Acie Law IV

[hawkman]

he had no other reason. Salim was the backup PG game 1. He realized he made a mistake. Game 2 Acie got over 20 minutes and scored 12 points.He was the only bright spot in that game. Woody was interviews at halftime and was asked about Acie, and said some BS about Acie being a better matchup and having more size and he gave us more stability in running our team. The next game he only had like 8 minutes and didn't get much more time the rest of the series. All while Bibby continued to suck and Rondo continued to make him his b***h

So you really think that Woody limited Acie's minutes during that series because he played well when given the opportunity? Isn't it Woody's job to win games in the first place? I still am not getting what you're trying to say there. The bottom line is Acie hasn't exactly performed well when given the opportunity and he was given numerous opportunities his Rookie year. He just couldn't beat out the PG tandem of Johnson and Lue due to both poor performance and injury. When it was evident that he wasn't THE guy, BK traded for Bibby and his minutes evaporated from there. But you don't have to believe me, just look at the game logs on ESPN for the '07-'08 season. The "plan" was for Acie to be the starter at PG when he was drafted and it just hasn't worked out. I don't see how you can keep blaming Woody when he's been giving Rookies/young players extensive minutes his whole career as a head coach. Heck, even Mario West has started for this team. It's time to stop making excuses.

[Cwell]

So you really think that Woody limited Acie's minutes during that series because he played well when given the opportunity? Isn't it Woody's job to win games in the first place? I still am not getting what you're trying to say there. The bottom line is Acie hasn't exactly performed well when given the opportunity and he was given numerous opportunities his Rookie year. He just couldn't beat out the PG tandem of Johnson and Lue due to both poor performance and injury. When it was evident that he wasn't THE guy, BK traded for Bibby and his minutes evaporated from there. But you don't have to believe me, just look at the game logs on ESPN for the '07-'08 season. The "plan" was for Acie to be the starter at PG when he was drafted and it just hasn't worked out. I don't see how you can keep blaming Woody when he's been giving Rookies/young players extensive minutes his whole career as a head coach. Heck, even Mario West has started for this team. It's time to stop making excuses.

yep look at the game logs and watch Woody play hot potato with his minutes. Only playing 30 minutes in one game in his career isn't multiple opportunities. Flip continously playing 20 plus minutes every single game while turning the ball over and bricking shots is multiple opportunities. U act like the guy never had positive impact on a game and if u say he did look at the next game and see of he was provided the opportunity to build on those performances and build his confidence. I've see guys on teams all over the NBA do NOTHING and get consistent minutes yet Acie is held to a whole different standard. Yeah there just excuses......for woody. How else do u explain him not getting good minutes those games after he played well against Boston? Woodson has never rewarded good performances. So whatever confidence he gets to build on gets shut down by the time he gets the shot again.

After showing out in pre-season.(an opportunity to show he can play) His regular season minutes immediately go down to 16,13,12,13,6,0,10. Seriously? after his pre-season performance,that's his reward?

Flip on the other hand gets HANDED over 20 minutes in every game,not to mention he shot HORRIBLY and turned the ball over like it was a rule.

Edited May 29, 2009 by Cwell

[bumpyphish1]

Im with you, Cwell. Flip is one of the most inefficient players in the NBA.

[itsslomotionbaby]

their still is no excuse for woody, please tell me how do you develope any body playing them every 6th game and at garbage time. how come everyteam i have seen lately in the playoffs have reserves that come off the bench and contribute but when ours get in they look scared.

like the other poster said you could find a limited role for acie without risk loosing the game. especially on nights when bibby is not hitting and point guards are blowing past him . i remember when we had to give anthony johnson playing time. he sucked for a while before he got better.

the same thing happened with rondo, they suffered some games with that cat. but they did have superstars to carry him.NOW THE ONE BIG KNOCK ON ACIE IS STAYING HEALTHY. thats really the only reason i see giving up on him.

even dominique gives us hints about players that can play but dont get any playing time on atlantas bench.

[hawkman]

Im with you, Cwell. Flip is one of the most inefficient players in the NBA.

