The BK Vent!

[Packfill]

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Give me Isiah.

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Isiah would be great with the Hawks budget because he would not be able to trade young talent for big salaries. Almost all of his trades suck but he has done a remarkably good job unearthing quality NBA talent in the later portions of the draft.

[djcorley]

Come on...BK has had to deal with THE WORST ownership situation in the league...all things considered I think he's done a damn good job...

Now, I'm not saying he's perfect...but I think I would only take Colangelo, R.C. Buford, Joe D and Maybe Logo...

Otherwise I can't really think of anyone I would defenitively take over BK???

[AtLaS]

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Come on...BK has had to deal with THE WORST ownership situation in the league...all things considered I think he's done a damn good job...

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The ownership has nothing to do with BK's nimwitted drafting.

[TheDude]

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As a former #2 pick, i would consider Stromile Swift a bust.I CAN'T REMEMBER IF bK PICKED HIM OR NOT.

Bk has not signed anyone but Speedy to a bad contract, but

that doesn't mean he didn't try to.

Remember he tried to give the Max to Kenyon Martin, only to get rejected,because he prefered Nuggets "THANK YOU K-Mart"

In Bk's 6 years as a Gm, he has never had a team that won more than 30 games.

Hired two of the worst coaches in NBA history, by record

Mike Woodson and Sidney Lowe.

How many Gm's,that have been around for 6 years , without winning more than 30 games are Currently in the Nba.Bk is lucky to still have a Job.If our owner had any balls , he would be gone by now.

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i don't look at record solely....if your car breaks down you don't replace the carbuerator just because the alternator is broken....

we've lost a lot of games for one reason...we rebuilt through the draft which means young players and losing early on...

[exodus]

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name the gms in the league who have never drafted a bust

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How many GM's have had a top 6 pick every year this decade except for one year? None

And how many of those top 6 picks would be considered above average starters? One.

[pimp]

When your car is out of gas, you just don't keep buying windshield wiper fluid, when you know it want help.

If your building through the draft , you don't draft 6 fowards, when you know you need a pg and c.

[pimp]

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name the gms in the league who have never drafted a bust

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How many GM's have had a top 6 pick every year this decade except for one year? None

And how many of those top 6 picks would be considered above average starters? One.

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[AtLaS]

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And how many of those top 6 picks would be considered above average starters? One.

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That's the worst drafting resume I've ever seen. I assume you're talking about Gasol whom he had to trade for. Babcock sucked but he was drafting in the 20s almost every year. I still don't understand people saying BK has an "eye for talent". It like seriously pisses me off when I hear people say that.

[Nicholasp27]

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2 Former Allstars for the 17th pick is not a good trade.

Yes i happy that we got Josh, but the 17th pick is not equal value to a 20pt scorer and the league leader in Blocked shots.We should have gotten a pick from Portland or a young player.

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both on the decline...what have they done recently? would u want them now?

[sturt]

Had avoided clicking on it, but much of it seems to have elevated the conversation about how to evaluate BK in comparision to others.

My compliments guys.

And W... ex... ya know, most of those who demosntrate a more reasoned approach to BK have gotten that way b/c they show a capacity to evaluate him in context. You both are obviously intelligent people... if you want to "win friends and influence people" so-to-speak, you're going to have to come off as if you recognize the other side of the ledger.

Ex, for example, citing your latest post here... if I may be so bold (...or, naive that the boldness would be received well...) why do we not see any context in your post acknowledging the context under which BK has made those lottery choices? Is it that you truly haven't taken the time to think about it, or is it accurate to say you're ignoring it? To be considered reasonable, one must be willing to acknowledge EVEN the points that run counter to your argument.

My .02.

[AtLaS]

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why do we not see any context in your post acknowledging the context under which BK has made those lottery choices?

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Hindsight can be taken into account when evaluating a GM. Hindsight tells us that BK is a horrible drafter, period, and especially in the lottery. Sam Bowie seemed like a good pick at the time, but does their GM at the time (don't remember who) get off the hook? HELL no.

Not only that, many of his picks were horrible as soon as they were announced. Childress wasn't rated higher than Iggy/Deng, and Shelden was DEFINITELY not rated higher than Roy/Foye. Marvin is at least understandable (even though it didn't make sense b/c of our glut of Fwds and lack of PG) because he was considered the top talent.

[pimp]

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2 Former Allstars for the 17th pick is not a good trade.

Yes i happy that we got Josh, but the 17th pick is not equal value to a 20pt scorer and the league leader in Blocked shots.We should have gotten a pick from Portland or a young player.

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both on the decline...what have they done recently? would u want them now?

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Doesn't matter what they did afterwards.

.At the time Ratliff was leading the nba in blocks, and SAR was a 19 and 9 pf.

