Acie Law IV

[Cwell]

Before the season started last year, I tried to bread down the minutes of each player. I had Acie pretty much splitting time at the point with Bibby. I need to find that thread to know exactly what I put down, but I think it was something similar to this:

PG: Bibby ( 28 ) . . Acie ( 20 )

G: JJ ( 32 ) . . Flip ( 10 ) . . Evans ( 6 )

SF: Marvin ( 28 ) . . Evans ( 14 ) . . JJ ( 6 )

PF: Smth ( 36 ) . . Horford ( 8 ) . . Marvin ( 4 )

C: Horford ( 28 ) . . Zaza ( 20 )

Total minutes:

JJ ( 38 )

Horford ( 36 )

Smith ( 36 )

Marvin ( 32 )

Bibby ( 28 )

Zaza ( 20 )

Evans ( 20 )

Acie ( 20 )

Flip ( 10 )

Then the season started, and of course, because of the flagrant foul in Game 7, Marvin is out the lineup for a game. That forces Woody to adjust the lineup. Mo starts for Marvin.

Game 1 @ Orlando:

- Mo plays 42 minutes, because he was solid defensively, and got on the boards ( 8 rebounds )

- Acie plays 16 minutes, and has 4 points, 4 rebs, and 2 assists

- Flip plays 23 minutes, and scores 14 points.

The Hawks beat the Magic by 14 that night.

Game 2 vs Philly

- Acie plays 13 minutes . . . scores 2 points and has 1 assist

- Flip plays 19 minutes . . scores 4 points ( 2 - 8 FG )

- Marvin only played 20 minutes

Hawks win by 13, mainly because JJ dropped 35 on the Sixers

Game 3 @ New Orleans

- Acie plays 12 minutes . . scores 1 point and has 2 assists

- Flip plays 26 minutes . . scores 14 points, 3 assits, and 2 steals ( also 3 - 6 from 3-pt range )

Game 4 vs Toronto

- Acie plays 13 minutes . . scores 2 points and has 4 assists

- Flip plays 23 minutes . . scores 16 points ( another good night from three . . 3 - 4 )

- Bibby hit 5 threes this game

This is the game in which Smoove got hurt, so Woody plays the entire bench. Horford got in early foul trouble, so it forced his hand to play both Solo and even Randolph Morris. Both did their job.

I break the first 4 games down like this, because you are seeing a pattern.

- The first thing you see is that Flip is a BALLER. Right from the jump he establishes himself as the scorer the Hawks has desperately longed for off the bench. In those first 4 games, he goes 17 - 39 FG ( 44% ) and 6 - 14 3FG ( 43% ). There is no doubt that he'd immeadiately made the case for himself to garner more playing time.

- Contrast that to Acie, who in those first 4 games, really didn't do anything special at all. He had some flashes in the Toronto game, with a few good passes. But overall, he's doing NOTHING to stand out. In the first 4 games, he's 4 - 15 FG ( 27% ) and 0 - 7 3FG ( 0% obviously ). Assist wise, he has 9 total assists, along with 3 turnovers, which gives him a 3 to 1 assist/to ratio. That's decent. But he doesn't have a single steal in those four games.

So now, you have a situation in which Flip is making a huge case to be a mid-20s minute guy a night off the bench. Law, on the other hand, has virtually did nothing to make a case for him to see more minutes. In fact, you could say that his lack of him knocking down the 3-ball, makes the case for his minutes to be reduced.

Remember folks . . we're 4 - 0 at this point as well.

So now go to Game 5 @ Oklahoma City

- With no Smith in the lineup, you now see Solo getting a chance to get minutes. He plays 22 minutes, has 5 points, 10 rebounds, and 2 blocked shots.

- Flip plays 27 minutes, and scores 14 points ( he was 5 - 14 FG . . but it was Flip that saved us in the 4th quarter by scoring 8 straight points to tie the game, after we were down 7 )

- Acie played 6 minutes . . scored no points and had 1 assist. Once again, he didn't even have a steal. He played all of his 6 minutes in the first half, with Woody opting not to go to him in the 2nd half

Hawks win by 4 . . . and we're 5 - 0

Game 6 @ Chicago

- if anything, Solo should be mad, because he only played 6 minutes this game. So why did he only play 6 minutes, if he's supposed to be taking up some of the slack for Smoove being out the lineup? Because . .

- Horford goes off, and scores 27 points and pulls down 17 rebounds and has 6 blocks, in 41 minutes of play

- Zaza has a solid 26 minutes of time, scoring 12 points and pulling down 8 rebounds.

- Flip has an off game, scoring only 5 points ( 1 - 5 FG ) in 22 minutes of play.

- Acie plays 8 minutes, and has GOOSE EGGS ACROSS THE BOARD . . 0 - 1 FG . . no points, rebounds, assists, or steals . . NOTHING.

