Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen

[Admin]

Good job getting this thing WAY of topic guys ... sheesh who knew there would be so much hostility over Transformers! And I can't believe I'm the only one on this site who has seen it thus far.

[AHF]

Good job getting this thing WAY of topic guys ... sheesh who knew there would be so much hostility over Transformers! And I can't believe I'm the only one on this site who has seen it thus far.

I will see it on video, although I am sure it will not do Megan Fox justice.

[Dsinner]

For the record Dolf, I am going to see it tonight and I hate F'n Brittney Spears (how that comparison came about I have no idea). I couldn't disagree with Hot and (to an extent) AHF more. These types of movies are, in fact, needed. They aren't my favorite genre, by a long shot, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with a plotless action movie from time to time (as long as it entertains). Don't get me wrong, I love a good thought out plot driven film, but we are talking about a cartoon based movie guys.

The director may seem lazy in doing these types of films but it's what he's good at. Whether or not you like them is irrelevant as millions would disagree (not that that fact is a good barometer). There are plenty of "action" movies that actually do suck but as far as "action" movies go, he's one of the best. If you don't like "action" movies I guess I can understand you not being a huge fan of his but somebody has to do them and I'm glad it's not somebody who actually does suck at it (ever see Independence day?).

Bottom line is action movies are for the mass public (and usually do stink) and while they aren't usually on the top of my to see list there are a select few that are and Transformers is one of them. It's very entertaining and, considering it is plotless, there is a lot to be said for that.

[Plainview1981]

For the record Dolf, I am going to see it tonight and I hate F'n Brittney Spears (how that comparison came about I have no idea). I couldn't disagree with Hot and (to an extent) AHF more. These types of movies are, in fact, needed. They aren't my favorite genre, by a long shot, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with a plotless action movie from time to time (as long as it entertains). Don't get me wrong, I love a good thought out plot driven film, but we are talking about a cartoon based movie guys.

The director may seem lazy in doing these types of films but it's what he's good at. Whether or not you like them is irrelevant as millions would disagree (not that that fact is a good barometer). There are plenty of "action" movies that actually do suck but as far as "action" movies go, he's one of the best. If you don't like "action" movies I guess I can understand you not being a huge fan of his but somebody has to do them and I'm glad it's not somebody who actually does suck at it (ever see Independence day?).

Bottom line is action movies are for the mass public (and usually do stink) and while they aren't usually on the top of my to see list there are a select few that are and Transformers is one of them. It's very entertaining and, considering it is plotless, there is a lot to be said for that.

The reason I link Britney Spears and these movies together is because they're bubblegum commercial junk.

These types of movies are, in fact, needed. They aren't my favorite genre, by a long shot, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with a plotless action movie from time to time (as long as it entertains). Don't get me wrong, I love a good thought out plot driven film,

You can have action movies that have GOOD humor (That doesn't include robots humping a girls leg), or have good plots, or or are simply well written.

Die Hard

Jason Bourne

Casino Royale

Minority Report

Just to name a few. It's not about expecting everything to be Gone with the Wind or The Godfather. You can have your cake and eat it to.

I hear people say "It's not that bad". That really inspires somebody to spend money in this weak economy? it's not that bad?

Let me get into my car and drive right down to the theater to see something that's "Not that bad".

If these movies success didn't potentially prevent me from getting to see what I want to see, I'd care a lot less.

Public Enemies will probably be a good action flick. I've heard it has plenty of good shoot outs and stuff. So yeah, not every movie has to reach to be the best. But I'll take a movie that reaches for something instead of dumbing down and sinking to nearly the lowest level possible.

Dolfan, how far have we really got off topic? Maybe a bit, but Bay does relate to Transformers because he made these same movies.

Bay is a shallow version of Steven Spielberg. That's what he is.

Edited June 29, 2009 by Hotlanta1981

[AHF]

For the record Dolf, I am going to see it tonight and I hate F'n Brittney Spears (how that comparison came about I have no idea). I couldn't disagree with Hot and (to an extent) AHF more. These types of movies are, in fact, needed. They aren't my favorite genre, by a long shot, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with a plotless action movie from time to time (as long as it entertains). Don't get me wrong, I love a good thought out plot driven film, but we are talking about a cartoon based movie guys.

