Marvin has done nothing to earn 8 Million per.

[ShooterMcGavin]

Do you agree or disagree that Marvin shouldn't be considered with Lebron, Anthony, Granger?

Honestly, do you think that his level doesn't make a difference?

Dude, you are flipping off the deep end. Are you seriously hinting that LeBron will get $8 mil or less per year next summer?

If not, you are (yet again) posting without any clear point. Multiple posters have clown-stomped you on the skill/salary points, so just accept it and move on. Put down the shovel, kiddo.

[Final_quest]

I don't necessarily agree with all of Diesel or Hotlanta's points, but the bottom line is we need to be honest about what kind of team we are building. If we keep all of our starters for the next several years we will be unable to sign any top free agents, not likely to get a high draft pick, and not likely to seriously contend. At some point we will need to shake up the roster. I see little risk in forcing Marvin to take the QO or sign for less than 8 million for a lengthy deal. If he has a coming out year we have no problem paying him, but we all know that is not gonna happen.

[exodus]

57%??? Way to make up the numbers there.

Unfortunately, you're having reading problems again. Those are MARVIN'S INSIDE Scores... not his total scores. His total scores are about 70% assisted.

Or maybe you'd like to forget that 66% of his offense (Jumpshots) was 77% assisted.

LOL @ you of all people talking about reading problems.You couldn't even understand stats in your own post. Flip and Bibby getting to the line more than Marvin? HAHAHAHAHAHA.

Looking at all shots 68% of Marvin's were assisted compared to 65% for Smith. I don't see the significance

of a 3% difference. You certainly don't seem bothered by Smith's number of assisted shots. his number would be much higher if he wasn't such a lousy jump shooter.

Edited July 18, 2009 by exodus

[Diesel]

LOL @ you of all people talking about reading problems.You couldn't even understand stats in your own post. Flip and Bibby getting to the line more than Marvin? HAHAHAHAHAHA.

Looking at all shots 68% of Marvin's were assisted compared to 65% for Smith. I don't see the significance

of a 3% difference. You certainly don't seem bothered by Smith's number of assisted shots. his number would be much higher if he wasn't such a lousy jump shooter.

This is not about Smith. Smith has a contract and Smith plays much more impactfully than Marvin.

However, these are the % assisted rankings for some of out team.

1. Gardner

2. Morris

3. Evans

4. MARVIN

4. Solo

5. Horford

6. Smith.

The thing is that as you go down the list, you see guys who cannot create for themself. You're big in bringing up Marvin going to the free throw line, but notice... Marvin falls into the category of players who cannot create. It's that same old aggressiveness problem.

Now Smoove. He's 3% less than Marvin in terms of % assists. But that doesn't matter because Smoove's not up for contract. You can cry about trading Smoove in another thread. However, in this thread, Marvin is the guilty one.

BTW, nice avoidance of admitting that you made a mistake and then trying to change the subject.

It just goes with my sig!!

[exodus]

This is not about Smith. Smith has a contract and Smith plays much more impactfully than Marvin.

However, these are the % assisted rankings for some of out team.

1. Gardner

2. Morris

3. Evans

4. MARVIN

4. Solo

5. Horford

6. Smith.

The thing is that as you go down the list, you see guys who cannot create for themself. You're big in bringing up Marvin going to the free throw line, but notice... Marvin falls into the category of players who cannot create. It's that same old aggressiveness problem.

Now Smoove. He's 3% less than Marvin in terms of % assists. But that doesn't matter because Smoove's not up for contract. You can cry about trading Smoove in another thread. However, in this thread, Marvin is the guilty one.

BTW, nice avoidance of admitting that you made a mistake and then trying to change the subject.

It just goes with my sig!!

So the assisted percentage only matters with players who are up for a new contract? Then why are 4 of the players on your list not up for a new contract?

You are the one who brought up assisted percentage in the first place. Now you are trying to say that it is only relevant to Marvin, not to other players. If the assisted percentage is important at all then it is important with all players, not just Marvin. And where exactly did i mention trading Smith?

Typical Diesel nonsense.

BTW i never made any mistake to apologize for. You are the one who can't even understand your own stats.

Edited July 18, 2009 by exodus

[Diesel]

So the assisted percentage only matters with players who are up for a new contract? Then why are 4 of the players on your list not up for a new contract?

You are the one who brought up assisted percentage in the first place. Now you are trying to say that it is only relevant to Marvin, not to other players. If the assisted percentage is important at all then it is important with all players, not just Marvin. And where exactly did i mention trading Smith?

Typical Diesel nonsense.

BTW i never made any mistake to apologize for. You are the one who can't even understand your own stats.

:stop:

Can't say that this is what I expected, but it still falls in the line of evade. I guess I was hoping for more honesty from you ex... but there again, the scorpion and the frog...

Please continue to play dumb and try to cast whatever blame on me that you can. I know that the board is reading and they can see right through your nonesense...

[exodus]

Can you read???

I clearly said "CHILLZ SAID"....

