Marvin has done nothing to earn 8 Million per.

[itsslomotionbaby]

You know a lot has been made about Marvin's Huge 4th quarter shots. However, the truth is that he has only hit 2 of those. One against the Celtics... Pierce came back and beat us with a reply. The other against the Wizards. In a game where we had neither Smoove nor Horf.

well our wanabe superstar jj did not hit any 4th qtr. shots to win the game, even on prime time TV.

[Diesel]

well our wanabe superstar jj did not hit any 4th qtr. shots to win the game, even on prime time TV.

How are you going to send an attack at the guy that keeps us in most games?

He led us in PPG, APG, and was 4th in reboundiing...

What else do you want from him?

Sell hotdogs and beers?

Shake when you're finished?

Babysit?

I'm not saying that he don't need to improve... but to say that he hasn't hit a 4th qtr game winner when he's the reason we're even in the game is kinda funny.

[AHF]

He is posioned by Marvin being selected 2nd and Shelden being taken 5th. Diesel will never get over these two draft picks until both are gone lmao....

Diesel loves Shelden. He has no problem with that pick and recently said that Shelden may be the second best big man from that class. It is Marvin he can't get over being the 2nd pick in that draft.

[Diesel]

Diesel loves Shelden. He has no problem with that pick and recently said that Shelden may be the second best big man from that class. It is Marvin he can't get over being the 2nd pick in that draft.

I don't love Shelden!! I just didn't mind the pick at the time. As far as bigs in that draft. I think he's probably the second best big that we should have considered early out of that class. Sorry but nobody would have picked Milsap 5th. My statement speak more to the weakness of the class than the strength of Shelden.

[AHF]

I don't love Shelden!! I just didn't mind the pick at the time. As far as bigs in that draft. I think he's probably the second best big that we should have considered early out of that class. Sorry but nobody would have picked Milsap 5th. My statement speak more to the weakness of the class than the strength of Shelden.

Sorry for saying you love Shelden. It is probably more accurate to say you were one of his bigger supporters and one of the people who was least likely to second-guess the pick after the fact.

The statement you made, though, wasn't talking about whether he was worth it at the time of the draft. It was talking about now.

At the time, Shelden was the best big in his draft class (after Aldridge). Hell, he still might be.

First, you made a point about Shelden being the second best big in the class at the time of the draft. I can understand that.

Second, there is the part about saying "he still might be" that makes me scratch my head. He obviously isn't still the best big in his draft class after Aldridge.

Regardless, my point was that your view and treatment of Shelden is very different from your view and treatment of Marvin and that the poster who lumped them together in saying you needed to get over this picks should not have included Shelden. You are over the Shelden pick and rarely have anything critical to say about it other than wishing it would have worked out better but understanding that we needed some interior muscle at the time of the draft.

Edited July 20, 2009 by AHF

[Diesel]

Sorry for saying you love Shelden. It is probably more accurate to say you were one of his bigger supporters and one of the people who was least likely to second-guess the pick after the fact.

The statement you made, though, wasn't talking about whether he was worth it at the time of the draft. It was talking about now.

First, you made a point about Shelden being the second best big in the class at the time of the draft. I can understand that.

Second, there is the part about saying "he still might be" that makes me scratch my head. He obviously isn't still the best big in his draft class after Aldridge.

Regardless, my point was that your view and treatment of Shelden is very different from your view and treatment of Marvin and that the poster who lumped them together in saying you needed to get over this picks should not have included Shelden. You are over the Shelden pick and rarely have anything critical to say about it other than wishing it would have worked out better but understanding that we needed some interior muscle at the time of the draft.

I make no bones about it. I think that BK would have been fired a lot earlier had he not gone after a big in the 2006 draft. He had taken Marvin at #2... when we already had 5 Sfs on the roster... and Marvin was a flop in comparison to what we could have had.

I did like Roy, but after Roy snubbed us twice, there was no room on our roster for him... Plus, he wasn't a big.

Shelden (based on his college #s) fit our needs.

My point about still might be is that aside from Milsap's year this year... I don't think any of the bigs that came after Shelden has done anything.

I mean, you're trying to paint me as some Shelden kuck or something... but let's go down the list:

1. Patrick OBryant.

2. Sear Sene

3. Hilton Armstrong

4. Cedrick Simmons

5. Pecherov

6. Josh Boone

7. Joel Freeland.

8. Solo

9. Paul Davis

10. Craig Smith

11. Perovic

12. Alexander Johnson

13. Milsap

14. Powe

15. Hollins

Now understand what I'm saying. Once you go past Solo.. all of those guys could have been picked up with Solo's pick. Of the first rounders, I'm sure that Shelden is the better of them. Just if you look at his first season with us: 5.5, 5.4, 0.5 in 18.6 mpg.

