ATL Fans need to learn"Due Process" ...Vick.....?

[D.R.P.]

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Either he is guilty as hell or he is stupid as hell.

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Exactly.

And the "guilty until proven innocent" standard only applies in regards to getting convicted. That standard doesn't apply in regards to having an opinion on the case.

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There is no problem with you having an opinion that he's guilty; its the people who act like Vick has aleardy been convicted that makes no sense. The "Mouth from Philli", Steven A. Smith, summed it up best when he said, "It's okay for people to have an opinion that Vick is guilty; it's the people that want to convict him after only hearing one side that dosen't make sense. If Vick is guilty they will get him, what's the rush to convict him before trial".

[exodus]

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Either he is guilty as hell or he is stupid as hell.

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Exactly.

And the "guilty until proven innocent" standard only applies in regards to getting convicted. That standard doesn't apply in regards to having an opinion on the case.

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There is no problem with you having an opinion that he's guilty; its the people who act like Vick has aleardy been convicted that makes no sense. The "Mouth from Philli", Steven A. Smith, summed it up best when he said, "It's okay for people to have an opinion that Vick is guilty; it's the people that want to convict him after only hearing one side that dosen't make sense. If Vick is guilty they will get him, what's the rush to convict him before trial".

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Changing the subject here i just got off the phone with a friend of mine who is a prosecutor. His said Vicks main problem isn't even the federal indictment. He says the real problem is that the state of Va is going to go after Vick after the Feds get done with him and the state penalties are apparently tougher.

[Eddielives]

Drp, you are a thug. You respond to my points with hate. Nothing meaningful has come out of your posts yet. Nobody, including myself, who thinks Vick is guilty has said he doesn't deserve his due process. You cuss and call me names like a child who needs a spanking. You are just like Vick. That's why you defend him. You're full of hate and you have a racial chip on your shoulder. Wouldn't surprise me if you're a member of the black panthers. So have fun calling me names and hating everyone who you can't hold an intellectual discussion with. It's all you've got and I pity you.

[gsuteke]

[hawkman]

To be fair, he was not flipping off the "fans" like most media outlets said. He was being heckled after a tough loss by a few rude fans and he let his emotions get the better of him. Smoove pretty much did the same thing and I didn't remember there being that much hoopla about that. I think we all know the real reason why so many hate Vick and I'm tired of it. I understand some of the outrage but some of the comments that I've been reading in the AJC and some forums are kind of disturbing. I've never read so many racist comments. I never really thought that Atlanta was that bad about that kind of thing. I always looked at it as the place where people of color lived in relative affluence compared to their Southern counterparts. To want to see him face justice if he's guilty is one thing, but to use this indictment to vent racist views is quite another. The people who are doing this now and claim they aren't better not say one negative word if DJ Shockley becomes our next quarterback.

[D.R.P.]

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Drp, you are a thug. You respond to my points with hate. Nothing meaningful has come out of your posts yet. Nobody, including myself, who thinks Vick is guilty has said he doesn't deserve his due process. You cuss and call me names like a child who needs a spanking. You are just like Vick. That's why you defend him. You're full of hate and you have a racial chip on your shoulder. Wouldn't surprise me if you're a member of the black panthers. So have fun calling me names and hating everyone who you can't hold an intellectual discussion with. It's all you've got and I pity you.

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Wow, me a thug I've never heard that one before; that's quite humorous. I apologize, I didn't know it would be so easy to hurt your feeling; have you ever heard the phrase "sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me". I've got to print your post out and show it to many of my white friends they would find it to be quite hilarious. The same friends I've gone out to eat with, been invited or have been to their houses. Why are you bringing up race in regards to the Vick case; it has nothing I mean absolutely nothing to do with race. That shows your true feelings of hate towards him is due to his race. Your the type of person who would not help a person who does not speak clean English if they asked you for directions. You would turn up your nose at that person because they are different, while I on the other hand would try my best and patiently help that person. It's ashame that you hate people just because of their differences; while I embrace people differences.

Please look up the true definition of the word thug, "just because you may have heard a Tupac song or two in your life doesn't mean you know the definition of the word thug; it's amazing how often that word is used out of context when racism is involved. If I was a thug would I really have been on a jury not once but twice? Would I have recently been invited to become a member of the the county's sheriff association if I was a thug; I don't think so. I am an extremely high character person otherwise I would not have the job that I have; I deal with highly confidential information everyday; how about yourself. Let me just say your most likely paying a little bit of my salary. I don't drink or smoke and I've never done an illegal drug a day in my life. Please get out of your own little world, where your only around people who are just like you, get out and mingle with different people of race, color and ethnic groups; their is a good chance you would learn something new. It's people like you who give this country such a bad reputation because you don't care to learn about different cultures of people, because your afraid of what you don't know. Maybe I need to send you on a trip somewhere to experience some new things.