RIF.

That is my point which you don't have the capacity to grasp. It isn't Sund running around talking about possible deals. It was Childress. If childress hadn't been talking

you wouldn't have known about any offers.

Just because Marvin hasn't talked about any offers doesn't mean there haven't been any. However just because Marvin hasn't talked about any deals YOU ASSUME

there aren't any. You probably don't even know the meaning of the word assumption.

[exodus]

:stop:

Can't say that this is what I expected, but it still falls in the line of evade. I guess I was hoping for more honesty from you ex... but there again, the scorpion and the frog...

Please continue to play dumb and try to cast whatever blame on me that you can. I know that the board is reading and they can see right through your nonesense...

Evade? You were the one who brought up assisted % in the first place, even mentioning Ray Allen for comparison. Now all of a sudden you don't want to talk about

assisted %, you just want to talk about me.

You act like you are correcting me when you mention that i posted Marvins inside numbers. However i clearly said they were inside numbers in my own post.

57% of Marvin's inside baskets are assisted. 60% of Smiths inside baskets are assisted.

Only Diesel could think he is correcting me by repeating exactly what i said.

[MaceCase]

For the sake of putting this back on track, we've proven that

1) Based on the salaries of all the starting SFs in the league posted by Floyd earlier, including those still on their rookie deals, the rough average of those 29 salaries is something to the effect of 8.4 million

2) The front office has supposedly offered 37.5, the difference of 3 million over 5 years seems almost trivial.

3)The poll on top seems to show that most think that 3 million difference is trivial.

All this back and forth using selective stats to prove subjective opinions is irrelevant. You cannot use assist percentages to prove "aggressiveness" because apparently some of the best in the business, not to mention many on our team, are assisted on the majority of their shots. 5 man units also seem irrelevant because apparently Woody never saw it fit to run his second unit at the beginning or through the majority of games, I can't guess why. Using games a player didn't play seems to be faulty aswell because it seems to ignore specifics such as homestands or whether or not our best player came out of a slump, other teams injuries, streaks, etc. etc. etc.

By the same merit one can argue that the Houston Rockets will be better off this season without Yao and Mcgrady because they made it to and then out of the first round without one and took the eventual world champs to 7 games without either. It would seem niether of them had any "impactfullnessationitivity" on their team's winning and should both be traded off for a bag of basketballs and a conditional draft pick especially considering their injury history. Just flash back to points 1,2, and 3 to see why this thread should have been dead 8 pages ago.

[mrhonline]

The next time someone starts a "Marvin thread," I'm going to close it and link it to this thread. It's not like there's anything left to say about him.

Over 200 replies and 2400+ views. Amazing.

[atlien]

LOL @ this thread.

Diesel, at this point, I would say your infatuation with Marvin is bordering on "unhealthy". WOW.

[exodus]

The next time someone starts a "Marvin thread," I'm going to close it and link it to this thread. It's not like there's anything left to say about him.

Over 200 replies and 2400+ views. Amazing.

Actually there is. I was thinking of starting a new thread myself lol.

[Buzzard]

I don't know Buzzard, maybe you're slow on the uptake. Maybe you can't follow the ebbs and flow of the conversation. The thing is that one tactic that many GMs use to try to determine the value of a player is to let the market decide. Well, the problem is that it seems like Nobody in the market cares that Marvin is a FA. IF we were trying to determine if Marvin was worth 8 Million, it would be easy if a team would come up and offer him 8 million. Last reported, we didn't even want to offer Marvin 8 million per. Our deal was 5 years 37.5 Million. I hope that Sund makes Marvin go out and find 8 million per. Because I know and many of you know that with no teams showing any interest in Marvin, that Marvin would be hard pressed to find that. But for you Marvin Loyalist, that wouldn't prove that he's not worth 8 million either.

Diesel just look at the bolded part of this and let it be .... God you make me laugh so hard....

You cannot prove a personal opinion as fact. I can go find some SFs' who make more than 8 and you can go find some who make less than 8. But neither argument would "prove" Marvins' worth as far as a personal opinion goes.

You keep throwing Chilz and Josh up as some sort of "proof" that Marvin is not worth 8 mill. How does that prove anything? Chilz did not get one NBA offer last year or this year that he thought would be a worthy contract for him to sign and us to try and match. Not one offer to sign for us to match, either year. Now please tell me how that proves Marvins' worth (please I am just dying to bust my gut laughing one more time). Smoove did not get a worthy offer to sign until August 8th last year. Now what does that "prove" about Marvins' value? (If you want to tell me how that fact proves Marvins worth as well...a 2nd laugh is always good!)

You really go off on tangents with these proofs of yours. But I do want to thankyou. I really enjoy a good laugh! Now I need to go reply to one of Ex's post because he liked to have killed me with the one about another Marvin thread! :handshake:

Edited July 19, 2009 by Buzzard

[Buzzard]

Actually there is. I was thinking of starting a new thread myself lol.

