Diesel's theory on offensive production.

[Diesel]

The Benefits of Marvin coming off the bench.

1. JJ can play the Sf.
   
2. Acie or Flip can play more time with Bibby and JJ on the court.
   
3. Marvin can bring energy to the reserves
   
4. Marvin can work on his aggressiveness off the bench.
   
5. It can be just like playing at UNC for Marvin... Roy knew something.
   
6. The high post is open for Horf and Smoove to work.
   

[Diesel]

The Benefits of Marvin coming off the bench.

1. JJ can play the Sf.
   
2. Acie or Flip can play more time with Bibby and JJ on the court.
   
3. Marvin can bring energy to the reserves
   
4. Marvin can work on his aggressiveness off the bench.
   
5. It can be just like playing at UNC for Marvin... Roy knew something.
   
6. The high post is open for Horf and Smoove to work.
   

I think JJ has a natural advantage playing the 3. Normally at the 3, his switch is to a 4 and not a 1. Joe can size up and eat up most 3's and 4s.

Flip is our wildcard. Flip, Bibby, Joe gives a 1,2,3 that is really hard for a lot of teams to defend. Because just like tonight, Joe can find his shooters. It also opens up the floor for Smoove and Horf to work. Like it or not, when we spread the floor, the interior has huge holes in it and Josh and Horf can work from the high post and drive or face up.

Marvin coming off the bench can be the scoring captain for the bench. He would be like Dude in San Antonio. Comes in with Energy and looks to score. Maybe this is the correct method to build up his aggressiveness. Let him come off the bench as a designated scorer.

[Chris18]

I would rather get a real center and have Smoove come off the bench.

[Peoriabird]

I think JJ has a natural advantage playing the 3. Normally at the 3, his switch is to a 4 and not a 1. Joe can size up and eat up most 3's and 4s.

Flip is our wildcard. Flip, Bibby, Joe gives a 1,2,3 that is really hard for a lot of teams to defend. Because just like tonight, Joe can find his shooters. It also opens up the floor for Smoove and Horf to work. Like it or not, when we spread the floor, the interior has huge holes in it and Josh and Horf can work from the high post and drive or face up.

Marvin coming off the bench can be the scoring captain for the bench. He would be like Dude in San Antonio. Comes in with Energy and looks to score. Maybe this is the correct method to build up his aggressiveness. Let him come off the bench as a designated scorer.

So let me get this straight, the fact that the Hawks have won the last 3 games with Mo Evans starting at the 3 proves that we are a better team with Joe playing the 3? Help me understand your logic please!

[DJlaysitup]

The Benefits of Marvin coming off the bench.

1. JJ can play the Sf.
   
2. Acie or Flip can play more time with Bibby and JJ on the court.
   
3. Marvin can bring energy to the reserves
   
4. Marvin can work on his aggressiveness off the bench.
   
5. It can be just like playing at UNC for Marvin... Roy knew something.
   
6. The high post is open for Horf and Smoove to work.
   

Well here's the rub - JJ doesn't want to be a 3.

[gsuteke]

In Diesel's defense here I'd like to point out two things, 1 of them helping to prove his point.

First of all the Hawks are something like 24-7 at home. Hello, they've been winning without Marvin at home. Point taken.

However.......

What I see from the Hawks without Marvin is forcing Woodrow to play a lineup that can handle that ball alot better on the perimeter. It keeps the offense from becoming so damn stagnant.

When Marvin starts you've got Joe and Bibby that can dribble and make things happen on the perimeter. When you think of a SF that has Star level skills it's a guy that can dribble the ball around the perimeter either creating his own shot off a jumper or a drive. Vince Carter or Old School Tracy McGrady I'll use as examples.

Well we've got that guy, he's Joe Johnson.

What they need is another person that can create off the drive in the lane. Mo serves this role a little better than Marvin, albeit to a slightly lesser extent.

Now when you put Acie or Flip in the game..... that's another story.

The Hawks biggest offseason need is to acquire someone who can create in the lane. Hate him for being a chucker as I do all you want, but Flip can do that. They need Acie Law to step his game up to the level it was at Texas A&M.

[Peoriabird]

In Diesel's defense here I'd like to point out two things, 1 of them helping to prove his point.

What they need is another person that can create off the drive in the lane. Mo serves this role a little better than Marvin, albeit to a slightly lesser extent.

Did you type that with a straight face? :huh:

Edited March 14, 2009 by Peoriabird

[D.R.P.]

