should Atlanta EVER live down choosing MW?

[WorldBFree]

Chris Paul's playoff debut: 35 points, 10 assists, 4 steals, ONE turnover. he'll finish in the top 3 in the MVP race (with a very legit argument as to why he should be the MVP).

as a Hawks fan, it KILLS me to watch him, and yet he's SO good, as a basketball fan, it's impossible not to watch and admire his play.

the post-hoc rationalizations (ATL stinking for another year allowed the Hawks to get Horford) don't really remove the bitter taste when you watch Paul...

[Gray Mule]

Hindsight is always 20-20. M. Jordan did not go @ #1. Imagine that!

MW isn't a bad player. Alomost everyone thought he should be the pick for Atlanta.

Yet, CP3 is precieved now as the player the Hawks passed on to draft MW.

Can any one honestly say that they knew CP3 would be the greatest NBA player

who ever lived, which most fans who point out our miss, seem to believe when they

reverently mention his name.

CP3 almost singlehandedly destroyed Dallas tonight. He was awesome! No doubt

about that.

No, fans will never forgive the Atlanta Hawks for passing on CP3 and they will

always bring it up when something like tonight happens. Then, for some reason,

MW will be pointed out as the reason CP3 is not a Hawk.

We shouldn't blame MW. It's not his fault. Yet, we do.

[FrankWhite]

Get over it.

[Admin]

What's funny is how selective the memory of a lot of people is concerning the 2005 draft. MOST people wanted Bogut but realized he wasn't available. MW was clearly the 2nd choice, Deron was probably the 3rd choice (he was actually my choice) and a lot of people felt that Felton would be a better PG than Paul because Paul wouldn't be able to defend in the NBA. Almost every mock draft had Bogut/Marvin going 1/2 in some order and yet people trash the Hawks time and again for passing on Paul. Has Marvin become the player we all thought or hoped he would? Of course not, but he is much closer to being that player than Paul is to the player we all thought he would be.

[WorldBFree]

while Marvin was listed on many draft boards as one of the top 2-3 players, ATL was expected to fill its PG needs by many. the fact that that the next two picks were PGs - D Williams then C Paul - is fairly strong evidence that the top two PGs were also considered among the best players. this isn't a case of some 2nd roundc choice proving everyone wrong. in the days before the draft, there were plenty of people - on ESPN, etc - saying ATL should choose a PG to fill the obvious need. this wasn't after-the-fact. it was before and during the draft.

what i don't get from your post is the last two sentences: "Has Marvin become the player we all thought or hoped he would? Of course not, but he is much closer to being that player than Paul is to the player we all thought he would be."

huh? if the consensus was that MW was the 2nd best choice (after Bogut), how can it be that he's "closer to being what was expected" than Paul? shouldn't he further along than he is given how he was projected? and as i noted, Paul wasn't considered chopped-liver. he was the 4th overall choice, not some late pick who shocked everyone.

the following is from ESPN's 2005 Draft coverage:

"The Hornets are the big winners early on in the draft. They get an elite point guard at No. 4..."

this isn't a review years later. it's the day after the draft.

[Plainview1981]

It doesn't matter who the people on this board would have selected. The people on this board aren't getting paid to make the correct selections. Billy Knight is.

[Admin]

Go find some mock drafts from that time where Paul was expected to be the 2nd pick. You might find a few, but the vast majority had Bogut and Marvin as the consensus top two choices and Marvin was almost unanimously predicted to be the best player in 3-5 years. You weren't a member here at the time but I can assure you that people were all over the board about who they wanted but there was certainly not a large percentage of people calling for Paul over Marvin and not even over Deron. Deron was definitely the favorite PG of the Squawk and it was a toss up between Paul and Felton here.

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huh? if the consensus was that MW was the 2nd best choice (after Bogut), how can it be that he's "closer to being what was expected" than Paul?

It means that Paul is significantly better than what most expected of him. Marvin is not as good as was expected but surely not as far below expectations as Paul is above expectations.

[Admin]

Of course not and this is not me saying Knight should be given a pass for missing on Paul and Deron, I just find it funny that the same people (here) who slam the Hawks for not taking Paul are the same ones who were NOT in the Paul camp at draft time.

[WorldBFree]

unfortunately, the fact that he's exceeded expectations as the #4 pick doesn't make it any easier watching him play so well.

it's not Marvin's fault. but like many draft-day stories, he will always be compared to the PGs that went next in terms of his production and contribution to his team's success.

#2 picks kinda have to be stars to justify where they were picked. may not be fair, but it's what happens.

[Admin]

Agreed, I love watching Paul and Deron play but I will always regret that they aren't the PG of the Hawks. Nothing short of the Hawks winning the title with Marvin playing a huge part will ever help to justify the pick, but if there is any consolation at least Marvin isn't a bust and has gotten better every year. I'm not in the "Woodson doesn't develop young talent" camp but if he is fired this offseason let's hope that is the case for why Marvin hasn't developed as fast as we thought he would.

[Seano]

I think the only way to ever live it down is to have Marvin keep progressing to the point where he would play a big role in leading us to a championship. I mean look at Darko Milicic, who currently is about 10X as big a bust as Marvin is, and Darko was chosen 2nd too, immediately ahead of Carmelo Anthony, Chris Bosh, and Dwayne Wade. But yet you never really hear the Pistons getting any crap for selecting Darko, because the very next year they went out and won the NBA Finals.....and that's really a great way and possibly the only way to shut up all your critics. And it's not like Darko helped them win that championship- he was pretty much a total non-factor that season and that playoff run. But the Pistons were able to win it all despite blowing a #2 pick like that- so everybody seemed to forgive and forget. It really didn't even matter that he busted so badly, because they won and they continue to be a winning team in spite of that.