Flip was also one of the best 6th men in the NBA. Talking bad about Flip doesn't make Acie any better. Talking bad about Bibby doesn't make Acie any better. If Acie had played better when given the opportunity, chances are neither of those guys would be here right now. I just hope Acie isn't sitting around making excuses for himself like some around here are. If I were him, I'd be working my butt off in the gym and weight room so that when I am called upon, even if it's only for 10 minutes, those would be the best 10 minutes of my short career. Woody rewards all out effort, just ask Mario West.

Edited May 29, 2009 by hawkman

[laved11]

When it was evident that he wasn't THE guy, BK traded for Bibby and his minutes evaporated from there. But you don't have to believe me, just look at the game logs on ESPN for the '07-'08 season. The "plan" was for Acie to be the starter at PG when he was drafted and it just hasn't worked out. I don't see how you can keep blaming Woody when he's been giving Rookies/young players extensive minutes his whole career as a head coach. Heck, even Mario West has started for this team. It's time to stop making excuses.

You make yourself sound foolish. When Knight and Woodson realized after playing significant minutes for less than half of a season, Woodson realized Acie was not the guy? With that kind of logic, PG's like Tony Parker, Monta Ellis, Chris Duhon, Jarrett Jack, Jameer Nelson, Mo Williams, Rodney Stuckey or anyone else taken late rounds shouldn't be productive starters either... because none of them had to adjust to the NBA and improve before becoming starters. (sarcasm) When guys have the skill-set, like Acie Law has, GOOD coaches train and develop them to help them get better.

Don't get misled by the 2007-08 playoff appearance. The Hawks had no business in the post-season winning only 37 games. In fact, Woodson and his ridiculous strategy of "if it doesn't work... do it some more!" helped his team back into the playoffs by dropping four of the final five games, then not coming within 100 points of beating Boston in Boston. In that time, Law could have been developing so we are not in this position.

Holla!

[Cwell]

Flip was also one of the best 6th men in the NBA. Talking bad about Flip doesn't make Acie any better. Talking bad about Bibby doesn't make Acie any better. If Acie had played better when given the opportunity, chances are neither of those guys would be here right now. I just hope Acie isn't sitting around making excuses for himself like some around here are. If I were him, I'd be working my butt off in the gym and weight room so that when I am called upon, even if it's only for 10 minutes, those would be the best 10 minutes of my short career. Woody rewards all out effort, just ask Mario West.

Flip was handed minutes he didn't earn no more than Acie and he eventually got better. Just because he scoring alot don't mean nothing when he goes 4-11.and he had a lot of games like that. Flip was all over the place the first part of the season and kept getting minutes. And since when was Mario rewarded? He earned alot more time than he got also.It took him till the end of the season to give him more than 6 seconds?

Stop with this whole best 20 minutes of his career crap. He's the PG and he does what Woodson calls for him to do and that makes him unsuccessful because he doesn't have the ball in his hands. In order for him to have the best 10 minutes of his career he would have to totally ignore woody and go out and do his own thing,which will get him benched anyway. It's funny how u ignore Woody's obvious bias with Flip. Flip did not earn those 20 plus minutes he was getting consistently at the beginning of the season and Acie earned alot more than that 8 minutes or so BS he was getting. and at a point in time he made positive impacts on the game for like a 10 game stretch with those little minutes and his minutes never increased. What do u want from him? what do u expect him to do when the offense calls for him to go in the corner after the first pass and he never gets the ball back? seriously where do u see a situation for him to come in and succeed with the way the offense flows? with his skillset?

It's no coincedence that when the game is decided and he gets a chance he immediately starts attacking and making plays? it's because Woody has taken the leesh off and just lets them play. How many times does it call for Acie to take his man off the dribble? very rarely,while Flip gets to do it all the time (and be unsuccessful).

Give anybody with some skill that many minutes and let them take as many shots as they want without passing and I bet they'd be one of the best 6th men also. Lol he wasn't close to Jason Terry and Nate Robinson. Where did he finish in the voting?if he was even mentioned.

This whole Roddy White mindset by a lot of u fans is hilarious,where coaching is perfect and a player can never be affected by coaching.

