team gives up 6.7ppg fewer when a player is in the game do you think that is relevant?

Shelden's standing reach of 8'8" (4" less than Marvin) and his lack of hops keep him from being able to challenge shots in the lane from opposing bigs. That will never change.

[TheDude]

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The Hawks need a center with size who can play D. Haywood is a center with size who can play D. The Wizards have consistently gave up far fewer pts when he is playing.

Shelden is an undersized backup 4.

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while i agree that shelden is short at the center position, by no means do i beleive he is an undersized backup 4....i mean i f he plays the 4, he's not undersized and it's WAAAAY to early to call him backup, especially with what we saw at the end of the season...

he could easily pull a boozeresque development..would anyone trade boozer for haywood? negative...i'm not saying he's boozer yet, but he's played one season and has that type of potential...yes we need a center but we have to get good value for our players...

you don't trade the #5 draft pick the very next year for heywood....

at least go after someone who is better than haywood with less issues.