What sticks out most about this game, is the +/- ratio. Every Hawks starter had a positive +/- ratio, with Bibby having a +20 and JJ having a +14. But all of the bench players had a negative +/- ratio. And who was the worst?

ACIE . . wtih a -17.

He only plays 8 minutes, but has a -17? That's almost impossible. But he was supposed to be "running the 2nd unit", while JJ, Marvin, and Bibby were on the bench. Hawks couldn't hit anything, while the Bulls went on a 9 - 1 run, and immeadiately got back within 4. Acie didn't take one shot during that 3 minute run.

Thank God for Bibby that game, because he comes right in and knocks down 2 threes and the lead immeadiatley goes back up to 10. Hawks win by 5.

*************

This is why I defend Woody folks. This is why I KNOW that everything that goes wrong with this team, isn't his fault. I can actually see why he does things, without being emotionally attached to a player that I like.

I like Acie. I think he could be a good player. But how can you justify playing a guy, that has NO EFFECT ON A GAME WHATSOEVER? The beginning of the season was his time to solidify himself into the rotation, and he FLAT OUT BLEW IT.

Yet, people want to blame Woody for Acie's lack of development, or the offense, or whatever. I'm sorry. The blame goes DIRECTLY ON ACIE. It has to. The same that the blame had to go on Salim, for his lack of consistent production.

Like Hawkman points out, the guy has to produce SOMETHING on his time on the court. He has to give the coach a reason to give him more playing time. If you add the 2 missed FGs he had in the Thunder and Bulls game, Acie shot 4 - 17 FG ( 24% ) . . with no three pointers . . and no steals . . during that 6 - 0 start we had.

So what is Woody supposed to do? Continue to play Acie 12 - 18 minutes a game, to get him more experience, and take minutes away from Flip, who has quickly proven to be an asset to the team? Or take minutes away from Bibby, who in November shot a blistering 48% FG and 47% 3FG?

Like Salim, Acie seems to excel during "scrub time". That's not enough folks. He has to start doing it within the flow of a game . . when the game is still in the balance. Unfortunately for Acie, he's not in a situation in which he's the best option at PG, but just needs some work. There is no AJ and Lue in front of him anymore. He's going to actually have to beat out the 2 PGs in head of him, to prove he deserves more playing time.

If he doesn't, he's going to be buried on the bench FOREVER, and quickly find himself in the same position that a Marcus Williams ( of UCONN ) finds himself in. Remember him?

I see what you're saying but that doesn't include all the circumstances and have u ever heard of slumps. Players have had bad stretches before and all these coaches still play their players till they get through it. and they eventually get better because of it. Acie has never had that luxury or playing through the good and bad and learning from it. He was getting yanked for the littlest things as a rookie and still does. Sasha Vujicic or however u spell it has shot horribly all post-season but u don't see Phil Jackson just not play him,because eventually he'll get some to fall. J.R. Smith is the same way. Just put the ball in Acie's hands and let him go create. Having Joe and Flip hog it while he's stuck in the corner doesn't help at all. Everytime he's shown flashes he had the ball in his hands,he wasn't watching Joe or flip go one on one.

Edited June 2, 2009 by Cwell

[DrReality]

Anyone heard about what they are having Law do over the summer. Could be a critical time for him.

[Cwell]

Why don't we run more plays for him like they did here?

oh and sorry for the slowness. It was my first time making one.

[hawkman]

No, moron, but it is clear Woody developed a negative bias towards Acie early on and has not given him the time that is sufficient to develop a player in this league.

And, Northcyde, putting your eggs in the same basket as this CLOWN just further adds to my ever declining respect for your opinions. You made the valid point that Flip was able to assert himself early in the season when given nearly equal minutes as Acie. But you don't seem to take into consideration that Flip is an old man in this league, has played for coaches where he had a defined role, and therefore feels more comfortable "jumping into the fire" where all that has been said all along is that Acie needs to be given time so he can feel comfortable! Of course, you also neglect to mention statistics like turnovers and FG% that favor Acie.

Acie needs time and to be trusted to execute a role. Hasn't had that. He WILL improve and show why he was so highly thought of out of college if he leaves.

Easy there dude. There's no need to get personal. It's just a basketball dicussion and I was only joking. I don't have any ill will against Acie or anyone who wants to see him play more.

[Diesel]

Why don't we run more plays for him like they did here?

oh and sorry for the slowness. It was my first time making one.

Wow, that's a nice play. Same play that Cleveland beat us over the head with. Mo Williams and the give and go (down the lane). Acie can run that. However, even in that play, Acie is not being a true PG. He's being a decoy and then a scorer. This is Woody mentality. I want my PG to be a decoy or a scorer. That's the problem. Still, I think that Acie's offense is better than just a scorer. He can get people involved but we have to develop him. Unfortunely, I believe Sund is going to bring back Bibby.