The Benefits of Marvin coming off the bench.

1. JJ can play the Sf.
   
2. Acie or Flip can play more time with Bibby and JJ on the court.
   
3. Marvin can bring energy to the reserves
   
4. Marvin can work on his aggressiveness off the bench.
   
5. It can be just like playing at UNC for Marvin... Roy knew something.
   
6. The high post is open for Horf and Smoove to work.
   

Heck, its been a long time since you posted anything that makes sense. I'm starting to wonder if you have nightmares about Marvin leading this team to wins when JJ was out.

[DJlaysitup]

.... They need Acie Law to step his game up to the level it was at Texas A&M.

Sadly...the guy is not producing...who knows why but it just ain't happening for Acie....maybe he's not that good.

[Plainview1981]

I think JJ has a natural advantage playing the 3. Normally at the 3, his switch is to a 4 and not a 1. Joe can size up and eat up most 3's and 4s.

Flip is our wildcard. Flip, Bibby, Joe gives a 1,2,3 that is really hard for a lot of teams to defend. Because just like tonight, Joe can find his shooters. It also opens up the floor for Smoove and Horf to work. Like it or not, when we spread the floor, the interior has huge holes in it and Josh and Horf can work from the high post and drive or face up.

Marvin coming off the bench can be the scoring captain for the bench. He would be like Dude in San Antonio. Comes in with Energy and looks to score. Maybe this is the correct method to build up his aggressiveness. Let him come off the bench as a designated scorer.

I don't like Flip starting. As a starter he will disrupt what is already a fragile offense.

[tonegully]

Mo can create in the lane?? You can't be serious. Mo barely hits layups unless he is dunking. He cant hit anything inside the 3 point line and can barely hit the 3.

The offense is the same with Mo in. What has changed?? Nothing.

[TruJerz]

The Benefits of Marvin coming off the bench.

1. JJ can play the Sf.
   
2. Acie or Flip can play more time with Bibby and JJ on the court.
   
3. Marvin can bring energy to the reserves
   
4. Marvin can work on his aggressiveness off the bench.
   
5. It can be just like playing at UNC for Marvin... Roy knew something.
   
6. The high post is open for Horf and Smoove to work.
   

when he comes back this season, I wouldnt mind him coming off the bench so that he doesnt mess up the chemistry. But next year, if we resign him, I think he should have a shot at starting again

[Diesel]

when he comes back this season, I wouldnt mind him coming off the bench so that he doesnt mess up the chemistry. But next year, if we resign him, I think he should have a shot at starting again

That's one of the main points. Our chemistry is just better without Marvin. Teke said that it might be to the fact that Marvin is not a guy that can create for himself with the ball in his hand. Let's be honest. When Marvin is in the game he's usually waiting for a pass and standing on the perimeter. i.e. not moving with the ball... stagnant. This forces Joe to hold the ball 100% of the time and create to Marvin. However, when Flip is in the game, he can take the ball and move with it, he can dish off...he can cause problems for defense. Tonight in the 3rd, there was one time when Joe dribbled through the lane, out to flip at the three and Flip suddenly to Bibby in the corner. Bibby had time to eat a sandwich out there because the ball movement was so good that the defense was so good. We don't have that kind of chemistry with Marvin. Like I said the other day, Marvin playing gives a different dynamic. Not neccessarily bad, but our offense is not as free flowing. You who watch us play without Marvin, you can see us having a little swagger. Joe doesn't have that look as though he doesn't want to pass. I think he has more trust in flip than he does in Marvin. And Flip can rotate the ball better.

Now let's talk Sf shop...

Paul Pierce.

Lebron James

Shawn Marion

Danny Granger

Caron Butler

Rashard Lewis

Rudy Gay

Carmello Anthony

Vince

Artest

GForce Gerald Wallace

Durant

Josh Howard

Maggette

Deng

Jefferson

Moon

Dunleavy Jr.

Charlie V.

Thad Young

Al Thornton

Tayshun Prince

Grant Hill

Jeff Green

Which of these guys does Marvin play like. Seriously. The only one is Shawn Marion... and Marion is more like a PF than a SF.. plus Marion is a hellavu finisher. The problem is that Marvin can't do what these guys do. These guys can all take their man off the dribble. These guys are all aggressive. These guys are all about to work in the perimeter as well as drive through the lane. These are not allstars, these are guys who's name pop up as Sfs.