The same could be said for the latest Batman movies, Ironman, the X-men movies, etc. but they bring a lot more to the table, IMO.

The director may seem lazy in doing these types of films but it's what he's good at. Whether or not you like them is irrelevant as millions would disagree (not that that fact is a good barometer). There are plenty of "action" movies that actually do suck but as far as "action" movies go, he's one of the best. If you don't like "action" movies I guess I can understand you not being a huge fan of his but somebody has to do them and I'm glad it's not somebody who actually does suck at it (ever see Independence day?).

Bottom line is action movies are for the mass public (and usually do stink) and while they aren't usually on the top of my to see list there are a select few that are and Transformers is one of them. It's very entertaining and, considering it is plotless, there is a lot to be said for that.

I don't mind action movies at all but vastly prefer Terminator, Alien, the Dark Knight, Ironman, etc. to anything Bay has ever done.

That said, I agree with you that there is definitely a place for popcorn movies. I just don't think Bay does a good job with them. Something like Men in Black to me is vastly superior to Armagedon. Jurassic Park is vastly superior to the first Transformers movie. Etc.

I haven't seen his movie - The Island, which is supposed to be more interesting. Perhaps that tries to inject a little bit of smarts into the movie but I don't think you have to equate popcorn movie with blandness of script and a lack of significant characters which is what I associate with Michael Bay.

My resentment towards him is that I feel like he is shooting for the lowest common denominator when I watch his movies.

[Dsinner]

The same could be said for the latest Batman movies, Ironman, the X-men movies, etc. but they bring a lot more to the table, IMO.

I don't mind action movies at all but vastly prefer Terminator, Alien, the Dark Knight, Ironman, etc. to anything Bay has ever done.

That said, I agree with you that there is definitely a place for popcorn movies. I just don't think Bay does a good job with them. Something like Men in Black to me is vastly superior to Armagedon. Jurassic Park is vastly superior to the first Transformers movie. Etc.

I haven't seen his movie - The Island, which is supposed to be more interesting. Perhaps that tries to inject a little bit of smarts into the movie but I don't think you have to equate popcorn movie with blandness of script and a lack of significant characters which is what I associate with Michael Bay.

My resentment towards him is that I feel like he is shooting for the lowest common denominator when I watch his movies.

Hmm, that goes to show how much I follow action movies. I haven't a clue who most of those other action movies directors are. After reading your post I agree completely that he's not as good as some of the others. In fact, I was under the impression that he acutally directed a few you listed. He's not the worst by far, but no where near some of the ones you've mentioned.

[Plainview1981]

The same could be said for the latest Batman movies, Ironman, the X-men movies, etc. but they bring a lot more to the table, IMO.

I don't mind action movies at all but vastly prefer Terminator, Alien, the Dark Knight, Ironman, etc. to anything Bay has ever done.

That said, I agree with you that there is definitely a place for popcorn movies. I just don't think Bay does a good job with them. Something like Men in Black to me is vastly superior to Armagedon. Jurassic Park is vastly superior to the first Transformers movie. Etc.

I haven't seen his movie - The Island, which is supposed to be more interesting. Perhaps that tries to inject a little bit of smarts into the movie but I don't think you have to equate popcorn movie with blandness of script and a lack of significant characters which is what I associate with Michael Bay.

My resentment towards him is that I feel like he is shooting for the lowest common denominator when I watch his movies.

Bay is also funding that needless Nightmare on Elm Street remake. And a needless 'The Birds" remake.

[Dsinner]

The reason I link Britney Spears and these movies together is because they're bubblegum commercial junk.

You can have action movies that have GOOD humor (That doesn't include robots humping a girls leg), or have good plots, or or are simply well written.

Die Hard

Jason Bourne

Casino Royale

Minority Report

Just to name a few. It's not about expecting everything to be Gone with the Wind or The Godfather. You can have your cake and eat it to.