[TruJerz]

honestly, I dont think anyone thought CP3 was gonna be THIS good..by that I mean the best PG in the NBA in 3 yrs! MW isnt that bad but of course he isnt no CP3 or Deron Williams. but you just gotta get over it man and deal with what you got..for now, lets just talk playoffs..be happy that we're hear and hope that MW shows us something

[DieHardHAWK]

Who cares about what could of been. There is nothing we can do to change that now. I like Marvin. I hope he steps up and drops that money jumpshot and grabs rebounds throughout the entire playoffs. I wish him the best

[Cwell]

I'm tired of hearing about this and i'm one of the few that wanted Paul back then and that's because I didn't know who the others were.I never saw a Utah game or wherever Bogut is from.Marvin was a frickin backup that never did anything,he never jumped out as a future superstar.Deron was pretty good but I never thought he'd be this good,that could be because of Dee Brown and Luther Head playing in the backcourt with him.Dee was more flashy and Head was the 3 point specialist.I saw alot of Wake Forest games and I knew Paul would be a superstar and I knew we needed a PG.Ever since then i've wanted a PG in every draft.If I was GM I would have taken Marcus Williams instead of Shelden (I would have been off).and this year I would have taken Conley but now i'm fine with Horford and Law.Law surprised me with his game.I thought he was just an undersized SG but I think he'll be a great PG in this league in a little bit.

[Final_quest]

There was more than one team that passed on CP3. Portland traded down to get Martell Webster!!!!! Milwaukee picked Bogut. Still the Hawks are saddled with the label of passing on Paul, and we will not live it down ever. In the NBA the team with the best player is more likely to win. Passing on a superstar is more costly in the NBA, and therefore more memorable. How long have people been talking about Portland passing on MJ?

The truth is we passed on a superstar that could have made our franchise for years, and the only thing that will alleviate that is winning.

[Cwell]

Milwaukee didn't need a PG,but would love a superstar.It wasn't about superstar status.It was just the fact we needed a PG bad as hell,yet we took a SF while we already had Harrington,Donta Smith and the year before took 2 in Childess and Smith who both had good rookie years.Milwaukee had TJ Ford and Maurice Williams at the time.NO needed a PG to replace Baron and took him.Utah needed a PG to replace STockton and took one.We needed a PG to replace a guy that left years ago and we took a damn SF.The year after we still needed a PG and we took a damn stiff PF that we reached like hell to get.The year after that we still needed a PG and we took another damn PF(that happened to be a beast) and used the 11 th pick on PG and never played him.

[pimp]

They don't say anything about the Bucks or Blazers because they didn't need a pg as bad as us.The Bucks had TJ ford and Mo Williams, and The Blazer had just drafted Telfair straight out of highschool the year before. We needed a pg more than anyone else, and needed a sf the least.

During the draft alot of people here wanted Marvin , but before the season ended nobody was talking about him.All the draft talk here was about Paul, Deron, and Bogut.

It think alot people here wanted Paul until he kicked that guy in the nuts during a game.

[AnakinJoe]

I heard Skip Prosser say that even he was surprised how well Paul played in his rookie season, and he was Paul's college coach. Deron was the more "logical" selection than Paul for this team, because of his size and scouts thought that he would have been a better defender than Paul. IMHO, saying that we should have taken Paul over Deron is truly using 20/20 hindsight. If you really wanted to take a PG over the clear #2 talent, then Deron would have been the most sensible selection.

And I doubt that Utah fans spend much time on this issue, not when Deron took them to the conference finals last season and will likely go deeper this year than Paul. Deron may never be an MVP candidate, but his team may continue to enjoy more successs and isn't that the point?

[Jody79]

I'm a hawks fan and yet, I think that should be criticized more for the decision they made to take Marvin over Chris Paul. The decision was EXTREMELY QUESTIONABLE at best. To begin with, you drafted two guys the year before who played the small forward position. They wanted to say Josh Childress was a two guard, fine. But, Josh Smith came straight outta high school and did an EXCELLENT JOB playing that position his rookie year and was clearly the future at that position. To turnaround and draft another small forward with that high of pick showed an utter lack of appreciation for what Josh did his rookie year and a lack of confidence in his ability to get better.

Secondly, Chris Paul PROVED himself the best point guard for three years in the ACC. He came in and gave the hawks HIS BEST WORKOUT and even publicly made it known that he was PRAYING for the hawks to take him. On top of that, the hawks needed a point guard so bad, it was even funny.

For those reasons alone, the hawks will continue to be criticized for such a poor decision. It's not Marvin's fault, but managements. I think Billy Knight's supposed comments about moving Josh Smith to the 3 and moving Marvin to the bench if they get a decent center next year is an admitance that he made a very poor decision there. But hey, we all make mistakes. However, we have to deal with the fallout when we do and especially when we make ones that fly in the face of common sense. That's the way it is.

[AtLaS]

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I'm a hawks fan and yet, I think that should be criticized more for the decision they made to take Marvin over Chris Paul. The decision was EXTREMELY QUESTIONABLE at best. To begin with, you drafted two guys the year before who played the small forward position. They wanted to say Josh Childress was a two guard, fine. But, Josh Smith came straight outta high school and did an EXCELLENT JOB playing that position his rookie year and was clearly the future at that position. To turnaround and draft another small forward with that high of pick showed an utter lack of appreciation for what Josh did his rookie year and a lack of confidence in his ability to get better.

Don't forget Diaw who was a first rounder the year before and we also had Al Harrington on the roster. Considering how unproven Marvin was, didn't start, losing high school team, and choking in the NCAA Tourney I honestly don't know what BK was thinking.

I'll probably never get past this pick.