Bowl games

[DrReality]

How would you guys rate the bowl games so far this year. There have not been very may that have really captured my attention . . . . other than the local team. Given there big games are still to come, but there have been some stinkers.

[DJlaysitup]

How would you guys rate the bowl games so far this year. There have not been very may that have really captured my attention . . . . other than the local team. Given there big games are still to come, but there have been some stinkers.

Honestly DrR, the bowl games are a dissapointment to me.....kinda like when open wheeled racing split up and spoiled the Indy500. Usta be I could watch all the best games on 1 Jan and watch the final game at night - then struggle to get up for work. Now it's silly games like South Carolina against who-ever had 6 wins. More than half of the current D1 teams are now in bowls. Who cares?

[Diesel]

How would you guys rate the bowl games so far this year. There have not been very may that have really captured my attention . . . . other than the local team. Given there big games are still to come, but there have been some stinkers.

Too many weak matchups thus far.

Who didn't think that USC would roll Penn State.

Virginia Tech vs. Cincy? Really?

UGA vs. MSU... was a little more competitive that I originally thought but in my humble opinion, I think that the Big Ten ought to be allowed to play only teams from the Big West and the Mountain West conference. The Big 10 sucks.

Kentucky - ESU was a very good bowl game.

and so was Ole Miss vs. TTech.

There were some clues that AL would falter against Utah. Utah had something to prove... AL had nothing to play for. BUT, I think Utah might just have been a better team.

Surprising is the dominance of the Pac-10 and the SEC.

Actually, I kinda expected that the SEC would be strong.. but the PAC -10 is what? Undefeated?

[mrhonline]

I don't watch football in general, but that said...

...how can you guys support the absolutely ABSURD bowl system by watching the games?

[Swish]

I don't watch football in general, but that said...

...how can you guys support the absolutely ABSURD bowl system by watching the games?

Wait, does is your blood red? You don't watch football?!?!?! :P

That said, I agree...the bowls are pathetic. When you have over 60 teams playing out of 119, they are meaningless crap.

[mrhonline]

Wait, does is your blood red? You don't watch football?!?!?! :P

Football is so BORING to me, and it doesn't have the strategy that baseball does to make up for its lack of excitement. It's all the rage in certain areas of the U.S., but it's wisely ignored by the rest of the world.

There's a reason baseball, basketball, and soccer are international sports, but American football is not...

[AHF]

Football is so BORING to me, and it doesn't have the strategy that baseball does to make up for its lack of excitement. It's all the rage in certain areas of the U.S., but it's wisely ignored by the rest of the world.

There's a reason baseball, basketball, and soccer are international sports, but American football is not...

I think there is a lot more strategy involved in football than in baseball.

If you put together 16 above-average players (one each of 1B, 2B, 3B, SP, RP, etc. plus a few utility/bullpen types) from random teams in MLB and sent them on the field without a manager or coach of any kind to play an average team in a major league game they would do so with very little difficulty. Players could step in and do the job of a third base coach, etc. without too much difficulty.

If you tried to do that with 40 random above-average players in football it would be a disaster. There are too many moving parts, too many different schemes, and too much emphasis on team play in football to really be able to just pick above average players from random teams and even dream that they would be able to compete with an average cohesive team. They couldn't even speak with the same language when trying to coordinate how they would line up on plays and the absence of coordinators would definitely be felt.

Now don't get me wrong. There is certainly strategy involved in baseball and the more you get into the sport (or any other for that matter) the more complexity you find but football involves a lot more orchestrating and strategy both in preparing for games and during games than a baseball game, IMO.

[AHF]

There's a reason baseball, basketball, and soccer are international sports, but American football is not...

The reason is that you can play baseball, basketball and soccer without any significant financial investment. Find a field and put down some lines with a few goals or bases and voila you are ready for competitive baseball or soccer. Get two hoops and a slice of blacktop and you can play basketball.

Competitive football requires a huge investment (relatively) in money and resources to play competitively and safely. Without the history and community investment, is it really surprising that communities in Africa, Japan and Lithuania are not lining up to pay for football?

[jhay610]

Football is so BORING to me

Fair enough.

and it doesn't have the strategy that baseball does to make up for its lack of excitement.

Football is ALL about strategy...there is a sophisticated war game going on beneath the carnage. I don't really even see how that could be argued. I won't get into the specifics here, but a good scheme in football goes a goes a lot further than it does in baseball and basketball.

It's all the rage in certain areas of the U.S.

It's by far the most popular sport in the States and generates more revenue than any other American sport, and it's not even close. It's pretty safe to say that football is doing well in across the whole of the nation.

[mrhonline]

There are too many moving parts, too many different schemes, and too much emphasis on team play in football to really be able to just pick above average players from random teams and even dream that they would be able to compete with an average cohesive team.

Complexity isn't an indicator of strategy, though.

