Who here has expectations for Marvin?

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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Perhaps you need to do more research. We were 17th in the league for Home 3pt% and 14th in the league away from home.

Who deemed midranged shooting as not important, you ? Kobe Bryant, Allen Iverson, Dwayne Wade, Joe Johnson, Rip Hamilton, Mike Redd, Dirk Nowitzki, Kevin Martin etc. all use the midrange game heavily. Like I said, all big time scorers barring bigs use the midrange game, because in today's game defenders are much better. Which means they can't always shoot the 3 or take the ball to the hoop. Enter the pull-up jumpshot.

LeBron James is the only player I can think of who doesn't use the midrange game to score, and that's because hes an athletic freak of nature.

And look this about LeBron.

When you look at the breakdown of his shooting, he shot a 39.9% eFG% on his jumpshot.

All of those 3s he took and made, and he shot a lesser % on his jumper than Marvin did.

What's the one thing that Jackson nd VanGundy always begged LeBron to do on those NBA broadcasts? TAKE THE BALL TO THE HOLE.

Yet, LeBron would settle, and miss jumpers, and cause his team to lose playoff games.

As a player, you MUST play to your strengths. If Smith did that, he'd surely have a max contract already in his hands right now.

Like I said. If Marvin becomes a better finisher on the inside, while continuing to be money with that 18 - 22 foot jumper, he'll be a very efficient offensive player for this team. The last thing we need is for Marvin to start jacking up 4 threes a game, just to get 1 make. Because players who are sub 35% shooters from 3, tend to be very streaky. They'll shoot 35%, but they'll go 1 - 4, 4 - 5, 0 - 3, 2 - 6, and 0 - 2 in the process.

[Guest]

Such an angry guy, I imagine this has something to do with last week's hissyfit.

I expect a slight increase in his raw statistics and roughly the same % for FG and FT. If he shoots more than 50 3s next year I expect him to be significantly better than his 1st year 3pt% (it was .250), probably .300-.350. The best predictor of future production is past production. I don't think we are going to get a huge jump in Points, Rebounds, Assists, Steals...and I imagine he will shoot the same percentage (within .015). Those are my expectations, they will be roughly the same for everyone else on this team with the exception of Acie and Speedy. Those two are injury-prone and thus much harder to predict.

[mrhonline]

One thing's for sure - this isn't the last of the 100+ post threads with "Marvin" in the title.

[Guest]

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One thing's for sure - this isn't the last of the 100+ post threads with "Marvin" in the title.

It wouldn't be a day in Hawksquawk if there wasn't at least one.

I wish there was a simple way to see the titles of all of Diesel's posts and then figure out what percentage of them explicitly had Marvin in the title and also implicitly talked about Marvin in the title. I would limit the results from after the lottery in 2005. I bet explicitly it would be 10% and implicitly 30%.

[Peoriabird]

I expect Marvin to be more determined this year! Work on his game this summer and improve in all areas especially his strength & ball handling. If Marvin worked on his ball handling then everything else that we complain about i.e finishing around the rim etc would take care of itself. If he improved his strength a little bit, he would rebound more effectively, finish around the rim more effectively and play better man up defense. We all know Marvin has the skills necessary to become an elite player but Marvin has to want it. So I expect him to be more focused this year and his stats will reflect it!

[EazyRoc]

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Perhaps you need to do more research. We were 17th in the league for Home 3pt% and 14th in the league away from home.

Who deemed midranged shooting as not important, you ? Kobe Bryant, Allen Iverson, Dwayne Wade, Joe Johnson, Rip Hamilton, Mike Redd, Dirk Nowitzki, Kevin Martin etc. all use the midrange game heavily. Like I said, all big time scorers barring bigs use the midrange game, because in today's game defenders are much better. Which means they can't always shoot the 3 or take the ball to the hoop. Enter the pull-up jumpshot. LeBron James is the only player I can think of who doesn't use the midrange game to score, and that's because hes an athletic freak of nature.

3pt % is not what's going to help keep the defenders off JJ. In fact, JJ is responsible for that 3pt%. INstead of insisting I research, I think you need to think about the research I have already given.

We were 28 and 27 in 3PA and 3PM. That's horrible. What that says is that we don't consistently try to spread the floor. I don't consider the 3 pter to be the end all and be all, however, in the lack of a low post offensive scorer, we need to be able to do something from outside that can help our quasi low post scorers and our scoring Sg. When you don't shoot the three teams Compact the lane and they double scorers. Namely because they are not worried. That's why Smoove is always open on the three point line. Teams don't fear him out there. He sometimes have an eternity to shoot the three because that's what they want.. and his big shots are those threes that he hit when we need it.

Bibby will help us with his three point shooting. Bibby has no conscience. However, the Sf Position has to shoot more than 10 3 pters.

Whatever man. I like how you missed the whole point. The point is we are not one of the worse 3 pt shooting teams in the league. Just because we don't take a lot of 3s as a team doesn't mean you are bad at it. Our 3PT Made is going to be low because we don't attempt a lot of them, but when we do we are an average 3pt shooting team. That's like saying player A, who shot 100 3s and hit 40%, is a bad shooter because there are guys out there that took 250 3s and hit the same percentage.