If these movies success didn't potentially prevent me from getting to see what I want to see, I'd care a lot less.

After even more further review, maybe I am simply giving him more of a pass than I should simply because I am caught up in the nostalgia that is Transformers. I just don't see you being able to come up with a much better plot for a cartoon based movie. The Die Hards and the like were written as a plot first, with humour and explosions written into it. The Transformer's "script" was written years ago and all that was really left was to not botch it up (ie. First incredible Hulk). It's no X-Men but it's no Leathel Weapon 4 either.

I'm not sure I've heard anyone say that this movie was just "ok." I've heard nothing but good things about it, except from those who don't like him at all (which I can count on one hand). I also don't get how it keeps you from seeing other movies (you are in Atlanta right?)especially given your strict standards (and for the record I thought you hated No Country)?

I guess I just thought the first one was very entertaining for what it is and I expect the 2nd one to be as well. I generally only see certain movies at the theatres (mostly summer actions that make my list) and this is going to be one of those.

[Dsinner]

Bay is also funding that needless Nightmare on Elm Street remake. And a needless 'The Birds" remake.

Now see I refuse to go see ANY of the classic horror remakes that I remember growing up. I still enjoy those memories.

[Admin]

For the record Dolf, I am going to see it tonight and I hate F'n Brittney Spears (how that comparison came about I have no idea). I couldn't disagree with Hot and (to an extent) AHF more. These types of movies are, in fact, needed. They aren't my favorite genre, by a long shot, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with a plotless action movie from time to time (as long as it entertains). Don't get me wrong, I love a good thought out plot driven film, but we are talking about a cartoon based movie guys.

The director may seem lazy in doing these types of films but it's what he's good at. Whether or not you like them is irrelevant as millions would disagree (not that that fact is a good barometer). There are plenty of "action" movies that actually do suck but as far as "action" movies go, he's one of the best. If you don't like "action" movies I guess I can understand you not being a huge fan of his but somebody has to do them and I'm glad it's not somebody who actually does suck at it (ever see Independence day?).

Bottom line is action movies are for the mass public (and usually do stink) and while they aren't usually on the top of my to see list there are a select few that are and Transformers is one of them. It's very entertaining and, considering it is plotless, there is a lot to be said for that.

I'll be interested to hear what your thoughts are after you see the movie. I think that you'll enjoy it and you may think that it was more enjoyable than the first movie.

As to the rest of the comments going on in this thread I really have nothing much to say other than I'm sorry you can't enjoy a movie that doesn't have a deep plot and it's especially sad to hear that someone would wish death on him just because they don't like his movies. And Hots considering that you don't even go to the theater like this which is what is really required to even remotely appreciate it, it's not surprising to me that you wouldn't like them.

[Admin]

The same could be said for the latest Batman movies, Ironman, the X-men movies, etc. but they bring a lot more to the table, IMO.

I don't mind action movies at all but vastly prefer Terminator, Alien, the Dark Knight, Ironman, etc. to anything Bay has ever done.

That said, I agree with you that there is definitely a place for popcorn movies. I just don't think Bay does a good job with them. Something like Men in Black to me is vastly superior to Armagedon. Jurassic Park is vastly superior to the first Transformers movie. Etc.

I haven't seen his movie - The Island, which is supposed to be more interesting. Perhaps that tries to inject a little bit of smarts into the movie but I don't think you have to equate popcorn movie with blandness of script and a lack of significant characters which is what I associate with Michael Bay.

My resentment towards him is that I feel like he is shooting for the lowest common denominator when I watch his movies.

Just curious but what makes Men In Black better than Armageddon? I thought both were good movies but if either was even the slightest bit deep it was Armageddon.

Both Transformers movies have been vastly superior to the last 2 Terminator movies. The X-Men movies have been interesting but far from spectactular. I guess I just don't see Bay's movies as being any different than the ones that you listed.

I will agree that the latest Batman movie was vastly superior to Transformers.

[Plainview1981]

Just curious but what makes Men In Black better than Armageddon? I thought both were good movies but if either was even the slightest bit deep it was Armageddon.