Edited May 29, 2009 by Cwell

[tbhawksfan]

I'm surprised about the debate. Acie has not been given the chance that he should have been given. Woodson is a totally inept offensive coach. It is totally his reponsability to effectively use the talent that is given to him. His, if you don't make me happy I'll bench you and stunt you're developement to the over-all detriment of the team.

Please don't give in to the mediocrity mentality. Expect the ASG, GM and coach to excell. It seems that they rationalize their mediocrity and little by little fans lower their expectations.

Law is at least as good as the third or fourth PG in this draft. We probably won't even get the third ot fourth best PG if we go that route.

Bring in a vet and give Law the back up minutes; a steady 20 a game, then we will be able to pass judgement.

I know Woodson is a joke, I still think Law can be an effective PG in the NBA. We need a C. Exchange Bibby for a better dishing, defending PG and get the big that we need.

There is work to do, but a very good young core. I'd worry about the C and JJ situation before writting off Law.

[MaceCase]

Flip was also one of the best 6th men in the NBA. Talking bad about Flip doesn't make Acie any better. Talking bad about Bibby doesn't make Acie any better. If Acie had played better when given the opportunity, chances are neither of those guys would be here right now. I just hope Acie isn't sitting around making excuses for himself like some around here are. If I were him, I'd be working my butt off in the gym and weight room so that when I am called upon, even if it's only for 10 minutes, those would be the best 10 minutes of my short career. Woody rewards all out effort, just ask Mario West.

Mario is a very poor example to compare Acie to, he's a hustle player by trade he comes into the game and doesn't have to affect anything in the scheme. He's just told stick the best player on the opposite team and crash the boards after shot attempts. A PG can't show off his abilities doing that, actions like that have zero to do with a points ability. That's akin to having a shooter come off the bench, not giving him the ball and then saying well he didn't earn anymore playing time because he didn't hit any shots when he was on the floor.

[Cwell]

I'm surprised about the debate. Acie has not been given the chance that he should have been given. Woodson is a totally inept offensive coach. It is totally his reponsability to effectively use the talent that is given to him. His, if you don't make me happy I'll bench you and stunt you're developement to the over-all detriment of the team.

Please don't give in to the mediocrity mentality. Expect the ASG, GM and coach to excell. It seems that they rationalize their mediocrity and little by little fans lower their expectations.

Law is at least as good as the third or fourth PG in this draft. We probably won't even get the third ot fourth best PG if we go that route.

Bring in a vet and give Law the back up minutes; a steady 20 a game, then we will be able to pass judgement.

I know Woodson is a joke, I still think Law can be an effective PG in the NBA. We need a C. Exchange Bibby for a better dishing, defending PG and get the big that we need.

There is work to do, but a very good young core. I'd worry about the C and JJ situation before writting off Law.

exactly. It's funny how fans do Acie how they did Roddy White given their situations. Same situation,bad coaching,not enough opportunities. Woody doesn't allow Acie to use his strengths because it doesn't go with his offense. So basically Acie is doing nothing but "run blocking" and going through the motions instead of running routes and catching passes (running the point). If the guy isn't good,let him show that he isn't good first then. He's shown all the skills needed to be a very good PG in this league.at the very least a great backup. He's def. not an end of the rotation scrub like Woody is using him as.

Edited May 29, 2009 by Cwell

[AHF]

yep look at the game logs and watch Woody play hot potato with his minutes.

That is my main problem with his "development" of Acie. A player needs a consistent role to develop, IMO. Acie would be better knowing that he will play 6 minutes every half than by playing:

2/17 23:27

2/18 3:48

2/23 14:39

2/25 8:04

3/2 2:34

That type of 'yo-yo' management isn't good for a young player, IMO.

[Cwell]

That is my main problem with his "development" of Acie. A player needs a consistent role to develop, IMO. Acie would be better knowing that he will play 6 minutes every half than by playing:

2/17 23:27

2/18 3:48

2/23 14:39

2/25 8:04

3/2 2:34

That type of 'yo-yo' management isn't good for a young player, IMO.

yeah and I wouldn't exactly say in your opinion when every coach in the NBA besides woody would agree with u,as well as all GM's and NBA heads. It's funny what guys like Shannon Brown and Trevor Ariza can provide for a team when given a consistent role.

