Can You Handle The Truth?

[coachx]

Thanks for advocating coach.

I sometimes wonder what the threads on this board would look like if Smoove was the #2 pick and Marv was the #17.

Wouldn't it be cool to have an interactive database that showed in depth analysis of strengths and weaknesses for each player, along with analysis of areas they will likely improve in and one that they likely will not. (I don't mean like DX at all, something far cooler, with video clips illustrating points side-by-side with statistical analysis and varied scout opinions. So if a guy has a 7 foot wingspan, you can click to actually see a picture of him being measured, and if a guy sets poor screens, you can watch a video wherein someone analyzes actual screens and what makes them poor.

Seriously, why doesn't ESPN have this already?

Interesting thought on what if Smith was picked #2 and Marvin #17. Hmmmmmmm. I will think about that one some tonight.

The interactive database is a good idea. As to why ESPN does not do it maybe their just afraid of being wrong ?

Seems like this would be right up the NBA channel's alley. They really struggle to keep ratings during the off season (unlike the NFL channel) b/c they give much less coverage then the NFL. The NFL channel covered the draft for 2 months prior to it happening with indepth analysis from past GMs of NFL teams. The NBA channel should do more of the same. I could see VanGundy and that dude from Duke who specializes in college really going at it with different philosophies. Get some old timers like Chuck Daily and Hubie Brown in there to give their take. I would definately watch that on TV. A website would be cool to.

I have alwayse been of the belief that it is more of an art then a science. For instance Smith has the science (the physical traits to jump and run with the best in the world) he just has to learn the "art" of the game (BB IQ).

Edited August 6, 2008 by coachx

[Sasha_Volkov]

Why is Smoove a risk and others are not? He's never shown one ounce of quit....

I wish he'd quit thinking he's Nique and stop shooting or dribbling from beyond 10-15 feet. Hell, I'd pay him $12 million to. Unfortunately he hasn't exactly shown himself to be the brightest of bulbs which certainly is why the ASG has reservations. He bricks 75% of his 3's and has 3 TO's per game yet he continues to chuck and go for fancy moves he simply doesn't have the skills for. I just don't get it. By comparison my dog only needs to get shocked once to learn to stay in the yard.

On the plus side the things he does well are off the charts. He's probably the most uneven player in the NBA in that regard. Outside of being an average rebounder every aspect of his game is either phenomenal or abominable. Sadly I think he was badly influenced by Antoine Walker in that regard.

[DrReality]

When there is nothing new to report the old or current news gets rehashed unitl everyone is pulling there hair out.

[crimedog]

When there is nothing new to report the old or current news gets rehashed unitl everyone is pulling there hair out.

I've said before, Sekou may not give me all the info I want be he's better than a lot of dudes out there.

If he puts out a story like this, where he literally says that there is nothing new, people complain that he is rehashing old news. If he doesn't put anything out, people complain that he isn't doing enough reporting.

[foeteen14]

didn't the ASG do something like this with the Thrashers. take over a terrible team, make some moves, let the team grow, make the playoffs, then blow the team up with terrible negotiations. thrashers now worst team in the league. doesn't it fell so good to have something so positive to look forward to. i think this is just how the ASG does things. when it's time to take that next big step they just freeze up.

[mattlanta]

Smoove is worth at least 11. To me. Anyone who (and before you jump on me, this is debatable, I know) had one of the greatest statistical seasons ever up there with Hakeem and Shaq can't be let go. Call me crazy...and I haven't thought this through well at all...but if this past season was any indication I would almost take JS over JJ. Not quite though.

Ehh... can you tell me how Smith had one of the greatest statistical season ever? And if you haven't thought it through at all, then you shouldn't say it. Because what you just said is one of the stupidest things I've heard anyone say on this forum. No one would take Josh Smith over Joe Johnson. We're talking about an NBA Elite in Joe Johnson and a future all-star in Josh Smith... I won't even get into how many situations Joe Johnson came through and carried the team on his back. Sorry, but I don't ever see Josh Smith doing that.

And I think we should just go ahead and offer Smith $12 mill/year. I don't think it's whether or not he deserves it. The market value has already been set, and anything below that value (or around it) wouldn't be considered a serious offer.

[Joker]

They are just cheap pricks that don't respect their players.

No what they did with the Thrashers is the quota for being cheap pricks; but with JS their being smart.

[Joker]

He's not as good/valuable as Okafor?

No he's not, Emeka is not just a better player but he's Center. He has two major things going for him. Offensively he not great, but defensively he is excellent. Emeka has been with some of the most terrible coaching I seen since Kruger in Atlanta. He's might be a tad over priced. But at 10 mil or more Smith is definately overpriced.

As for Bredrins, he most definitely is overpaid but what Centers aren't?

Edited August 7, 2008 by nbasuperstar40

[HawkNJersey]

No he's not, Emeka is not just a better player but he's Center. He has two major things going for him. Offensively he not great, but defensively he is excellent. Emeka has been with some of the most terrible coaching I seen since Kruger in Atlanta. He's might be a tad over priced. But at 10 mil or more Smith is definately overpriced.