[Zone034life]

He doesn't have to jack up 4 threes a game but this team NEEDS him to shoot them and at a good %. If you look past this then you are fooling yourself. I have expectations for every player on this team.

Just as Smoove needs to learn to drive to the basket instead of settling for a three Marvin needs to improve his handles, three point shooting and coordination.

JJ needs to defer sometimes instead of trying to take over when it is near impossible just as Horford has to work on his footwork and post moves.

Acie has to stay healthy, gain an consistent jumper and be less turnover prone just as chillz must shoot outside more and play stronger man to man defense.

ZaZa needs to regain his inside scoring presence from his early Hawkdayz just as Solo must play stronger in the paint, have stronger hands and go after every shot in the paint.

Bibby must get healthy and in shape just as Craig needs to retire.

So you see I have expectations for this entire team. I'm just not as confident in Marvin,Bibby and ZaZa as I am in Smoove,chillz,JJ and Horford.

You can never be dissapointed if you don't have expectations.

[jhay610]

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I vehemently disagree about your contention that Woody's to blame about Marvin. IN fact, I think you can probably coincide Woody letting Chillz close out games with Woody's vote of confidence from the ASG AFTER we traded for Bibs.

I wish somebody could get the truth from BK.

I think what happened is that BK didn't want to trade for Bibs.

I think Bk was forced to do the deal.

I think BK wanted Woody fired (that we know).

But I also think BK forced Woody to play Marv high minutes.

When you think about it, who had the most to gain with Marv being out there? BK.

BK picked Marv and I'm sure he really pressed Wood to develop him. Moreso than JJ and Smoove, Marv was BK's legacy. It was a legacy going sour with Paul being talked about as MVP of the league. I'm sure he traded Al Harrington away (even though Harrington expressed that he would like to stay) simply because he wanted to develop Marvin. I'm sure that he made Chillz a 6th man.. even though Chillz has topped Marvin as far as on-court impact goes because he wanted to develop Marv. Finally, I'm sure Marv playing was probably a top priority for Woody by edict from BK. However, as Wood felt the pressure of BK's foot off of his neck, you noticed that he used Marv strategically and not down the stretch.

This season will be interesting.

You pull so many of your arguments out of thin air. That entire post is wafer-thin and completely subjective. You are not an insider so there is no reason to listen to this hot air that you blow all of the time about Marvin.

I have never been a defender of BK; don't have much positive to say about the man. To suggest that Marvin is the sole basis of his legacy, however, is way off base. His volume of work is much deeper, be it to the good or bad, than to tie his legacy to one draft pick.

And trading a career journeyman in order to get your #2 overall draft pick on the floor is just common sense, agenda or no.

[Chris18]

Diesel why do you keep bringing up the minutes issue with Marvin. How can you say that BK forced Woody to play Marvin high minutes when he only played 4 MORE MPG than Childress. I guess BK forced Woody to play Chilldress high minutes too!

[Diesel]

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I sure hope so D.

I'd love to see us up around 115 ppg.

But the modest 106 seemed more defensible to base a proposal on.

Given 115, say, give 4-5 ppg more to Bibby (he's be having more 20 pt nights than 10, and on reflection, 11-2 ppg does seem not just seem modest, but downright too low), distribute the remainder to Zaza, Chillz, Law.

I don't see anyone regressing, but it's not like their minutes will be increasing.

(Well, except hopefully AC and Zaza. In fact, with less job pressure, Woody might even decide to develop bench scoring, which would void these #s, but we'll have to see).

I think how many ppg we score would be more dependent on the PACE that our defense sets and not neccessarily on our players ability.

[Diesel]

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You pull so many of your arguments out of thin air. That entire post is wafer-thin and completely subjective. You are not an insider so there is no reason to listen to this hot air that you blow all of the time about Marvin.

I have never been a defender of BK; don't have much positive to say about the man. To suggest that Marvin is the sole basis of his legacy, however, is way off base. His volume of work is much deeper, be it to the good or bad, than to tie his legacy to one draft pick.

And trading a career journeyman in order to get your #2 overall draft pick on the floor is just common sense, agenda or no.

Jhay, if you don't think that BK's legacy will rise and fall with the drafting of Marvin Gay Williams you are fooling yourself.

As long as Deron Williams and Chris Paul are perinneal allstars and Marvin is not... That is probably the only thing that BK will be remember for. He tore down the team, went into the 2005 draft and with 5 Sfs on the roster, proclaimed that Marvin was the future of Hawks basketball. I can guarantee you that BK can't stand to hear the name Chris Paul... and that will always be.

[Wurider05]

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You pull so many of your arguments out of thin air. That entire post is wafer-thin and completely subjective. You are not an insider so there is no reason to listen to this hot air that you blow all of the time about Marvin.

I have never been a defender of BK; don't have much positive to say about the man. To suggest that Marvin is the sole basis of his legacy, however, is way off base. His volume of work is much deeper, be it to the good or bad, than to tie his legacy to one draft pick.

And trading a career journeyman in order to get your #2 overall draft pick on the floor is just common sense, agenda or no.