Edited May 29, 2009 by Cwell

[NineOhTheRino]

Woody was a big J-Chill fan. Now he seems to favor Flip and JJ. Smoove is the bad *ss step son that you have to make nice with in order to keep the new wifey happy.

Oh well...at least the bad *ss produces in the playoffs.

Edited May 29, 2009 by NineOhTheRino

[hawkman]

You make yourself sound foolish. When Knight and Woodson realized after playing significant minutes for less than half of a season, Woodson realized Acie was not the guy? With that kind of logic, PG's like Tony Parker, Monta Ellis, Chris Duhon, Jarrett Jack, Jameer Nelson, Mo Williams, Rodney Stuckey or anyone else taken late rounds shouldn't be productive starters either... because none of them had to adjust to the NBA and improve before becoming starters. (sarcasm) When guys have the skill-set, like Acie Law has, GOOD coaches train and develop them to help them get better.

Don't get misled by the 2007-08 playoff appearance. The Hawks had no business in the post-season winning only 37 games. In fact, Woodson and his ridiculous strategy of "if it doesn't work... do it some more!" helped his team back into the playoffs by dropping four of the final five games, then not coming within 100 points of beating Boston in Boston. In that time, Law could have been developing so we are not in this position.

Holla!

Easy there, let's not get personal. It's just basketball. I just disagree that Acie wasn't given a fair shake. He was drafted to be the starter and it didn't work out plain and simple. He got minutes his Rookie season but maybe his play didn't meet Woody's expectations or something. Whatever the situation, BK saw fit to trade for Bibby and Acie's minutes went down from there. This past season we were in the Playoff hunt and Woody felt Flip gave us the most off the bench. He seemed less concerened with "developing" young players and more concerned with winning games and locking up the 4th seed. That's unfortunate for Acie, but I'd still like to see him do more with the time he's given. His effort could be more consistent even if his minutes aren't.

[Cwell]

Easy there, let's not get personal. It's just basketball. I just disagree that Acie wasn't given a fair shake. He was drafted to be the starter and it didn't work out plain and simple. He got minutes his Rookie season but maybe his play didn't meet Woody's expectations or something. Whatever the situation, BK saw fit to trade for Bibby and Acie's minutes went down from there. This past season we were in the Playoff hunt and Woody felt Flip gave us the most off the bench. He seemed less concerened with "developing" young players and more concerned with winning games and locking up the 4th seed. That's unfortunate for Acie, but I'd still like to see him do more with the time he's given. His effort could be more consistent even if his minutes aren't.

it didn't work out? what? he hasn't even had the chance to start after those few games before he was hurt. Even then he was showing improvement in the Charlotte game. He had 7 assists and no TO's before leaving. After coming back his minutes went down even though we were going NOWHERE with AJ. The one chance he got to start again last year was when AJ got suspended and the team looked very good against Portland and we outplayed there starters by far.but of course woody loves vets so he played Lue more minutes,he played through the entire ending of the game and we ended up losing because of it. lol at He couldn't beat out AJ and Lue,our best 5 last year was Acie,Joe,Marvin,Smoove,Al. If u hadn't noticed that's the regular starters with Law at the point.

The main reason Knight traded for Bibby was to get Acie more minutes and a better mentor for a while because everyone knew he was a rental since he was at the end of his contract. Knight made sure he got rid of AJ and Lue so Woody couldn't play favorites anymore. Instead Woody played Childress at the point,which was highly innefective and wayyy worse than what Acie could do on his worst day. That further showed woody's bias. Even when Acie started he never cracked 30 minutes,either Lue played more minutes of Acie play 1 or 2 more minutes.

[coachx]

it didn't work out? what? he hasn't even had the chance to start after those few games before he was hurt. Even then he was showing improvement in the Charlotte game. He had 7 assists and no TO's before leaving. After coming back his minutes went down even though we were going NOWHERE with AJ. The one chance he got to start again last year was when AJ got suspended and the team looked very good against Portland and we outplayed there starters by far.but of course woody loves vets so he played Lue more minutes,he played through the entire ending of the game and we ended up losing because of it. lol at He couldn't beat out AJ and Lue,our best 5 last year was Acie,Joe,Marvin,Smoove,Al. If u hadn't noticed that's the regular starters with Law at the point.