As for Bredrins, he most definitely is overpaid but what Centers aren't?

Right.....

[Joker]

I will only add this.

1. I am dissapointed with the ASG tactics in resigning Smith but I'm not pissed off YET.

2. Losing Chillz due to him wanting more then $6.5 mill per is no problem to me.

3. I like the Evans signing

4. I want Smith back badly b/c his upside is exciting.

Now I have to play devils advocate b/c the Smoove love on here is alwayse strong. Occaisonly I have to visit other boards so I can stay grounded on the whole Smoove debate and keep my emotion of being a fan of Smith in place and still look at the side from his skeptics without casting stones.

1. While it can be argued who is the better "player" between Smith, Deng, Iggy, and Okefor I will say this. It doesn't matter who the best "player" is. How do you decide who is the better player when they play different positions and have different strengths and weaknesses ? All that matters is who can play a certain position the best in the NBA. Smith is by far the most "raw" of these players and needs more polish then the others. Deng and Iggy are perfect SFs. They do everything you want a SF to do. Deng and Iggy have prototypical size for their position and a prototypical skill set (Smith has neither of these 2 things going for him for his position). I would also argue that both Deng and Iggy are better at their 2nd best position (SG) then Smith is at his 2nd best position (SF). Deng and Iggy can shoot, drive and defend the perimeter which is essential for their position. Their games are pretty complete and polished when compared to Smith who has holes when it come to the simplest basics of the game for a post player such as position defense, boxing out, and polishing a post move or two.

2. Okefor too is a different animal when making comparisons though he is an easier comparison to make b/c they both play in the post. However, Okefor can play the center position and that in itself makes his value go up since we all know from expierence of watching our Hawks how hard it is to get a NBA worthy center. Okefor plays the post like a pro is supposed to play with position defense and he still gets 2 blocks a game. Okefor has averaged at over 10 rpg every year in the league and shot better then 53% the last 2 seasons. Those are the things you expect out of a $12 mill a year post player. Is a "post player "who can't guard the center position, who has never averaged over 8 rpg, commits more turnovers, and who has never shot close to 50%from the field deserve the same money ? Probably not. Right ?

3. I see Smith as a bigger risk then either Deng, Iggy, or Okefor b/c these players play within themselves and make fewer BB IQ mistakes then Smith when it come to shot selection and turn overs, plus your basic attitude and demeanor. Basically Okefor, Iggy, and Deng are able to play within a structured system. Iggy and Deng have shown they can be counted on being their teams #1 scorers. Okefor has proved he can anchor a defense as a center and consistently average between 10-13 rpg. While Smith does many things well I don't think any one forcast him ever being a #1 option of an NBA playoff team like Deng and Iggy are forcasted to do (or may already be) and he can't play center like Okefor can.

Smith is still relying too much on raw atheltic ability. Both Deng and Iggy are far more advanced when it come to actual basketball skills and basketball IQ. Same with Okefor when it comes to the skill set of a post player...he can play postion defense better then most post players in the league while Josh is still just beginning to figure that out and is by fay the better rebounder with a superior FG%.

Now as a Smith fan who sees him every game it easy to see how good he can be if he only listened and wised up and played within himself. It is also gut wrenching to watch him at times ........that is what is so frustrating.

1. I agree, I think all of them are good and are around the same level. As much as I harp on Smith I do believe he is a talented player. I believe Deng had a down season last year. I also beileve that Iggy isn't as good as he thinks but could be a great #2 to a superstar in this league. The 76ers aren't for him, I think he would be amazing in Clev.

2. Agree, he is a Center. After Char passed on Lopez that mean that Emeka was the Center of the now and future and that's why his value was so much higher regardless on personal opinion on this site.

3. Smith is very AK-47 and will likely be AK-47. He's too Antoine Walker to meaning he does things he doesn't need to do and even though he said he's needs to quit he just keeps doing them. That ok when were paying Smith 3-5 million a year but 9 or more that becomes a major problem and belittle his value. To be honest if Smith was in NY or any major city no one would dare pay this money for him because he would be highly visible to the public. The fact that many teams really got a chance to see Smith on the national stage, they focus on that much more and used excuses like the coach isn't good when reality Smith just isn't conseient.

4. Nothing wrong with relying on athletic abilites, hell Tyson Chander and Stro Swift make a career out of it. But to become great you needs the skills, the IQ, and the understanding of your game which will make you great. I don't see that in Smith to be honest and that's why I'm not high on him.

[Joker]

Right.....

How is Smith better then Emeka, please tell me. I watched both players often, Smith a lot more but I watched both often. I need you to explain why you believe that?

[crimedog]

I won't even get into how many situations Joe Johnson came through and carried the team on his back. Sorry, but I don't ever see Josh Smith doing that.

I think you could say game 3 of the playoffs (and he was HUGE on both sides of the ball in game 4 too, Joe was just huger). The Philly game earlier in the season, the Orlando game earlier in the season, the Toronto game late in the season (where he started Ding up Bosh in crunch time and took him on both ends)... thats off the top of my head.