[D.R.P.]

Actually Vick wasn't even flippin the finger to a Falcon fan, it's been reported that it was a Saint's fan that was giving Rodney White a hard time; he was actually defending a teammate but of course you would never read that in the AJC. It does not excuse him from flipping off the fan, but it wasn't a Falcon fan. Also during bottlegate it was never reported by the AJC that Vick had over 100,000 dollars worth of jewelry stolen at an airport before; it took former Falcon beat writer and current ESPN scribe Len Pasquarelli to report that bit of information. Then when Vick described what happened, the AJC reported that the investigators had never heard of Vick using the bottle to hide his jewelry. Well of course they never heard about Vick using the bottle to hide jewelry because THEY NEVER QUESTIONED HIM. It's ashame that people can't see when the media is not giving them the whole truth; I'm so glad I had a course on how the media works during college, because I can see how the media manipulates things from time to time and only reports certain details of a story.

[Eddielives]

Never mind, I get it now. I should have read your posts more carefully. You are a professional at defending lies(and being a hypocrite). You are a lawyer, work for one or are studying to be one. Forget everything I said as you are just doing what you have been trained to do. Defending those that you know might be guilty as hell. Carry on. (by the way I think criminal defense attornies do a great service)

[D.R.P.]

Actually I have nothing to do with defending criminals; I have a good conscious.

[Buzzard]

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If Vick is guilty they will get him, what's the rush to convict him before trial

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Correct me if I am wrong but I do not think I can convict him. We have a right to our opinion as you stated and the above statement is a physical impossibility. You realize that now...right?

Or is there some alternate universe you and the philly mouth live in, were sports fans can act as federal judge and jury without an appointment or selection?

[chillzatl]

you had hundreds of people protesting them. You had these old broads up there working themselves into a frenzy, saying "we can't continue to let these boys think they can treat us like animals because they're athletes". What did it amount to? Nothing. There was nothing there. They screamed and argued with such passion over something that never happened.

It goes to show how small minded people need direction. They need things like this to feel a part of something, to give their days meaning.

If Vick thinks he can play without this being a distraction for him, then he should play. The league has no right to suspend him, yet. As I've said all along, if they suspend him, I hope he sues them. The commissioner is making up the rules as he goes and then going back and changing them after the fact to suit his whims. He's begging to be sued and I think Vick would win easily.

[BigDirty]

Are those people like people that blamed the french for wrongly accusing a US rider for doping eventhough the french were to be proved absolutely right?

The Duke Lacrosse was NOTHING like this case. In the Duke case you basically had a girl saying 'they raped me' and that was basically all the evidence. Here you have multiple people saying Vick was involved, you have Vick's house that was involved, you have dead dogs on Vick's property that were involved, etc., so there is actual evidence. But who knows maybe that evidence is all faked by the french who are jealous that they were never in the Conference finals.

[Admin]

The charges against Vick are pretty substantial and certainly give the NFL a huge black eye with a group of people whom as far as I can recall they have never looked bad with and that's with animal lovers (like myself). Can you imagine being charged for a crime as someone that could potentially cost the company you work for a lot of money in lost sales and not being at least suspended but more than likely fired for it?

For example, if you get a DUI there is a very good chance that you are going to lose your job. In the military you could lose a month or more of pay and have to do all kinds of extra duty or potentially even be dishonorably discharged for it. I could argue all day long that what Vick did is at least as bad if not significantly worse.

It is human nature to convict someone of a crime before official judgment has been made. It is even more common now because stars get preferential treatment and have ways of getting off from their crime because of their money and status. The OJ trial really brought that to light.

[Traceman]

mean that they SHOULD have done it. To me, this goes beyond just the Vick situation and it sets up a slippery slope for the Commissioner. Basically, it sets up a situation that anyone who is formally accused of a crime FOR THE FIRST TIME will be facing a suspension. Perhaps the Commissioner can limit that to only FELONY indictments but that is still an issue in my opinion.

I think the allegations against Vick are heinous but comparing his situation to the situations of Pacman Jones and Chris Henry is not appropriate due to the MULTIPLE times that they have been involved in alleged criminal misconduct.