Both Transformers movies have been vastly superior to the last 2 Terminator movies. The X-Men movies have been interesting but far from spectactular. I guess I just don't see Bay's movies as being any different than the ones that you listed.

I will agree that the latest Batman movie was vastly superior to Transformers.

Well for one thing MIB doesn't need a cheesy Aerosmith song for cheap eye rolling manipulation. Second, like a lot of Bay movies, it's overlong and overstays it's welcome. Also, I think the lame romantic subplot drags the movie down. It all feels cheap and over drama, and honestly I guess that's why Bay does what he does. He can't do anything worthwhile outside of effects. Oh, Ben Affleck should stay away from movies. His brother is a much better actor.

Men in Black is basically a 90's take on Ghostbusters. Not as good, but it's of the same vibe. It comes off as a good honest fun flick. It's not a perfect movie, but the chemistry between Jones and Smith rivals that of Riggs and Murtaugh. That's why Men In Black works so well I think. I'm not a big fan of Will Smith as I've made clear before, but I think this is a good fun flick. That Bay movie is a disaster flick with cheap manipulation.

Bay like Roland Emmerich often uses a combo action with exploitation. You think Pearl Harbor was made for any reason other than Titanic belong successful? There just isn't anything honest about Bay's work. Even a guy like Spielberg takes breaks from action movies and does things like Munich and Schindler's List. He's just a pure crowd exploiter. Like a politician. Even Arnie took breaks from action to do some comedies.

I can't speak about X-Men as I have no idea about it.

Edited June 30, 2009 by Hotlanta1981

[Admin]

Well for one thing MIB doesn't need a cheesy Aerosmith song for cheap eye rolling manipulation. Second, like a lot of Bay movies, it's overlong and overstays it's welcome. Also, I think the lame romantic subplot drags the movie down. It all feels cheap and over drama, and honestly I guess that's why Bay does what he does. He can't do anything worthwhile outside of effects. Oh, Ben Affleck should stay away from movies. His brother is a much better actor.

Men in Black is basically a 90's take on Ghostbusters. Not as good, but it's of the same vibe. It comes off as a good honest fun flick. It's not a perfect movie, but the chemistry between Jones and Smith rivals that of Riggs and Murtaugh. That's why Men In Black works so well I think. I'm not a big fan of Will Smith as I've made clear before, but I think this is a good fun flick. That Bay movie is a disaster flick with cheap manipulation.

Bay like Roland Emmerich often uses a combo action with exploitation. You think Pearl Harbor was made for any reason other than Titanic belong successful? There just isn't anything honest about Bay's work. Even a guy like Spielberg takes breaks from action movies and does things like Munich and Schindler's List. He's just a pure crowd exploiter. Like a politician. Even Arnie took breaks from action to do some comedies.

I can't speak about X-Men as I have no idea about it.

Just a cheesy Will Smith song AND video, right?

[mattlanta]

Filipino? My first wife was Filipino so please don't take offense to this question...Is your fav Hawks player Flip Murray? :-)

I don't see how that would be offensive. But no, my favorite Hawks player is... that's a tough question lol. Josh Smith for excitement. Al Horford for hustle and hard work. And Joe Johnson because he's our All-Star. :P I think if Childress came back he'd be on top of the list though.

Edited June 30, 2009 by Libid21

[Plainview1981]

Just a cheesy Will Smith song AND video, right?

Men In Black is a comedy. Bay has just got to add cheesy music to his cheesy love angle. I'm not a rap fan, but "I don't Wanna Miss a Thing" is one of the worst songs ever by a "rock" band. No wonder Aerosmith lost c readability to most of those outside of 90's MTV fans.

Bay takes a more serious type of plot and covers it with cheese. You take a pretty serious type of subject and throw a cheesy love angle into it with the lame over dramatic song and it's just damn painful.

