What say you?

[TheTruth]

Ok, this is going to be kind of long...

Some have begun to note Josh Smith's wild inconsistency ever since the All-Star break. Before I proceed, I will say that I love Josh Smith to death, but his future with the Atlanta Hawks, to the chagrin of many, is very much uncertain.

Josh Smith is a game-changer. When he is playing within himself, he blocks shots, scores efficiently, plays around the basket, and rebounds well. He also defends the paint at a good clip. However, he can be turnover-prone, select terrible shots, let's his man blow by him so he can go for the block, man the perimeter too much, and sometimes doesn't seem to have his head in the game. By all accounts, he is a Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde.

For all of that, we have a 6'9 PF who averages 17.1 pts, 8.2 rbs, 3.4 assists, 2.9 blocks, and 1.5 steals a game for a kid who is only 22! He is the very definition of a "do it all" type player. I guess you wouldn't know that he is shooting a much improved 45.2% on the year. He also allows less points when he is on the floor compared to when he is not. As good as that is, he is doing it all with a nonexistant head coach who does not know how to maximally utilize his players. Josh Smith is as good as he is, in large part, because he works his ass off with HOFers like Olajuwon and others during the offseason. The kid clearly wants to better his game.

However, with his gifts, comes those gag presents you return after Christmas every year. It appears as though he doesnt listen to Woodson very much (altho Woodson doesnt really command respect from many), he continues to shoot those long jumpers, can be wild on the court with his play, does not play good man defense, and can go from 20 pts, 12 rebounds, 4 blocks, 2 TOs, on 8-14 shooting one night, to 10 pts, 6 rebounds, 3 blocks, 4 TOs, on 2-10 shooting the next. This brings me to another issue:

Josh Smith will be a restricted free agent in the offseason. Fact. He WILL be paid near max money--the only question is "By Whom?" Do you know the biggest reason why Smith might be let go this offseason? Think...Money? Inconsistency? Can't afford? Attitude? Nope...

AL HORFORD

Early this season, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Period. Al Horford is quickly turning into the player that every single coach wishes he had. He never complains about playing Center, doesnt ask BK for anything, goes out there and hustles every night, plays hard but is deeply concerned when his play adversely affects others (read up on the story on how humble and genuine Horfy was when he stayed over at the hospital when he unintentionally caused Ford to be rushed to the hospital after a hard foul), and is putting up double doubles while playing out of position, against stronger and taller guys, and as a damn ROOKIE. Horford knows about the rookie wall, but I assure you the rookie wall doesnt know who Horford is. Unlike most rookies, Horford never became well-acquainted with it. My sources have confirmed that they never slept together...the rookie wall was last seen trying to serenade Horford outside his Florida residence with a guitar and some cheesy love song, but Horford soon placed a restraining order on it after neighbors complained of def-tone singing and blood-boiling sounds from all who heard. My sources go on to say that the "rookie wall" isn't to come close to Horford within the next several seasons.

Point is, Horford is a bona fide PF playing at Center because he has to. I guarantee the decision to keep Smith will all boil down to one thing:

Is Horford going to develop into an AWESOME PF? If so, we need to make room so he can start.

Or:

With his great play at Center all year, and it's only going to get better after he likely adds some bulk and strength during the offseason, will keeping him at Center and developing him there be easier for the team to afford (it's not like real/traditional Centers are just crawling around the NBA now) and grab a Diop-like player to play backup C for 15-20 mins a game while allowing Horford 10-15 mins a game at PF?

That is what it will boil down to. If we go option 1, Smoove HAS to be moved. Smoove is a natural 4. As long as Smoove is here, Horford cant start at the 4 (moving Smith to the 3 would likely be a disaster in the near term). We need help inside and a real defensive presence. Smoove would have to be traded for a Center...like Beidrins. With Smoove's upside, playmaking ability, and do-it-allness, it could be a deal that gets us over the hump.

Here is what Biedrins is making this year: $2,636,696

And Smoove: $2,636,696

Again, I love Smith. With a real coach here, I think his TOs will go down and his BBIQ will go up. But adding a Biedrins-type player could be the shot in the arm for these young Hawks. They would have an emerging Horford at his natural position beating up on smaller guys, Biedrins will be in the middle (he averages a near double-double), and of course you have Marv at the 3, JJ mans the 2, with Bibby running the show.

As I said, it really depends on how much they think Horford can play PF. If they think he will be an All Star at PF, Smoove will go and a full time Center (he MUST be defensive-oriented) will have to come in. If not, they will re-sign him, play a bulked up Horford at the 5, and roll with that.