He isn't go-to offensive guy but he can certainly control games defensively and he is a good enough offensive player that he can be counted on to get free throws when you feature him in the offense (as opposed to have him being a reaction-type player in the half-court).

... but yeah, there were certainly games where Smith carried us.

[Joker]

As an aside...

I don't disagree that he needs to work on his shot selection but he doesn't take pull-up 3s. He takes 3s because he is the kickout guy for JJ isos, especially when Chil was in the game. I'd like it if he didn't take them but he isn't bringing the ball up and jacking it.

As far as the "weakside blocking" he does so much of, he should be placed on a weaker offensive player for that reason... thats how the Spurs do it with Duncan, then you put him on the guy he matches up best with in crunch time. He has gotten a lot better at staying with his man until the last possible moment but our problem was that we had literally no one at the point of attack so every quick player in the league could penetrate and Smith was our only good shotblocker so it was often a question of who to leave open for a layup.

The defensive numbers have shown that Smith is a much improved defender over the past couple of years though.

Woody tryed that, it didn't work because Smith is not a committed man to man defender. He could be good at it too, to be honest. He too many times doesn't take man to man serious and plays for the block too much. Even on a weaker offensive player which is hard because Smith can only defend 3's and 4's they take advantage of Smith. I seen this play out too many times during the regular season. If Smith would commit himself to playing defense every possession instead of when he feels then we could do that it would work. He thinks he's Amare, Wade, or Bron but they can do that because there such great offensive players. Josh Smith isn't and I wish he would end that.

[HawkNJersey]

How is Smith better then Emeka, please tell me. I watched both players often, Smith a lot more but I watched both often. I need you to explain why you believe that?

I watch both...too.

Emeka is only a better rebounder than Smoove and that's mainly do to his position on O and D.

[Joker]

I think you could say game 3 of the playoffs (and he was HUGE on both sides of the ball in game 4 too, Joe was just huger). The Philly game earlier in the season, the Orlando game earlier in the season, the Toronto game late in the season (where he started Ding up Bosh in crunch time and took him on both ends)... thats off the top of my head.

He isn't go-to offensive guy but he can certainly control games defensively and he is a good enough offensive player that he can be counted on to get free throws when you feature him in the offense (as opposed to have him being a reaction-type player in the half-court).

... but yeah, there were certainly games where Smith carried us.

Gerald Wallace and Jason Richardson has carried there prespective teams many times over recent years. Good players can carried there teams in some games. Just letting you know that it comes with the territory when your a #1 or #2 option.

[Joker]

I watch both...too.

Emeka is only a better rebounder than Smoove and that's mainly do to his position on O and D.

Emeka an better defender, he's a very good at both off the ball and man defense which is most important in post defending. He can be a anchor. We will probably see a good Charlotte team this season with not just solid coach but a HOF and elite coach in Larry Brown.

Offensively, their on par, Smith much more versaitle and can do more offensively but Emeka plays within himself and can give you 14-20 any giving night if giving the shots. I would say Smith is more closer Iggy then Emeka talent wise.

[crimedog]

superstar, he said he could never see Smith putting the team on his back. I was just pointing out he had, so I guess you are agreeing with me but in a strange way...

As far as Smith on defense, the numbers show that our defense is very bad without Smith and respectable with. If you think that your scout eye has more weight than factual evidence, sure Smith isn't an effective defender.

[Joker]

superstar, he said he could never see Smith putting the team on his back. I was just pointing out he had, so I guess you are agreeing with me but in a strange way...

As far as Smith on defense, the numbers show that our defense is very bad without Smith and respectable with. If you think that your scout eye has more weight than factual evidence, sure Smith isn't an effective defender.

Were not a good defense with or without Smith. Without Smith we have no presence in the paint. With him were still libiable but are much better with him then without him. SMH, my scout eyes... I was just giving opinions, nothing more nothing less. I'm not saying your wrong in fact I was adding your statement. Smith is effective, I never said he wasn't I said he can be a liaibility which is completely true. He is and can be. Smith is effective and without him, we need proper replacement or kiss our postseason hopes good bye. Morris and Zaza aren't close to replacements.

Just like Bron and Wade, they can be solid on man D too, but don't put the effort and conserve energy for defense. Different is as I said earlier, their #1 who carry their teams, Smith isn't.

Edited August 7, 2008 by nbasuperstar40

[NJHAWK]

To me this is new news. Sekou has always said the Hawks made Smith a 5 year 45 mill offer last year which obviously Smith didnt accept. This offseason Sekou has been saying the Hawks have not made another offer but were negotiating. If the Hawks are still standing pat on this 9 mill a year offer then they ARE STONE COLD FOOLS. THATS JUST PLAIN STUPIDITY RIGHT THERE. Im not the biggest Smoove fan but he proved last year he is worth more than that old offer. Also the market has dictated he is worth more.

[Zone034life]

Funny how when someone points out Smooves flaws there is a line to praise that poster. If I or another poster posts Marvins flaws then we will get attacked and called Marvin haters.

Now thats interesting