Edited June 30, 2009 by Hotlanta1981

[AHF]

Men In Black is a comedy. Bay has just got to add cheesy music to his cheesy love angle. I'm not a rap fan, but "I don't Wanna Miss a Thing" is one of the worst songs ever by a "rock" band. No wonder Aerosmith lost c readability to most of those outside of 90's MTV fans.

The Aerosmith song isn't significant in the movie for me, but I agree that is a terrible song and part of the general degredation of an excellent rock band into a cheesy ballad band.

Bay takes a more serious type of plot and covers it with cheese. You take a pretty serious type of subject and throw a cheesy love angle into it with the lame over dramatic song and it's just damn painful.

I think this is true.

The big difference for me in Armaggedon versus MIB, Jurassic Park, etc. is how memorable the characters are (none from Armaggedon - great combo in MIB) and intelligence of the movie.

MIB is clearly a popcorn flick but at least it gives us moments like Jay killing "Tiffany" and explaining why she was the threat to humanity while the aliens were not. There are several moments like that with Kay and neuralizer and the whole idea of the MIB group is reasonably interesting - the whole stripping of identity, last suit you'll wear, keeping aliens like Dennis Rodman under wraps, etc.

Zed: May I ask why you felt little Tiffany deserved to die?

James Edwards: Well, she was the only one that actually seemed dangerous at the time, sir.

Zed: How'd you come to that conclusion?

James Edwards: Well, first I was gonna pop this guy hanging from the street light, and I realized, y'know, he's just working out. I mean, how would I feel if somebody come runnin' in the gym and bust me in my *ss while I'm on the treadmill? Then I saw this snarling beast guy, and I noticed he had a tissue in his hand, and I'm realizing, y'know, he's not snarling, he's sneezing. Y'know, ain't no real threat there. Then I saw little Tiffany. I'm thinking, y'know, eight-year-old white girl, middle of the ghetto, bunch of monsters, this time of night with quantum physics books? She about to start some s***, Zed. She's about eight years old, those books are WAY too advanced for her. If you ask me, I'd say she's up to something. And to be honest, I'd appreciate it if you eased up off my back about it.

[pause]

James Edwards: Or do I owe her an apology?

[pauses again]

James Edwards: That's a good shot though...

Armaggedon gives us classic dialogue like this:

Harry Stamper: I have been drilling holes in the earth for thirty years. And I have never, *never* missed a depth that I have aimed for. And by God, I am not gonna miss this one. I will make 800 feet.

Chick: 42 seconds.

Harry Stamper: But I can't do it alone, Colonel. I need your help.

Colonel William Sharp: You swear on your daughter's life, on my family's, that you can hit that mark.

Harry Stamper: I will make 800 feet. I swear to God I will.

Colonel William Sharp: Then let's turn this bomb off.

gag

Look, I am not saying I could never enjoy a Bay film and I hope I enjoy the second Transformers movie when I see it. I haven't so I can't comment on it. However, I can say that as a director I am a big not-fan of Michael Bay's and that when I see his name associated with a movie, "this movie is going to be majorly dumbed down."

[coachx]

Just curious, how many other squakers grew up with the transformers, go-bots and he-man as some of their favorite cartoons.

Yep..........all of those plus Thundercats.

I still have the original Transformers movie on VHS............some where.

[coachx]

MAn I grew up with Transformers, Go_bots, He-Man, GI Joe, Thundercats, Brave Starr, Centurions, etc. I even had the Castle Greyskull toy!!!! They don't have real cartoons anymore this Hannah Montana crap is ruining the youth. Back in the 80's a man could be a man and had man toys!! Now MJ is gone, Regan is dead etc what is going on today!!!

Centurions !

I forgot all about them.

Nice flash back to the puppy years.

[Dsinner]

I'll be interested to hear what your thoughts are after you see the movie. I think that you'll enjoy it and you may think that it was more enjoyable than the first movie.

Wasn't able to see it (wife became sick). We're shooting for Wed. night though. I'll post back with my thoughts.

[Dsinner]

I don't see how that would be offensive.

Oh, I always called her my little "Flip". I was under the impression that term (depending on it's context) could be taken offensive by Filipinos. Maybe she lied. It wasn't the only time lol.