Again, this is not a draft that proved to be good for bigs.

[Buzzard]

Last time I looked Teke. I'm not a mod. If I were a mod making insulting statements and then closing threads, that would be one issue. However, if you look through these post, you need to notice how many times I have been insulted? You can't wear blinders to the insults that I have received (especially from Buzzard) then call me down when I say something so mild as like your name suggests.... The record already states how I feel about certain things teke... but will there continue to be this selective moderation?

Diesel I don't call you names or cuss you out. If me posting that your post/threads make me laugh hurt your feelings, I am sorry. But sometimes I do not get your logic. I will give you a few examples just from this thread...

1-Assisted scoring.That is always going to be a weak stat for a jumpshooter by any name.

2-Chilz not getting a contract offer over not one but two free agent signing periods.

3-Smooves late contract offer in August of last year.

4-Player X gets X amount of dollars "proves" he is worth that amount. By that logic there is no such thing as underpaid or overpaid; and every GM feels the same way about every player as it concerns their worth.

You used all 4 of the above to argue and prove Marvins' worth in this thread. I do not call people names or cuss them out, but sometimes I cannot help it if I laugh....sorry man I will truly try and control that better

Edited July 21, 2009 by Buzzard

[Buzzard]

Diesel loves Shelden. He has no problem with that pick and recently said that Shelden may be the second best big man from that class. It is Marvin he can't get over being the 2nd pick in that draft.

I know that he loves the Shelden pick; but I also think it helps now that he is gone. At least we do not have to look through any Shelden, Horford, Smoove lineup possibilities when he wants to trade Marvin again.....

[Diesel]

4-Player X gets X amount of dollars "proves" he is worth that amount. By that logic there is no such thing as underpaid or overpaid; and every GM feels the same way about every player as it concerns their worth.

By what standard? I mean, if you want to talk overpaid, underpaid... Every player in the league is overpaid. So you can't use the average guy's perspective. The only other perspective that you can use is other players. Well who sets that standard? The salaries themselves.

For instance.

There was a time long ago... Koncak got a contract for 6 years 13 Million dollars. He was making more than Nique, Willis, Pat Ewing, and Micheal Jordan.

He was definitely overpaid back then. However, that was the price to keep him. Kasten wanted to keep him, so Kasten made the call. However, today.. we would consider him paid just right.

So even within players there's no static scale.

Now, I tried to compare Marvin to other players in his same situation. YOU Balked at that and said "too many conditions".

I then said let the Market Decide. YOU NOW balk at that.

The players worth is in the eye of the beholder. IF Detroit floats Marvin a 3 year 25 Million dollar deal ... then to them, that's how much he's worth.

When I say that Marvin has done nothing to earn 8 Million, I am talking about for the Hawks.

[Admin]

After 251 posts in this thread has ANYONE had their opinion on this matter swayed either direction? I highly doubt it.

[gsuteke]

I thought this one was dieing yesterday.

[Admin]

I thought this one was dieing yesterday.

This thread is starting to feel like a Friday the 13th movie!

[gsuteke]

Let's pack it up and move it to it's final resting place -

The "Hawksquawk Classics" forum

[Plainview1981]

After 251 posts in this thread has ANYONE had their opinion on this matter swayed either direction? I highly doubt it.

That's why I bailed on these threads yesterday.

[AHF]

Let's pack it up and move it to it's final resting place -

The "Hawksquawk Classics" forum

Not deserving, IMO. Some decent debate but nothing particularly notable or entertaining. Most of this debate has been seen before and will be seen again.

[Diesel]

We both know that there are other factors as to the results of the poll. I'm just glad to see that there were many who agreed with me that Marvin hasn't done anything to earn 8 per over 5 years. I wouldn't have a problem with 7 per over 3 or maybe something simlar to what Ariza is getting. I just think it would be a mistake... a Speedy Claxton type mistake to give Marvin 8 per over 5 years. At 8 per.. it's going to be hard to trade him because the position is so easy to fill with a dime a dozen Sf ( at much cheaper). 8+ Million dollar Sfs make impacts and carry teams. Butler is a team leader. Granger is a team leader. Turk was a team leader. Lewis was a team leader. Nobody here can name a 4th option that's making 8+ Million. Even when PTL had all those superstars and contract money flowed like a river... their 4th option (Wallace) was not making 8+ Million per.

How's that poll now?