[Diesel]

Atlas, Acie is in the same situation that Shelden was in. It got to a point with Shelden, that the team was better off opting to give Zaza more minutes, than Shelden, because Zaza could make things happen immeadiately with his energy. Shelden's lackluster play was part of the reason why Zaza was able to get out of Woody's "Doghouse".

Shelden played pretty good when he got the minutes. I think Diesel pointed out once that when Shelden played 30+ minutes, he averaged almost a double-double. But we can't bench Josh Smith, in order for Shelden to play. So Shelden had to impact a game whether he plays 8 minutes or 28 minutes. Once Horford got here, and immeadately produced like people thought Shelden should've, it was a wrap for him.

The same went for Salim. We didn't have time for Salim to go 0 - 4, before he "warmed up" and started to make shots. And it made no sense for Woody to opt to play Salim, when Lue could immeadiately come into a game and start making shots.

In those first few games in the beginning of this season, Woody was definitely making a commitment to play Acie at then end of the first/beginning of the 2nd quarters . . and at the end of the 3rd/beginning of the 4th quarters. He was going to get 10 - 15 minutes a game easily. If he'd played well during those stretches, I doubt very seriously that Woody would've had a quick trigger and yanked him out of a game. But Acie made it easy on Woody.

Acie just has to take the playing time, and maximize it. Simple as that.

I think you're on target here. However, I think also that you can't forget the unorganization. We bring in Shelden out of Duke's ultimate organization and tell him... OK, do the dirty work and get your points that way. Well, Shelden is use to scripted offense. Dirty work means, get garbage points. As you may have watched, even Horf struggles with that now. Horf is getting to the point where he needs some type of structure to his game because he is developing beyond being just a garbage player on offense. The real difference between Shelden and Horf is Horf was definitely more active and Shelden was more needy of structure (at the time). During the playoffs, we watched Horf struggle due to lack of structure. People this problem won't stop just because a new year rolls around. We have to have some offensive structure. Right now, we are iso joeing this team to death.

[Cwell]

Wow, that's a nice play. Same play that Cleveland beat us over the head with. Mo Williams and the give and go (down the lane). Acie can run that. However, even in that play, Acie is not being a true PG. He's being a decoy and then a scorer. This is Woody mentality. I want my PG to be a decoy or a scorer. That's the problem. Still, I think that Acie's offense is better than just a scorer. He can get people involved but we have to develop him. Unfortunely, I believe Sund is going to bring back Bibby.

yeah but anything is better than him just standing in the corner.

[Diesel]

Beautiful post.

Folks always like to cite his "dribble penetration," but penetration is worthless if it doesn't result in points, either by the player penetrating or via assist.

I'm not saying Law can't play, but he was given an opportunity to justify minutes and he got beaten out for them fair & square.

If he's such a talent, then why can't he earn minutes? Blaming Woody , who has shown plenty of willingness to play his best players regardless of age, entirely seems pretty fruitless.

Better to ask Acie to step up in practice and make Woody play him.

I don't think Woody has shown a willingness to play "his best players".... Woody is a players coach... i.e. a vets coach. If you are a vet in this league and if you don't require much guidance, you can play for Woody. Immediately. If not, why is Mo Evans on the floor? Mo Sucks. Every blue moon, Mo might have a decent game, but for the most part, he sucks. Why is Bibby playing so much and Acie so little. Woody is not a developer.. and worse, he has no structure. Kenny Smith had a great time in the playoffs diagramming our problems. The main one is dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble...., dribble,dribble, dribble..... Shoot. This is our play. It is what we did in the first round and the second round of the playoffs. The TNT crew laughed out loud at us every night because we don't have a real offense. Not even pick and roll. Acie has such potential to be a good pick and roll PG, pick and pop PG, a motion PG. However, we have him as an offensive decoy in the Iso Joe offense. Then you wonder, why hasn't he earned more time on the floor. Well, when Joe is dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble...., dribble,dribble, dribble..... Shoot... your PER is going to be low, your assists are going to be low, your scoring is going to suck. Woody should just say, I want another SG and we don't need a PG... because that's how he will coach it.

yeah but anything is better than him just standing in the corner.

I agree...

[Wurider05]

I agree with you Diesel.

I think that Woody needs to spread the offense around. I mean if JJ needs 40 minutes a game to be an all star then maybe he doesn't deserve to be an all star. With the exception of Acie (who gets yanked) I think the only positive to come out of this is that our players are learning to play without the ball.

[BusBoyIsBack]

I haven't given up on Acie Law per say, but this draft is far too deep at PG not to pick one.

[AtLaS]

I haven't given up on Acie Law per say, but this draft is far too deep at PG not to pick one.

This is how I look at it.

[NineOhTheRino]

giving up on Acie Law would be the biggest mistake this team has made since they let the great Cliff Levingston go to the bulls.

[Packfill]

I wonder if GS would be interested in Law. They have some wings that would be useful for the Hawks.

Good call!