We didn't draft Mike Conley because he couldn't shoot the ball?

[Cwell]

the guy is darn near shooting 40% from 3 this year. Well what do u expect we never knew athletes develop. Well that seems the case with what we have here.

[capstone21]

the guy is darn near shooting 40% from 3 this year. Well what do u expect we never knew athletes develop. Well that seems the case with what we have here.

Are you saying you would rather Conley then Horford??????? No thanks

[Cwell]

Are you saying you would rather Conley then Horford??????? No thanks

no,where do u get that from. It's just that people said we shouldn't draft Conley because he culdn't shoot,even Woody. and look at him now. Maybe if Woody would get off of Acie's back and let him play like what happened with Conley after Ivaroni was fired then maybe he'd shoot and play alot better also.

[mrhonline]

no,where do u get that from.

He got that from your false dilemma.

The argument was never "don't take Conley," it was "don't take Conley in the place of Horford." And it was the RIGHT argument.

[exodus]

He got that from your false dilemma.

The argument was never "don't take Conley," it was "don't take Conley in the place of Horford." And it was the RIGHT argument.

Conley is shooting 41% from 3, better than anyone on the Hawks roster. He is also 2 years younger than Horford and plays a position that the Hawks definitely need help in. But i guess I guess the young player argument only applies to guys in a Hawk uniform.

Unlike Horford Conley is actually showing noticable improvement. He is averaging nearly 15 ppg since the end of January.

Meanwhile Horford can't score for crap in the post, doesn't beat guys off the dribble and his jumper has been clanging off the rim. He basically doesn't score other than when he is spoon fed. He can't guard big post players either. He is just the second best 4 on the roster.

One thing for sure is that right now Conley/Stuckey are vastly outproducing Horford/Law and the gap will probably be wider next year.

We don't even know who will be playing the point for the Hawks next year. if the Hawks had drafted Conley/Stuckey the pg spot would no longer be a concern.

Edited April 4, 2009 by exodus

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Gotta love the apples and oranges comparisons. Because it's unfair to both Law and especially Horford, to compare their offensive output to guys who are at least the 3rd scoring option on their respective teams.

As far as Conley goes, he's playing very good ball for the Griz since they decided to trade Lowry. They've made a full commitment to have him run the show in Memphis. And from the recent Grizzlies games I've seen, he's taking a larger role offensively, because it seems as if Mayo has hit the "rookie wall" recently.

To me, the most impressive thing about him, is not the 40%+ 3-point shooting . . it's the 80%+ free throw shooting. He was a guy who was streaky at best at the line while he was in college. Now, he's one of the better FT shooters in the league.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Meanwhile Horford can't score for crap in the post, doesn't beat guys off the dribble and his jumper has been clanging off the rim. He basically doesn't score other than when he is spoon fed. He can't guard big post players either. He is just the second best 4 on the roster.

One thing for sure is that right now Conley/Stuckey are vastly outproducing Horford/Law and the gap will probably be wider next year.

We don't even know who will be playing the point for the Hawks next year. if the Hawks had drafted Conley/Stuckey the pg spot would no longer be a concern.

Yes, he does look awkward at times in the post, but he's still an effective scorer around the basket, whether it be from post moves, the face-up jumper, or offensive rebound putbacks. He'll probably end up with the face-up jumper being his most effective scoring weapon.

As far as talking about Conley/Stuckey, neither of those guys would've gotten extensive playing time at the point in their rookie year, because our coach would've still opted to go with Lue and A.J . . until the Hawks possibly made a trade.

In fact, one of those guys may have not even played much in their rookie year, because Woody still wouldn't rest JJ 12 - 16 minutes a game, in order to develop a Stuckey at the 2. So it'll come down to who performed better. . . Conley or Stuckey . . to see who would be the #3 PG.

[Cwell]

if the Hawks had drafted Conley/Stuckey...

Acie would be the one we should have drafted and Conley/Stuckey would be the ones on the bench here. We didn't draft the wrong guys. We just hired the wrong coach. Nobody misses on all draft picks. There's a reason every single guy we drafted has some huge problem at this point,even the guy viewed as a star like Smoove.

If Woodson wasn't here Acie would be doing just as good or better than Conley and Stuckey and Horford would be alot better as well as Smith and Marvin. Joe also.

[exodus]

Gotta love the apples and oranges comparisons. Because it's unfair to both Law and especially Horford, to compare their offensive output to guys who are at least the 3rd scoring option on their respective teams.

On what teams would Horford be the 3rd scoring option?

As far as talking about Conley/Stuckey, neither of those guys would've gotten extensive playing time at the point in their rookie year, because our coach would've still opted to go with Lue and A.J . . until the Hawks possibly made a trade.

That is just speculation. Plus it isn't like Conley and Stuckey got a lot of time their rookie years with Memphis and Detroit. What isn't speculation is that both those guys are productive starters right now.

Lue was frequently hurt and AJ was frequently ineffective. It wouldn't have been hard to beat them out of playing time. If Acie had stayed healthy he might have done it himself.