With regard to the OJ trial, it is interesting to me that many people not of African-American descent see that trial as an "eye-opener" regarding the ability of people with money or notoriety to "get off" when they commit crimes. From my perspective, people with money and notoriety had been "getting off" for centuries. To me, the trial demonstrated to non African-Americans how it feels to see a person who is CLEARLY guilty be acquitted. My personal opinion is that the OJ jury verdict was a political statement rather than an actual belief that OJ was not guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

[Admin]

If this was the first time that Vick had made himself, his team, and the league look bad then yes I would say this is a rush to judgment. However he has had multiple incidents where he has clearly done something that was at the very least stupid and certainly damaging to his rep, the team, and the league. It's not like this is someone like golden boys Tom Brady or Marshall Faulk getting indicted for the charges against Vick and being suspended. Those guys have squeaky clean images in the publics eye unlike Vick who has looked bad in one way or another going back to Va Tech.

As for the OJ thing lets be honest here OJ was a highly accepted African American among white people for a long time so I don't think that we (as white people) saw this as a race trial. I think we saw it much more so as a star athlete getting off because of his fame and money and ability to hire a great attorney. I think that it was much more eye opening in that regard because at least in my lifetime he was the first star athlete to be accused of something like this and even more so because most people believe he is guilty.

[hawkman]

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If this was the first time that Vick had made himself, his team, and the league look bad then yes I would say this is a rush to judgment. However he has had multiple incidents where he has clearly done something that was at the very least stupid and certainly damaging to his rep, the team, and the league. It's not like this is someone like golden boys Tom Brady or Marshall Faulk getting indicted for the charges against Vick and being suspended. Those guys have squeaky clean images in the publics eye unlike Vick who has looked bad in one way or another going back to Va Tech.

As for the OJ thing lets be honest here OJ was a highly accepted African American among white people for a long time so I don't think that we (as white people) saw this as a race trial. I think we saw it much more so as a star athlete getting off because of his fame and money and ability to hire a great attorney. I think that it was much more eye opening in that regard because at least in my lifetime he was the first star athlete to be accused of something like this and even more so because most people believe he is guilty.

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You don't think that white people saw the OJ trial as a race trial? REALLY??? That trial had to be one of the most raciallly divisive trials that I've ever seen in my relatively young life. They did a special on HBO about the racial implications of that trial. They even went so far as to show how reactions to the verdict differed from one race to another. That you can say that whites didn't see that case as a race trial baffles me! But that is your opinion and I respect that. In fact, your opinion shows that you have a level of objectivity that's rare today. I wish everyone was that objective. Then I wouldn't be reading and hearing such hateful and biased things from the media and some of the forums I frequent. The people who say these things only seem to come out of the woodwork when something bad happens. Not only is EVERY person of color already guilty BEFORE all of the facts come out but he should be punished to the fullest extent of the law, and then some. That's what I'm tired of. We don't know all of the facts about the Vick case yet. We've only heard one side. Why not hear both sides before passing judgement?

[Admin]

I should have been a little more clear. There is no doubt that people saw race involved in the trial as it was an African American man accused of murdering his white wife. However, what I think has been the lasting impression from the trial and verdict isn't that an African American man got off but that a star athlete with money got off. At least that is how I see it. I have never been one to see race as something that defines someone though so maybe I am skewed in that regard.

[Traceman]

was the result of jurors trying to send a message rather than them actually believing that OJ was not guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. Based on your post, if the jurors were indeed trying to send a message, I don't think that you got it. That is not necessarily a bad thing as it indicates that you were not looking at race as a factor in the case. If more people thought like you do, I think race would be less of an issue in this country.

[exodus]

For me race was a factor in the trial more on a personal level. I really felt a major disconnect between myself and black friends i had based on race that i really hadn't felt to such a degree before. My view as a white person and their views as black people were completely different and race was the obvious reason.

Incidently my cousin is currently dating a girl who is a CSI and was part of the group handling the DNA evidence during the OJ trial. She said much of the evidence was deemed inadmissable in court but it clearly showed OJ's guilt.

[AHF]

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To me, this goes beyond just the Vick situation and it sets up a slippery slope for the Commissioner. Basically, it sets up a situation that anyone who is formally accused of a crime FOR THE FIRST TIME will be facing a suspension. Perhaps the Commissioner can limit that to only FELONY indictments but that is still an issue in my opinion.

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Bear in mind that Vick has not been suspended. He was scheduled to miss the first day of training camp and was told not to show up at all. This doesn't impact his pay in the slightest unlike a suspension where the player loses that money.

Based on the seriousness of the charges, the fact that Vick could not show up for the opening of camp (which subjects him to discipline under the CBA), the fact that the season hasn't started, and the fact that Vick's pay is untouched, I think this is not going to be a significant precedent. Bear in mind that the Falcons have another player on the roster accused of animal cruelty who is playing in camp.