It's funny because the way I see it, Horford is the one that is quietly pushing Smoove out the door (at no fault of his own). I don't think ANYONE knew Horford was going to take over LIKE THIS. And he will ONLY get better.

What you think?

[thefloydian]

I think Horford can play the center. I mean, look what he's doing this year. He's bound to get stronger add to his game in the next few years, and I just can't see getting rid of Smith for someone like Biendris. If we could get some kind of big time center I'd be all for it, but the chances of that are slim to none.

I'd rather just get a legitimate backup center and let Horford play some power forward minutes.

[exodus]

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Here is what Biedrins is making this year: $2,636,696

And Smoove: $2,636,696

That is irrelevant since they will both be RFA's after this season.

I can't endorse the trade because there is a big talent dropoff. However i can see it happening given Smiths lack of BBall IQ and our need for a center.

Plus Nellie doesn't seem to care much for centers and Smith would be perfect for them because they already have a bunch of shooters. Harrington actually spends half his time at center so obviously Nellie doesn't value size at the position.

[TheTruth]

Yes I know about the salaries. It was just for comparison's sake.

And yes, I too believe he can play Center. However, my post was just an argument for both sides as a "What Would You Do?" sort of thing.

[vdunkndunk]

I'm one of those people who love Josh Smith but wouldn't mind trading him, especially since we have Horford. If we could trade Smoove for Biedrins, for instance, I'd really have to think about it, but I don't believe it's a perfect solution. I really wish we could have gone after Gasol; that's what we need, a guy who can draw a double team in the post. Biedrins would probably improve our rebounding over Smoove, but he would probably score a slight bit less (but with more efficiency) and block less shots. I also think Smoove has better upside but also more risk, but Biedrins has some upside too. Basically, I'm just really confused about this issue.

[coachx]

I want to resign Smith and see him continue to develop with a coach like Larry Brown.

Sign the best FA Center we can get (even if it means Chills walks in FA). It will take over bidding to get one, but we need a center who can defend to complete the team.

Roll with the same starting front court ( all should continue to improve with another year of natural maturity) and hopefully a Diop or even Wilcox off the bench with ZaZa. If Chills walks it puts the pressure on Marvin to be consistent and opens up some playing time for the experiment of Smith - SF / Horford - PF / C, during parts of games.

[Johnnybravo4]

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I want to resign Smith and see him continue to develop with a coach like Larry Brown.

Sign the best FA we can get (even if it means Chills walks in FA). It will take over bidding to get one, but we need a center who can defend to complete the team.

Roll with the same starting front court ( all should continue to improve with another year of natural maturity) and hopefully a Diop or even Wilcox off the bench with ZaZa. If Chills walks it puts the pressure on Marvin to be consistent and opens up some playing time for the experiment of Smith - SF / Horford - PF / C, during parts of games.

This board seems obsessed with putting a white guy at center. Lets trade all stars and future multiple DPOY because he isn't a flawless player. It is this same thinking that had Phoenix let JJ and the Matrix go because they had the gall to have an independent thought on offense.

[macdaddy]

The Hawks are trying to get better AND build a fan base. Trading Smoove would be another blow for hawks fans. We need to build around JJ, Smoove, Horford. I can live with Smoove and Horford at 4 and 5. I'd like to see JJ at 3 and add a great shooter at 2.

[exodus]

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I want to resign Smith and see him continue to develop with a coach like Larry Brown.

Sign the best FA we can get (even if it means Chills walks in FA). It will take over bidding to get one, but we need a center who can defend to complete the team.

Roll with the same starting front court ( all should continue to improve with another year of natural maturity) and hopefully a Diop or even Wilcox off the bench with ZaZa. If Chills walks it puts the pressure on Marvin to be consistent and opens up some playing time for the experiment of Smith - SF / Horford - PF / C, during parts of games.

This board seems obsessed with putting a white guy at center. Lets trade all stars and future multiple DPOY because he isn't a flawless player. It is this same thinking that had Phoenix let JJ and the Matrix go because they had the gall to have an independent thought on offense.

WTF

[LOL_Hawks]

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The Hawks are trying to get better AND build a fan base. Trading Smoove would be another blow for hawks fans. We need to build around JJ, Smoove, Horford. I can live with Smoove and Horford at 4 and 5. I'd like to see JJ at 3 and add a great shooter at 2.

Agreed. We need a center too, but we have to build around those 3. Can't forget about Law once he comes into his own.

[JackB1]

This whole issue is very complicated because it depends on a number of things:

1) Who is out coach next year?

2) What Centers are available?

3) How much $$$ will it take to keep Josh Smith?