This summer the Hawks need a pg and a center. Those are the exact same needs they had in 2007 when they had two lottery picks.

Edited April 4, 2009 by exodus

[AtLaS]

Conley is shooting 41% from 3, better than anyone on the Hawks roster. He is also 2 years younger than Horford and plays a position that the Hawks definitely need help in. But i guess I guess the young player argument only applies to guys in a Hawk uniform.

Unlike Horford Conley is actually showing noticable improvement. He is averaging nearly 15 ppg since the end of January.

Meanwhile Horford can't score for crap in the post, doesn't beat guys off the dribble and his jumper has been clanging off the rim. He basically doesn't score other than when he is spoon fed. He can't guard big post players either. He is just the second best 4 on the roster.

One thing for sure is that right now Conley/Stuckey are vastly outproducing Horford/Law and the gap will probably be wider next year.

We don't even know who will be playing the point for the Hawks next year. if the Hawks had drafted Conley/Stuckey the pg spot would no longer be a concern.

He's also doing it for a garbage team during garbage time where he has a complete green light and is getting 35+ minutes per game. I will admit I'm surprised by his 3pt% though.

Regardless we wouldn't be a better team with Conley/Stuckey right now. We'd be even softer up front, Zaza would be starting and Shelden would probably still be here. We'd probably barely be good enough to make the playoffs and have no chance of acquiring a legit center. Horford also has a much higher trade value if we decided to go that route. IMO I'm still taking Horford quite easily and I'm sure most NBA fans would.

[exodus]

He's also doing it for a garbage team during garbage time where he has a complete green light and is getting 35+ minutes per game. I will admit I'm surprised by his 3pt% though.

Regardless we wouldn't be a better team with Conley/Stuckey right now. We'd be even softer up front, Zaza would be starting and Shelden would probably still be here. We'd probably barely be good enough to make the playoffs and have no chance of acquiring a legit center. Horford also has a much higher trade value if we decided to go that route. IMO I'm still taking Horford quite easily and I'm sure most NBA fans would.

Horford has been getting big minutes from day 1. Conley hasn't. Horford is also 2 years older. It isn't like Horfords 11/9 couldn't be replaced. he is an above average rebounder, weak scorer and struggles to defend big post players.

If Conley/Stuckey were here this year who would be playing in front of them?

If we had Conley/Stuckey we wouldn't have traded for Bibby whose contract badly hindered the Hawks ability to land free agents last summer. The Hawks definitely would have had the opportunity to add size.

We have the exact same needs going into this draft (pg and center) that we had going into the 2007 draft. if we had drafted Conley/Stuckey we wouldn't be going into this offseason not knowing who our starting pg will be next season.

[HamHawk]

Good point about being in the same spot we were then, but I think it might be ok that we waited. We've got talent now and are just a PG and C away from being an elite team, not in 2007 where we would have picked them up to just be a playoff contender. Just my opinion. . .

[GST]

My way of thinking back then, as well as others on this board, was that Horford was the lower risk pick, ready to go from day one, while Conley had the higher ceiling, if you were willing to wait on him to develop. I still think Conley will eventually be a better PG than Horford is a PF. Horford is good, but he will most likely never be the kind of player you can build a team around, while Conley may very well turn out to be that kind of player.

[crimedog]

I was a big Conley fan and I have been very pleased watching him play since Iavoronni headed out the door. His shot looks better than Acie's though.

As far as whether he was the "right" pick, who knows? Waaay too much speculation to say that we're better off long term with a guy who could very well end up being the worse player at a position where we already have a guy.

[Diesel]

Horford has been getting big minutes from day 1. Conley hasn't. Horford is also 2 years older. It isn't like Horfords 11/9 couldn't be replaced. he is an above average rebounder, weak scorer and struggles to defend big post players.

If Conley/Stuckey were here this year who would be playing in front of them?

If we had Conley/Stuckey we wouldn't have traded for Bibby whose contract badly hindered the Hawks ability to land free agents last summer. The Hawks definitely would have had the opportunity to add size.

We have the exact same needs going into this draft (pg and center) that we had going into the 2007 draft. if we had drafted Conley/Stuckey we wouldn't be going into this offseason not knowing who our starting pg will be next season.

Uhm... Without Bibby and Horf, the Hawks would not be sniffing the playoffs... this year or last.

We would have Zaza, Smoove, Marvin, Joe, and MCJ.

That's if Woody would have ever taken Lue or AJ out of the game long enough to develop MCJ. Remember, MCJ sucked last year. Grizz had to get rid of Lowry to develop him.

[crimedog]

Uhm... Without Bibby and Horf, the Hawks would not be sniffing the playoffs... this year or last.

We would have Zaza, Smoove, Marvin, Joe, and MCJ.

That's if Woody would have ever taken Lue or AJ out of the game long enough to develop MCJ. Remember, MCJ sucked last year. Grizz had to get rid of Lowry to develop him.