Jhay, if you don't think that BK's legacy will rise and fall with the drafting of Marvin Gay Williams you are fooling yourself.

As long as Deron Williams and Chris Paul are perinneal allstars and Marvin is not... That is probably the only thing that BK will be remember for. He tore down the team, went into the 2005 draft and with 5 Sfs on the roster, proclaimed that Marvin was the future of Hawks basketball. I can guarantee you that BK can't stand to hear the name Chris Paul... and that will always be.

All you do is repeat the same [censored] over and over. I think that you are trying your damnest to reach 26000 posts. i for one will no longer feed the Diesel monster. I mean you can't possibly take yourself seriously. You have created an anti-Marvin post damn near every day for 3 years. OKAY WE GET YOUR POINT. WITH THAT I AM DONE FEEDING THE DIESEL MONSTER!!!!!!!!

[Diesel]

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Diesel why do you keep bringing up the minutes issue with Marvin. How can you say that BK forced Woody to play Marvin high minutes when he only played 4 MORE MPG than Childress. I guess BK forced Woody to play Chilldress high minutes too!

Have you ever watched a Hawks game... Watched Marvin on the floor doing absolutely nothing and then wonder.. Why don't Woody take him out?

I ask that not to put the finger at Woody... but really I'm pointing the finger at our other players... Follow these questions

Have you every said that about JJ when he had one of his disappearing acts?

What about Smoove when he had one of his disappearing acts?

How about Horford when he had one of his disappearing acts?

The answer is probably no for all three... The reason being is because you knew that JJ or Smoove being on the floor even if he's momentarily not doing much... was much better than them going to the bench. In fact, In these cases, you knew that Smoove or JJ could still do something, catch on fire, and change the whole game. However, with Marvin, you also knew that once Marvin shut it down.. somewhere around the third qtr... that that was it for the night. To follow would be falls on the floor and Stumbling running into people and defensively, a foul with him walking around with his hand up holding his mouthpiece.

Somewhere in there, you have to ask yourselve why was he never pulled?

I read an in-depth interview with Woody (I think)... Here's what it says:

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Q. Guys who had sporadic roles or production during the regular season seemed to come to life in the playoff for you. Zaza Pachulia and Marvin Williams both played crucial roles in the playoffs, as did rookie point guard Acie Law IV, albeit in limited action. How do you build on what they did in the postseason going forward?

A. All those guys, along with everybody, your game has to go to another level. Everybody across the board has to take their game to the next level. This is a very pivotal summer for Acie Law as far as getting him back going, and that starts really in summer league. Zaza coming back with a better mental frame of mind to accept his role and play is just as crucial. And Marvin building on his last two years and

maybe taking that next big leap

in terms of getting where Joe [Johnson] and Josh Smith and Bibby are in terms of being a

consistent scorer has to take place

. Marvin has to step into that role where he can be that third guy or even that second guy some nights that we rely on night in and night out.

Notice...

Big Leap...

Has to take place.

Woody's not so convinced about Marvin either.

Click here.

[Diesel]

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All you do is repeat the same [censored] over and over. I think that you are trying your damnest to reach 26000 posts. i for one will no longer feed the Diesel monster. I mean you can't possibly take yourself seriously. You have created an anti-Marvin post damn near every day for 3 years. OKAY WE GET YOUR POINT. WITH THAT I AM DONE FEEDING THE DIESEL MONSTER!!!!!!!!

Kool!!!

Have a nice day.

Who was that guy?

[Traceman]

gets. I KNOW he won't get ANYWHERE NEAR $15M next year but he will get a lot more for say 18/8 than he will for 11/5. That's all I'm saying.

I wasn't even thinking in terms of him being here next year. Heck, I don't even know if he wants to come back here next year. He will be unrestricted and he can go wherever he wants.

[Lascar78]

My response was still the most accurate post in that thread:

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well good for you. I'm sure you'll enjoy many years of successful Marvin-bashing no matter what happens

[Supporter]

IF smith goes, i think that marv will become a 20ppg 8rpg guy

[ATLBob]

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I think how many ppg we score would be more dependent on the PACE that our defense sets and not neccessarily on our players ability.

Scoring efficiency is the other key, though.

Team A takes 4 shots per minute over the entire course of a game while converting 45% FG.

Team B takes 3 shots per minute over the entire course of a game while converting 60% FG.

Which team wins?

[Diesel]

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My response was still the most accurate post in that thread:

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well good for you. I'm sure you'll enjoy many years of successful Marvin-bashing no matter what happens

That after giving an answer so Flaccid that it makes Kiper and Bilas look like consistent prognosticators.

[Diesel]

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I think how many ppg we score would be more dependent on the PACE that our defense sets and not neccessarily on our players ability.

Scoring efficiency is the other key, though.

Team A takes 4 shots per minute over the entire course of a game while converting 45% FG.

Team B takes 3 shots per minute over the entire course of a game while converting 60% FG.

Which team wins?

Game ends in a tie...

And I get your point. What I'm saying though is that now with Bibby, our players have changed, if anything their efficiency will get better.. but more importantly PACE increases.