You HAVE to look at your team as a puzzle and how the pieces fit into the puzzle. Yes Smoove has tons of raw talent, but it's impossible to predict if he will improve or not. Horford could easily IMO get 15-20 pts per game playing as a #4. He will be facing smaller guys a lot of the time and I would assume, they would run more plays designed for him. If we could get a C that could beat Al's current offensive production at C (around 10 ppg and 10 rebs) and also ADD SIZE to that position, then it would be a WIN-WIN for us, because Al would match Smoove's current Stats if he moved to the #4.

I do think AL has more future potential at the #4 spot then Smoove does, mostly because of his on court smarts and work ethic/desire to win. This kid has focus like you wouldn't believe. Smoove shouldn't still be doing the things he still does in his 4th year( dribbling ot of control...bad turnovers....bad passes...taking long jumpers,etc).

In the end, if a high quality #5 is available, then I say go for it and trade Smoove. But if not, then keep things as is.

[Traceman]

Just another example of "The Man" trying to keep brothers down.

[exodus]

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Just another example of "The Man" trying to keep brothers down.

I guess my eyes must really be going bad. Off to the eye doctor i go.

[jhay610]

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This board seems obsessed with putting a white guy at center.

That's funny. Irrelevant and inaccurate, but funny.

Josh Smith is a stat-stuffer with a one-of-a-kind skill set. Sure, he has flaws, which have been discussed ad-nauseam on this board. He can do a lot of things that help you win ball games, though, and can impact a game definitively even when he's not scoring.

I don't see why we would trade a potential all-star that has not yet reached his prime for a run-of-the-mill post player just to fill a need. To me, that is a recipe for sustained mediocrity.

Let's build a roster that is similar to what everyone else has at the cost of overall talent level?

I don't think Horf has pushed Smith out of the door. His play has just made our personnel decisions more flexible, less linear. Sign me up for option 2, most definitely. A Diop type player is what we need; someone who can get 15-20 minutes a game. Defend the paint, rebound, cover our perimeter defensive mistakes with shot-blocking and size.

Basically someone to take over Zaza's role right now, except not look like a complete train-wreck (his better play of late notwithstanding) and actually be effective at it.

[TheTruth]

Some really good replies to this topic. I created it with the vision of getting everyone to understand just how important this offseason is going to be for the Hawks.

As for my own opinion? I have really come around to the fact that we need Smith here. He has not had a good coach to coach him up. A Larry Brown would be better able to do that, but as long as Woodson is here I sincerely doubt it. All we need is a quality DEFENSIVE-ORIENTED Center (because we dont defend the paint well at all) to backup Horford and play 15-20 mins a game. This will allow Horf to get about half his minutes at C and the other half at PF--which is ideal for now. That is what I would do.

I know that David Anderson guy is supposed to be coming over next year as a Center, but he is a relative softie from the reports I read. He's all about offense and little defense (kinda like Okur). So it will be interesting to see what happens.

[Iman]

I'd move Chillz for Biedrins, wouldn't do it for Marvin and definitely not Smoove. I just don't think Biedrins is that good. Players I'd realistically consider "moving" Smoove for includes Kaman. If Smoove is offered the max I might throw out and similar offer at Okafor or Brand and let Smoove go.

Other players I'd like to have are probably overvalued by their own teams, much as we probably overvalue Smoove. Like the Lakers Andrew Bynum, no way I'd give up Smoove for him even if he is the true center we need, I just feel the talent disparity is too great. I'm just guessing but moving Marvin, Chillz, Zaza will probably match up better in move we try to make.

[Joker]

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Ok, this is going to be kind of long...

Some have begun to note Josh Smith's wild inconsistency ever since the All-Star break. Before I proceed, I will say that I love Josh Smith to death, but his future with the Atlanta Hawks, to the chagrin of many, is very much uncertain.

nba's take: keep going

Josh Smith is a game-changer. When he is playing within himself, he blocks shots, scores efficiently, plays around the basket, and rebounds well. He also defends the paint at a good clip. However, he can be turnover-prone, select terrible shots, let's his man blow by him so he can go for the block, man the perimeter too much, and sometimes doesn't seem to have his head in the game. By all accounts, he is a Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde.

nba's take: Smith is a good and bad game changer. He really lives up to that billings, for better and for worst. When he playing within himself shouldn't even be a issue. He's a tweener, and that's his biggest problem with doing things he not capable and doing good at on a regular basis. Larry Brown would bench him, hell any good coach would bench him for what he does. He relies too much on his athletic abilites, needless to say he has more then almost anybody which is good. He doesn't have a killer argession, if he did he would have a top 5 pick no matter what. If he can just drive to the hoop and slam it on anyone I would have no problems with the kid.