Besides, most of what you're describing is coordinated by a dozen coaches and nerds with whiteboard markers for six days prior to the game. As far as the actual players are concerned, there's very little strategy involved. (Quarterbacks being the notable exception).

[mrhonline]

Without the history and community investment, is it really surprising that communities in Africa, Japan and Lithuania are not lining up to pay for football?

Backyard football happens all the time all over the U.S. I used to play flag football a lot as a child. Baseball, which requires gloves for every player, a decent ball, and a bat, is arguably more expensive than finding an open field and buying a football.

In 95% of the world, though, it's a soccer game going on in that open field. But it's not just money, AHF. It's a 'beautiful' sport that requires so much more than speed and strength, the pillars of football ability at all but the highest levels.

[Admin]

Complexity isn't an indicator of strategy, though.

Besides, most of what you're describing is coordinated by a dozen coaches and nerds with whiteboard markers for six days prior to the game. As far as the actual players are concerned, there's very little strategy involved. (Quarterbacks being the notable exception).

I don't mean for this to sound rude but that statement makes me think you've never played football. I have played quite a bit of organized football, basketball, and baseball and I can say without a doubt that football is BY FAR the most difficult to grasp. Every player on each side of the ball has multiple responsibilities that are dependent on numerous factors such as down and distance, position on the field, what the offense/defense does, time of the game, etc. For example a WR has to know how to read the defense the same way that the QB does without them talking so that the WR and QB both think the WR is going to the same place based on what the defense does. The WR has to read his defensive back and figure out if he's being pressured at the line or if he has a cushion. Should he try and "swim" to the inside or outside. And all of that is only talking about the WR. You have that many or more thoughts for each position on each side of the ball on every play. That's why you have to have a head coach as well as offensive and defensive coordinators plus skill position coaches. In basketball and baseball you can easily manage the game with just the head coach.

[mrhonline]

Football is ALL about strategy...there is a sophisticated war game going on beneath the carnage. I don't really even see how that could be argued. I won't get into the specifics here, but a good scheme in football goes a goes a lot further than it does in baseball and basketball.

Football coaching is all about strategy. But if I wanted to watch 3 hours of older white guys scheming to see who has the best strategy, I could just as easily watch a Scrabble tournament.

It's by far the most popular sport in the States and generates more revenue than any other American sport, and it's not even close. It's pretty safe to say that football is doing well in across the whole of the nation.

So is Nascar. That's all I'm saying. :)

[Admin]

Backyard football happens all the time all over the U.S. I used to play flag football a lot as a child. Baseball, which requires gloves for every player, a decent ball, and a bat, is arguably more expensive than finding an open field and buying a football.

In 95% of the world, though, it's a soccer game going on in that open field. But it's not just money, AHF. It's a 'beautiful' sport that requires so much more than speed and strength, the pillars of football ability at all but the highest levels.

But isn't this discussion about organized sports? As far as organized sports goes football is very expensive because of having to buy helmets, pads, insurance, cleats, gloves, footballs, etc. Baseball can be expensive as well with the bat and glove especially but it was always more difficult to play football as a kid because a lot of parents couldn't afford to buy their kids the equipment to be able to play.

I definitely disagree about football being about speed and strength.

[mrhonline]

I don't mean for this to sound rude but that statement makes me think you've never played football. I have played quite a bit of organized football, basketball, and baseball and I can say without a doubt that football is BY FAR the most difficult to grasp. Every player on each side of the ball has multiple responsibilities that are dependent on numerous factors such as down and distance, position on the field, what the offense/defense does, time of the game, etc. For example a WR has to know how to read the defense the same way that the QB does without them talking so that the WR and QB both think the WR is going to the same place based on what the defense does. The WR has to read his defensive back and figure out if he's being pressured at the line or if he has a cushion. Should he try and "swim" to the inside or outside. And all of that is only talking about the WR. You have that many or more thoughts for each position on each side of the ball on every play. That's why you have to have a head coach as well as offensive and defensive coordinators plus skill position coaches. In basketball and baseball you can easily manage the game with just the head coach.

You're missing the point. Football coaches do a TON of work to prepare players to memorize exactly HOW and WHEN to react. I'm thoroughly impressed by NFL coaches; they earn every bit of that.

Football players, with the exception of a handful of the positions, are nowhere near as impressive outside of their obviously impressive physical attributes. I've never seen a professional sport where the players are so easily replaceable as football. It happens EVERY year in the preseason. A dozen important players will get injured or arrested (ha!), and the team will simply replace them with a backup with no major loss.

That could never happen in baseball, basketball, soccer, etc.

[Admin]

You're missing the point. Football coaches do a TON of work to prepare players to memorize exactly HOW and WHEN to react. I'm thoroughly impressed by NFL coaches; they earn every bit of that.