Sar and Theo combined were worth more than 1 mid first

round pick.

[AtLaS]

PHX traded that 1st rounder for a box of kleenexes to patch up Nash's nose in the playoffs.

[exodus]

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why do we not see any context

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I agree that YOU don't see any context. I see it just fine.

I was replying to someone who claimed that BK should be commended for not drafting a bust, although many would disagree.

However it is much less likely for a GM to draft a bust when they have consistently higher picks than than any GM in the league.

This is the context which is somehow invisible to you even though it is very obvious to me.

[Sothron]

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Come on...BK has had to deal with THE WORST ownership situation in the league...all things considered I think he's done a damn good job...

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The ownership has nothing to do with BK's nimwitted drafting.

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We have a winner. In every draft expect this last one Knight has went out of his way to take the less talented or less needed player.

[djcorley]

I don't think his drafting has been that bad...although you could argue with the spots he chose the players in...Everyone of his picks are good players and couple of them have a chance to be better then good..

More then you can say for alot of other GM's who draft Bust after Bust after Bust.

[AnakinJoe]

Please tell me the high quality center that we didn't draft in 2003-2007? And please, I beg you, tell me Patrick O'Bryant from 2006 or any of the projects drafted the past few years by Seattle. I'd take the 22 (or 23) year-old Zaza over any one of those pine-riders.

[Guest Walter]

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And W... ex... ya know, most of those who demosntrate a more reasoned approach to BK have gotten that way b/c they show a capacity to evaluate him in context.

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You have got to be kidding me. What context exactly justifies the GM with the worst record in NBA history and his having hired two of the losingest coaches in the NBA? Other GMs don't have track records but BK's is HORRIBLE. I haven't seen a team with more draft capitol than this year's Atlanta Hawks. Next year's pick (already mortgaged), #2, #3, #5, #6, #11, #17, #21 (traded Diaw), conditional Philly 1st... Phew!

You can't be a proponent of BK's on the basis of talent procurement. He got the least talented player remotely considered in the lottery for THREE CONSECUTIVE YEARS!

You can't be a proponent of BK on the basis of positional needs. He passed over franchise Pgs, has no pure center, and the team has count 'em FIVE lottery prospect forwards vying for PT at 2.5 positions (Sf, Pf, and .25 each of SG - Chill and C Horford/SW). SW and Horford are redundant and play the same position JS does. MW and JC and JS could all play SF

You can't be a proponent of BK on the basis of skill procurement. Our team still lacks considerable skill.

You can't be a proponent of BK on the basis of team building. You don't win with two adjacent, undersized post players.

You can't be a proponent of BK on the basis of shrewdness. Eh, hem. Promise to SW.

You can't be a proponent of BK on the basis of coaching talent evaluation. Eh hem, Lowe and Woodson.

You can't be a proponent of BK on the basis of PR. Do I need to expound on this one.

Maybe if "in context" meant a bunch of homeless joes or blind monkey's BK would win something, but there is no affirmative argument for why BK isn't one of the NBA's worst GMs.

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You both are obviously intelligent people... if you want to "win friends and influence people" so-to-speak, you're going to have to come off as if you recognize the other side of the ledger.

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I posted a "10 things I like about BK" thread last year in which I asked everyone to cite 10 things they did or didn't like about him relative to whether they didn't or did like hsi job performance respectively. I was able to come up with 10 things, certainly. Unfortunately the impact of those ten things was small. The highlight? The signing of ZaZa, while very good, isn't anywhere near as important as getting the lottery picks right and the specifics of the trade for JJ, something I have always supported, was dubious given the pick we (almost gave up and) will give up.

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Ex, for example, citing your latest post here...why do we not see any context in your post acknowledging the context under which BK has made those lottery choices? Is it that you truly haven't taken the time to think about it, or is it accurate to say you're ignoring it? To be considered reasonable, one must be willing to acknowledge EVEN the points that run counter to your argument.

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context in context...Hmm. I'm not sure what context would justify picking the WORST of 3 remotely considered prospects 3 years in a row, missing out on a franchise Pg, and passing on 2 consecutive ROY. Did BK stick pins in his eyes? What context caused him to get it so wrong, so much, so consecutively?

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My .02.

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I never heard your top 10 things BK has done wrong or that you do not approve of. It would demonstrate that you are seeing things "in context".

W

[AtLaS]

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More then you can say for alot of other GM's who draft Bust after Bust after Bust.

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So who exactly are you referring to here?

[pimp]

There were no good centers there, unless you trade down for Bynum . But were PGs there right? We had 2 major needs pg and center.Why not take a pg?

In 2005 we had Harrington, Diaw, J.Smith, Donta Smith, and Childress.

What makes more sense for the Hawks? Paul/Deron/Felton or another foward.