We don't know what we would have had. We know that we would have had Conley with the 3 and then the rest of the assets we used to get Bibby + the 11 pick.

Granted, we might not have eked out those 37 wins last year, but we have no clue what moves we could have, or would have made had we taken a different direction with that 3 pick.

Additionally, had we taken Conley at 3, we would have had 1-4 set for the future and we could have used our assets on finding a 5 to fill in there instead of having to worry about positions 1 and 5 and wonder whether or not we have 2 PFs on the roster or whether Al and Josh can co-exist.

Its still too early to tell because we don't know how good either Al or Conley will become.

[AtLaS]

If we had Conley/Stuckey we wouldn't have traded for Bibby whose contract badly hindered the Hawks ability to land free agents last summer. The Hawks definitely would have had the opportunity to add size.

There really weren't any legit bigs to acquire last summer. I don't think Bibby's contract hindered us at all.

We have the exact same needs going into this draft (pg and center) that we had going into the 2007 draft. if we had drafted Conley/Stuckey we wouldn't be going into this offseason not knowing who our starting pg will be next season.

We've needed a PG and C since BK took over the reigns. It's not like the 2007 draft is the only example, and 2007 wasn't the first year we needed one. C's are extremely hard to find (good ones) and we didn't have an opportunity to get one last summer.

In terms of production right now, Stuckey is essentially Flip. Conley wouldn't be much better (if at all) than Bibby and we'd be much worse up front. IMO we'd be around the 8th seed and we would still have no chance at acquiring a big. Horford has a higher trade value than Conley and the only way to get a good center or big will be by trade. That's it. Regardless, I'm sure most NBA fans would take Horford over Conley right now if the draft was redone today. The Law over Stuckey pick can definitely be debated, but I don't think Horford over Conley can.

[exodus]

Good point about being in the same spot we were then, but I think it might be ok that we waited. We've got talent now and are just a PG and C away from being an elite team, not in 2007 where we would have picked them up to just be a playoff contender. Just my opinion. . .

The problem is that the pg and C are important positions that aren't easy to fill. We have been singing the "we just need a pg and C" song for years.

[exodus]

There really weren't any legit bigs to acquire last summer. I don't think Bibby's contract hindered us at all.

We have the rights to David Andersen but couldn't bring him over. Obviously there is no telling how good he would be but i doubt he would have much trouble scoring 11 ppg.

Last summer wasn't our only opportunity to aquire a big. We had a bunch of expiring contracts we could trade during last season. That is how we got Bibby.

In terms of production right now, Stuckey is essentially Flip.

First of all Flip is having a great year. Secondly Stuckey has had to play with Billups and Iverson. That is far more competition than Horford has ever had to deal with.

I'm sure most NBA fans would take Horford over Conley right now if the draft was redone today.

You are ignoring a few of things.Horford has been healthy and has gotten a lot more playing time than Conley. The Hawks needed a pg. Horford played 3 years in college. Conley only played 1.

I'll take a starting pg over the second best 4 on the roster.

Edited April 7, 2009 by exodus

[AtLaS]

We have the rights to David Andersen but couldn't bring him over. Obviously there is no telling how good he would be but i doubt he would have much trouble scoring 11 ppg.

That's just speculation. He could've very well came over and bombed and/or sucked at defense. From what I know of him he seems like nothing but a jumpshooter and looks extremely soft.

Last summer wasn't our only opportunity to aquire a big. We had a bunch of expiring contracts we could trade during last season. That is how we got Bibby.

We would've had to take on a big contract from a probably injury prone and/or questionable big. I doubt we would've gotten something worthwhile that would've put us over the top without screwing us over financially long term.

First of all Flip is having a great year. Secondly Stuckey has had to play with Billups and Iverson. That is far more competition than Horford has ever had to deal with.

Billups played 3 games for them this season. Flip has to play with JJ, Bibby and Smith who aren't exactly hesitant to take shots either. And, Iverson only played 1 game in March and Stuckey's production didn't improve.

You are ignoring a few of things.Horford has been healthy and has gotten a lot more playing time than Conley. The Hawks needed a pg. Horford played 3 years in college. Conley only played 1.

I'll take a starting pg over the second best 4 on the roster.

We don't know that Conley is a starting PG yet. Tons of players have had good two month runs and Conley isn't exactly setting the world on fire. I'm not saying he won't be, because he definitely could, but he hasn't played well for long enough to say we made the wrong pick by having a 22 year old who is putting up 11 and 9+ on 50+% shooting, 2.5 assists and 1.5 blocks for a playoff team while according to you, is playing out of position.

If Horford was on a scrub team that was tanking than he'd get more touches and I'm sure he would put up better stats as well.

And considering our needs at the time, Conley wasn't exactly seen as a world beater. He couldn't shoot and Acie/Critt/Stuckey all looked like solid prospects that would be available with our second pick. Given a similar situation it would be tough to find a GM that wouldn't have taken Horford with the first pick, and I was (am) a Conley fan.

Edited April 7, 2009 by AtLaS