Football players, with the exception of a handful of the positions, are nowhere near as impressive outside of their obviously impressive physical attributes. I've never seen a professional sport where the players are so easily replaceable as football. It happens EVERY year in the preseason. A dozen important players will get injured or arrested (ha!), and the team will simply replace them with a backup with no major loss.

That could never happen in baseball, basketball, soccer, etc.

It's pointless for me to try and convince you since you have your mind so made up. I'm absolutely certain that football is a more difficult and complex game having played all of the major sports and even a little bit of soccer, which quite frankly I found to be boring, but you're certainly entitled to your opinion.

[mrhonline]

But isn't this discussion about organized sports? As far as organized sports goes football is very expensive because of having to buy helmets, pads, insurance, cleats, gloves, footballs, etc. Baseball can be expensive as well with the bat and glove especially but it was always more difficult to play football as a kid because a lot of parents couldn't afford to buy their kids the equipment to be able to play.

That's my point. Organized baseball isn't cheap and neither is organized basketball. Plus, have you ever priced a decent soccer goal? They're absurd.

I definitely disagree about football being about speed and strength.

You can't be successful in football without at least one of the two, and virtually everyone who has both is successful in football in some way if they want to be. (You may not be a WR or a QB, but they'll find a place for you. They have 20 some spots to slot you into, so you're almost guaranteed).

[mrhonline]

It's pointless for me to try and convince you since you have your mind so made up. I'm absolutely certain that football is a more difficult and complex game having played all of the major sports and even a little bit of soccer, which quite frankly I found to be boring, but you're certainly entitled to your opinion.

Most Americans, including myself, play soccer at such a piss-poor level that it is boring. :) Watching professionals do it is another story...

I grew up watching football. I was a HUGE Walter Payton fan. But as I grew older, I grew tired of football and baseball. They're just not that fun to watch. I'd still play both in my backyard in a heartbeat, but I have more important things to do than spend three hours trying to care...

Watching basketball has entranced me more and more with each passing year. The speed, the finesse, the simplicity, the strategy...it's a great sport.

Edited January 6, 2009 by mrhonline

[AHF]

Backyard football happens all the time all over the U.S. I used to play flag football a lot as a child. Baseball, which requires gloves for every player, a decent ball, and a bat, is arguably more expensive than finding an open field and buying a football.

In 95% of the world, though, it's a soccer game going on in that open field. But it's not just money, AHF. It's a 'beautiful' sport that requires so much more than speed and strength, the pillars of football ability at all but the highest levels.

(a.) Don't even try to argue cost. Look at high school budgets, college budgets, etc. and it is clear that football costs MUCH more to equip and run than baseball or soccer - despite the cost of soccer goals.

(b.) Without organized football would people be playing flag football or other non-competitive variations? Doubtful. It is a foreign sport that is expensive, dangerous, and very different from every other sport outside of the US (even sports with tackling like rugby).

(c.) On the subject of soccer, I have played for 27 years so I certainly appreciate the cost involved and the variety of skills/attributes necessary for success. I love soccer.

[TroyMcClure]

Football is so BORING to me, and it doesn't have the strategy that baseball does to make up for its lack of excitement. It's all the rage in certain areas of the U.S., but it's wisely ignored by the rest of the world.

There's a reason baseball, basketball, and soccer are international sports, but American football is not...

Yeah, they aren't evolved enough as a sporting culture to grasp a game like football. I'm really not being rude here, but it's obvious you've never even been to a football practice, much less know what it's like to play. I've played basketball against numerous college and professional players and can hold my own for a while. I played football my whole life, but there is no way that I could do that in football. Not just for the physical limitations either. The game is just too complex, as Dolfan alluded to. It's like when people say that rugby is sooo much tougher. Whatever, I get into it with Euros all the time over this. They just don't get it. Look at it like this, if you are running straight into someone without a helmet, are you going to slow up and move your head to the side, so as to not break your neck? Of course. This obviously lessens impact. A football player feels secure and runs straight through an opponent. It's a much more violent collision. Anyone who played football for any length of time knows this.

I don't find soccer even remotely close to "beautiful". It's an ugly game. One of the main allures to the American Sports is the complexity of the games. I find beauty in complexity. In organization. Games being taken to a perfection like baseball and football. Soccer is still the same game it was hundreds of years ago... When people were even dumber.

Personally, I like to watch pros actually executing the thing that makes them a pro. Like, I expect to see Chipper take good cuts, Ryan to throw a good ball, Smoove to do the right thing(yeah, right!). I want to see a skilled craftsman doing their job. I don't want to see the one or two guys who get a chance to take a shot on goal, have the moment repeatedly slip away because of the absolute inability to actually control the ball. That just isn't beautiful.

Neither is the idea of tying. That is just so, well, so... euro.

Sorry if my tone is harsh, but I played football for a long time and it is without doubt, the most complex sport. It's also the most physical. Therein lies the appeal.