I almost died twice when I read this! Hell of a job EX :beer:

[Diesel]

Diesel just look at the bolded part of this and let it be .... God you make me laugh so hard....

You cannot prove a personal opinion as fact. I can go find some SFs' who make more than 8 and you can go find some who make less than 8. But neither argument would "prove" Marvins' worth as far as a personal opinion goes.

Wow. So you mean that if Portland offers Marvin and 8 million dollar deal, then that's not proof that he's worth 8 million dollars? I would think that would end the discussion here... However, you know and I know that that's not going to happen. David Lee will be offered 10 Million by PTL before Marvin is offered 8.

Buzzard, just as your name suggests... You fly around in circles looking for roadkill and left over points. It's a shame that you don't have the ___________ to come up with logical points and conclusions that make sense. I mean your only agenda here is to try and score a point on me... and everytime you try, you say the most illogical things. I can't believe that you just suggested that if a team offers Marvin an 8 million dollar deal then he's not worth it... That's the whole logic behind letting the market decide his worth.

[gsuteke]

LOL @ this thread.

Diesel, at this point, I would say your infatuation with Marvin is bordering on "unhealthy". WOW.

Well said.

It's gotten to the point of (well actually that was yesterday) ignoring most posts and grasping at the ones that leave you a little bit of daylight so you can carry on the fight.

[gsuteke]

Buzzard, just as your name suggests... You fly around in circles looking for roadkill and left over points.

You should be careful when insulting other members of the Squawk when you yourself ask for assistance when you are treated in the same manner.

It's a shame that you don't have the ___________ to come up with logical points and conclusions that make sense.

Others have done just that in this very thread yet you choose to ignore those posts as though they don't exist although they are before your very eyes.

I mean your only agenda here is to try and score a point on me...

That was so 2007. In case you haven't noticed (and you haven't) the Hawks are a good team now and the membership of this site has expanded 4 fold. Nobody has to "score a point on anyone here." HS's membership is too large and diversified at this point.

and everytime you try, you say the most illogical things.

I've already read that a few times already in this thread about another HS member. I guess it's all in the eye of the beholder.

This thread is dead.

[Diesel]

You should be careful when insulting other members of the Squawk when you yourself ask for assistance when you are treated in the same manner.

Others have done just that in this very thread yet you choose to ignore those posts as though they don't exist although they are before your very eyes.

That was so 2007. In case you haven't noticed (and you haven't) the Hawks are a good team now and the membership of this site has expanded 4 fold. Nobody has to "score a point on anyone here." HS's membership is too large and diversified at this point.

I've already read that a few times already in this thread about another HS member. I guess it's all in the eye of the beholder.

This thread is dead.

Last time I looked Teke. I'm not a mod. If I were a mod making insulting statements and then closing threads, that would be one issue. However, if you look through these post, you need to notice how many times I have been insulted? You can't wear blinders to the insults that I have received (especially from Buzzard) then call me down when I say something so mild as like your name suggests.... The record already states how I feel about certain things teke... but will there continue to be this selective moderation?

[thefloydian]

Saying Marvin can't create his own shot is asinine.

[Buzzard]

Wow. So you mean that if Portland offers Marvin and 8 million dollar deal, then that's not proof that he's worth 8 million dollars? I would think that would end the discussion here... However, you know and I know that that's not going to happen. David Lee will be offered 10 Million by PTL before Marvin is offered 8.

Buzzard, just as your name suggests... You fly around in circles looking for roadkill and left over points. It's a shame that you don't have the ___________ to come up with logical points and conclusions that make sense. I mean your only agenda here is to try and score a point on me... and everytime you try, you say the most illogical things. I can't believe that you just suggested that if a team offers Marvin an 8 million dollar deal then he's not worth it... That's the whole logic behind letting the market decide his worth.

This is why you make me laugh so hard Diesel. If Portland signs Marvin for 8 it only proves he is worth 8 to Portland. The rest of the league may think he is worth only 7 for all we know.

I put up plenty of post concerning Marvins value: 2nd best ft shooter for starters, 2nd most ft attempts per game (that one courtesy of another Squawker), best outside shooter of any player that does not play guard, his rebounding is a compliment to to our starting PF Smoove, and prior to being injured his scoring was up to 15ppg in Febuary and March.

I then post that Chilz and Smooves contract offers or lack there of have nothing to do with Marvin (you think they do for some silly reason) and ask you to prove to me how it does in your opinion; still waiting on that "proof".

I also see after logging in you have been totally busted on your assisted scoring stat ( you thought that was really important ) and yes Diesel ...... that did turn your whole argument into roadkill (my opinion of course). You got no bullets left now other than your opinion that Marvin is not worth 8 mill a year.

I think he is to us Diesel. I don't think the 3 million dollar difference over 5 years is worth losing Marvin Williams and would sign him to 8 rather than take a chance on losing him. We still need our players Diesel. We are not good enough to take a hit like losing Marvin next year after he plays out his QO and that is my opinion Diesel.

Edited July 19, 2009 by Buzzard