The main reason Knight traded for Bibby was to get Acie more minutes and a better mentor for a while because everyone knew he was a rental since he was at the end of his contract. Knight made sure he got rid of AJ and Lue so Woody couldn't play favorites anymore. Instead Woody played Childress at the point,which was highly innefective and wayyy worse than what Acie could do on his worst day. That further showed woody's bias. Even when Acie started he never cracked 30 minutes,either Lue played more minutes of Acie play 1 or 2 more minutes.

Agree 100% with you insite on BK's thinking on Bibby and Law. Its probably one of the reasons he wanted to fire Woody.

Everyone kows, but Woody, that PGs take more time and patience to develop. Expecially in his train wreck of an offense.

I also hated seeing Chillz at the point. It kept Chillz away from his strengths of running the floor and rebounding and stunted Acie Law's development b/c he got no playing time.

Edited May 29, 2009 by coachx

[AtLaS]

Flip was also one of the best 6th men in the NBA. Talking bad about Flip doesn't make Acie any better. Talking bad about Bibby doesn't make Acie any better. If Acie had played better when given the opportunity, chances are neither of those guys would be here right now. I just hope Acie isn't sitting around making excuses for himself like some around here are. If I were him, I'd be working my butt off in the gym and weight room so that when I am called upon, even if it's only for 10 minutes, those would be the best 10 minutes of my short career. Woody rewards all out effort, just ask Mario West.

Flip was not one of the best 6th men in the NBA. He's a chucker who just happened to find a coach that caters exactly to his offensive game, giving him the ball and let him shoot. He can't play PG or setup teammates at all. He turns it over too much. He's extremely inconsistent. If he's on than it's good, otherwise he's a cancer on the team because he does nothing else except play moderate D. Acie IMO would be a much better option because he can consistently get to the hole and even if he misses the layup the entire defense has to collapse which opens up offensive rebounds.

Regardless it didn't matter, Flip would be having an 0-10 game with lots of turnovers and not get yanked. Acie makes one mistake and he's done for 5 games. Players need consistent minutes to develop their game and confidence.

[AtLaS]

Agree 100% with you insite on BK's thinking on Bibby and Law. Its probably one of the reasons he wanted to fire Woody.

Everyone kows, but Woody, that PGs take more time and patience to develop. Expecially in his train wreck of an offense.

I also hated seeing Chillz at the point. It kept Chillz away from his strengths of running the floor and rebounding and stunted Acie Law's development b/c he got no playing time.

This is why I can't blame Smith for his offensive deficiencies until he gets a coach that will utilize him correctly.

[Cwell]

Flip was not one of the best 6th men in the NBA. He's a chucker who just happened to find a coach that caters exactly to his offensive game, giving him the ball and let him shoot. He can't play PG or setup teammates at all. He turns it over too much. He's extremely inconsistent. If he's on than it's good, otherwise he's a cancer on the team because he does nothing else except play moderate D. Acie IMO would be a much better option because he can consistently get to the hole and even if he misses the layup the entire defense has to collapse which opens up offensive rebounds.

Regardless it didn't matter, Flip would be having an 0-10 game with lots of turnovers and not get yanked. Acie makes one mistake and he's done for 5 games. Players need consistent minutes to develop their game and confidence.

exactly. I wonder how the hell do all these fans agree with all Woody's double standards ,but are quick to spit on the players?

Edited May 29, 2009 by Cwell

[coachx]

This is why I can't blame Smith for his offensive deficiencies until he gets a coach that will utilize him correctly.

I do not see how the the Law and Smith shave anything in common.

Smith is allowed to play heavy minutes even when he makes mistake. Smith has had 5 years of heavy minutes with little growth over the last 2 seasons.

Law does not get any minutes no matter how he plays. He has had no chance at all to grow as a player.

Edited May 29, 2009 by coachx