For all of that, we have a 6'9 PF who averages 17.1 pts, 8.2 rbs, 3.4 assists, 2.9 blocks, and 1.5 steals a game for a kid who is only 22! He is the very definition of a "do it all" type player. I guess you wouldn't know that he is shooting a much improved 45.2% on the year. He also allows less points when he is on the floor compared to when he is not. As good as that is, he is doing it all with a nonexistant head coach who does not know how to maximally utilize his players. Josh Smith is as good as he is, in large part, because he works his ass off with HOFers like Olajuwon and others during the offseason. The kid clearly wants to better his game.

nba's take: He always going to put up stats, it's just the way he plays, see Shawn Marion. Age isn't as big of a deal becuase he not getting a lot better unless he goes to the right team. The rest sounds like a bunch of excuses for the kid.

However, with his gifts, comes those gag presents you return after Christmas every year. It appears as though he doesnt listen to Woodson very much (altho Woodson doesnt really command respect from many), he continues to shoot those long jumpers, can be wild on the court with his play, does not play good man defense, and can go from 20 pts, 12 rebounds, 4 blocks, 2 TOs, on 8-14 shooting one night, to 10 pts, 6 rebounds, 3 blocks, 4 TOs, on 2-10 shooting the next. This brings me to another issue:

nba's take: He does respect Woodson, hell he came out of HS to the pros and join a young team, not a shocker. He could change, but only around a different cast. Inconseiency is not my biggest problem with him for me( that's Marvin's) but IQ, desire. and selfishness is for Smith.

Josh Smith will be a restricted free agent in the offseason. Fact. He WILL be paid near max money--the only question is "By Whom?" Do you know the biggest reason why Smith might be let go this offseason? Think...Money? Inconsistency? Can't afford? Attitude? Nope...

nba's take: I say all of the above except inconsistency and add style that doesn't fit the team as well as potienial cancer. I see a much worst D- Hall in him for this team if he is re-sign. Smith is a Kenyon Martin type risk.

Nothing to say about Horford other then he's are best prospect and the only player deserving of a max deal when his time come saying if he stays healthy.

[Joker]

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The Hawks are trying to get better AND build a fan base. Trading Smoove would be another blow for hawks fans. We need to build around JJ, Smoove, Horford. I can live with Smoove and Horford at 4 and 5. I'd like to see JJ at 3 and add a great shooter at 2.

I never met a Hawk fan that looked a Josh Smith that way for real. To me he's like player people like, but he doesn't effect if they want to spend 65 dollars on a ticket or not. In fact no current Hawk does, maybe Horford in the future; but I doubt it.

[Joker]

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This board seems obsessed with putting a white guy at center.

That's funny. Irrelevant and inaccurate, but funny.

Josh Smith is a stat-stuffer with a one-of-a-kind skill set. Sure, he has flaws, which have been discussed ad-nauseam on this board. He can do a lot of things that help you win ball games, though, and can impact a game definitively even when he's not scoring.

I don't see why we would trade a potential all-star that has not yet reached his prime for a run-of-the-mill post player just to fill a need. To me, that is a recipe for sustained mediocrity.

Let's build a roster that is similar to what everyone else has at the cost of overall talent level?

I don't think Horf has pushed Smith out of the door. His play has just made our personnel decisions more flexible, less linear. Sign me up for option 2, most definitely. A Diop type player is what we need; someone who can get 15-20 minutes a game. Defend the paint, rebound, cover our perimeter defensive mistakes with shot-blocking and size.

Basically someone to take over Zaza's role right now, except not look like a complete train-wreck (his better play of late notwithstanding) and actually be effective at it.

Seriously, outside of the superstars.. how many stat-stuffers impacts the game?

[Joker]

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I'd move Chillz for Biedrins, wouldn't do it for Marvin and definitely not Smoove. I just don't think Biedrins is that good. Players I'd realistically consider "moving" Smoove for includes Kaman. If Smoove is offered the max I might throw out and similar offer at Okafor or Brand and let Smoove go.

Other players I'd like to have are probably overvalued by their own teams, much as we probably overvalue Smoove. Like the Lakers Andrew Bynum, no way I'd give up Smoove for him even if he is the true center we need, I just feel the talent disparity is too great. I'm just guessing but moving Marvin, Chillz, Zaza will probably match up better in move we try to make.

You really think GS is going to accept that, Chillz for one of the better Centers in the game. A 6th man for a potienial All Star... Keep dreamin.. lol Bynum being worth less to you then Smith... LMBAO, man you are trip... Seriously there is not one basketball mind who thinks Smith over Bynum, not one.