If you want to compare Marvin to a player... here's your list:

Marion

Battier

Bowen

Kirlenko

Peja

All of these guys are what I call end user guys. They are the terminus point of an offense just like Marvin. In actuality, they are more suited to play PF because their skillset is more like Powerfoward. Because of their lack off offensive ability, most of these guys have made up for that by concentrating on defense. This is where Marvin belongs. These guys do not help offensive chemistry.. Well maybe Peja does. but these guys have to be spoonfed offense. Marvin does too.

[Chris18]

If you want to compare Marvin to a player... here's your list:

Marion

Battier

Bowen

Kirlenko

Peja

All of these guys are what I call end user guys. They are the terminus point of an offense just like Marvin. In actuality, they are more suited to play PF because their skillset is more like Powerfoward. Because of their lack off offensive ability, most of these guys have made up for that by concentrating on defense. This is where Marvin belongs. These guys do not help offensive chemistry.. Well maybe Peja does. but these guys have to be spoonfed offense. Marvin does too.

Peja and Battier should be PF's???

[exodus]

Who was spoonfeeding Marvin his offense when JJ was out? Who was spoonfeeding Marvin his offense when they were at Denver without Bibby and Smith?

LOL @ a Childress fan talking about someone being spoonfed their offense.

[Peoriabird]

Who was spoonfeeding Marvin his offense when JJ was out? Who was spoonfeeding Marvin his offense when they were at Denver without Bibby and Smith?

LOL @ a Childress fan talking about someone being spoonfed their offense.

In addition to that, Mo Evans starts in place of Marvin not Flip! This guy is all over the map with his logic or lack there of! Flip's role has not changed since Marvin got hurt.

[buckeye242424]

In addition to that, Mo Evans starts in place of Marvin not Flip! This guy is all over the map with his logic or lack there of! Flip's role has not changed since Marvin got hurt.

FLip has been more aggressive/selfish since Marvin's been out., if that's possivble. 14 points is 14 points, I'm sure Flip sees him having to make that up and them some for us.

[AtLaS]

I am honestly starting to think that Marvin off the bench would not be a bad idea. Not because of bad play of anything, but because it would give us two fresh scorers off the bench. With Bibby/JJ/Smith/Horford already starting and on the floor, Marvin's offense is needed less. Thus when we have to sub out, we usually suffer a dropoff because our bench isn't deep.

If Marvin comes in at about the 6-7 minute mark in the first, he'd be fresh and able to look to score a lot more, similar to the way SAS often uses Ginobili. This actually may increase his scoring. Marvin would of course play in crunch time as we'd have our best 5 out there.

I think Marvin would disappear a lot less in this scenario as well because when he's on the floor with the starting 5, he doesn't always look to score as much because they are capable scorers as well so he gets less opportunities.

[Peoriabird]

FLip has been more aggressive/selfish since Marvin's been out., if that's possivble. 14 points is 14 points, I'm sure Flip sees him having to make that up and them some for us.

Flip or whom ever else can be as aggressive as they see fit no matter who is in or out! I don't get the connection between Flip's aggressiveness and Marvin's injury unless you are saying that Flip is taking it upon himself to take make up the scoring slack. Under those circumstances, it wouldn't matter who is out!

[Peoriabird]

I am honestly starting to think that Marvin off the bench would not be a bad idea. Not because of bad play of anything, but because it would give us two fresh scorers off the bench. With Bibby/JJ/Smith/Horford already starting and on the floor, Marvin's offense is needed less. Thus when we have to sub out, we usually suffer a dropoff because our bench isn't deep.

If Marvin comes in at about the 6-7 minute mark in the first, he'd be fresh and able to look to score a lot more, similar to the way SAS often uses Ginobili. This actually may increase his scoring. Marvin would of course play in crunch time as we'd have our best 5 out there.

I think Marvin would disappear a lot less in this scenario as well because when he's on the floor with the starting 5, he doesn't always look to score as much because they are capable scorers as well so he gets less opportunities.

You guys continue to dream that someday this offense will improve and the bottom line is that it won't as long as Woodson is coaching. Woodson's focus will always be defense and against weaker teams without a star 3, you can start Mo Evans and get away with it. But against great teams with great 3's Mo Evans becomes a very noticeable liability which would lead to bad starts in 1st quarters making it difficult to consistently win. It would be tough to get by with 2 poor defenders on the floor to start the game since Bibby is our starting point guard!

Edited March 14, 2009 by Peoriabird