Hawks are expecting a vet big man vistor [Joe Smith] tomorrow

[Admin]

-Other than FG%... Josh Smith's numbers were down from a year ago across the board.

-JJ was at least hot the 2nd half of last year. His numbers were down as well.

-AL. Some of his numbers went up and his game looked just the same for the most part.

-Acie Law... Where did he improve?

The two 8 game home winning streaks were a large part of why this team had a decent season.

What's your point? Would you have been more impressed if they didn't have those winning streaks but still won the same amount of games?

Regarding Josh Smith I'm not worried about his regular season play last year as I'm not convinced that he was ever truly healthy until the end of the season and he played very well against the Cavs in the playoffs. That was a HUGE improvement from his play a year earlier against the Celtics.

I don't consider JJ to be one of our young players that I expect continued improvement from since I believe he is at or very near his peak but he should be able to maintain this level of play for several years. Any disappointment from his play has to come from the way he is used in our offense. You put him on a team with a structured offense and let him be a SG and his numbers would be significantly better. As it is I find it remarkable that he's able to put up the numbers he does facing constant double teams all season long and playing nearly 40 minutes per game.

Al didn't show much, if any improvement last year statistically but I believe he is a better player than he was as a rookie even if it's just in the intangibles.

Marvin was obviously better last year and he should continue to improve.

Zaza is still young and improving and he was much better last year than in 2007.

I don't really care about what Acie Law did since he's not on the team anymore.

[DrReality]

Don't see a trade at this point and although there are a lot of names being thrown around, realistically I think Joe Smith is the best chance we got.

[JJFAN4LF]

Asides from Marvin adding in a 3 point shot in his arsenal, no one on the team has added something new. I think the main reason we won a lot more games than we did past seasons is just chemistry. We've had the same core for a long time now.

Anyway, back on topic, Joe Smith is great. One of the best role players in the league today.

[Packfill]

Asides from Marvin adding in a 3 point shot in his arsenal, no one on the team has added something new. I think the main reason we won a lot more games than we did past seasons is just chemistry. We've had the same core for a long time now.

Anyway, back on topic, Joe Smith is great. One of the best role players in the league today.

I think the key factor in the Hawks improved play last season was having a stable veteran backcourt for the entire season. JJ, Bibby, Mo and Flip are all experienced vets, with fairly well defined roles, which is in contrast to previous years and the obvious instability at point guard in particular.

I have always considered going from terrible to respectible the easy part for an NBA team, it is the next step, going from respectible to contender that is the hard part. In order to make that next step one of Smith/Horford/Williams will beed to take a major step forward. Each has enough NBA experience now so inexperience is no longer an excuse.

[EazyRoc]

To answer Dolfan23, The reason I want Nesterovic or Ben Wallace because when Josh Smith got hurt last year, we had NO shotblockers. Zaza plays decent positional defense, but no one is threatened by his presence in the slightest way. Ben Wallace can still play PF, and so can Zaza quite frankly. There's only a few PFs in the league he can't guard, but we'll have enough depth where it wont matter.

[mrhonline]

Horford's shotblocking rate was comparable to Smith's last season, and Solomon Jones' was not too shabby either.

[Admin]

To answer Dolfan23, The reason I want Nesterovic or Ben Wallace because when Josh Smith got hurt last year, we had NO shotblockers. Zaza plays decent positional defense, but no one is threatened by his presence in the slightest way. Ben Wallace can still play PF, and so can Zaza quite frankly. There's only a few PFs in the league he can't guard, but we'll have enough depth where it wont matter.

Shot blocking doesn't win games though. Good positional defense and effort are far more valuable traits. Yeah Wallace could play PF but he won't be anywhere near as valuable as Joe Smith there. There is no way on Earth that Zaza can play PF. He gets beaten by centers because he's not fast enough or athletic enough and he has trouble scoring on them as well and PF's would eat him alive.

I'd love to see a list of the PF's that you think Zaza can guard.

[EazyRoc]

People don't respect Horford's presence like they did Josh Smith. Solomon doesn't get any time, so he doesn't really count. He was also extremely foul prone. Let's throw stats out the window and remember back to the games without Josh Smith. I guarantee you we went on a slide not because of his offensive impact on games, but his defensive impact. Why is that ? Because we didn't have anyone to scare guards into altering their shots around the basket. Wingmen were having a field day, because once they beat their man, Zaza wasn't able to get into position to block a shot. Hell..Zaza will take a charge before he attempts to block a shot. Horford isn't a bad shot blocker, but he's not big or athletic enough to really intimidate people around the basket.

[Admin]

People don't respect Horford's presence like they did Josh Smith. Solomon doesn't get any time, so he doesn't really count. He was also extremely foul prone. Let's throw stats out the window and remember back to the games without Josh Smith. I guarantee you we went on a slide not because of his offensive impact on games, but his defensive impact. Why is that ? Because we didn't have anyone to scare guards into altering their shots around the basket. Wingmen were having a field day, because once they beat their man, Zaza wasn't able to get into position to block a shot. Hell..Zaza will take a charge before he attempts to block a shot. Horford isn't a bad shot blocker, but he's not big or athletic enough to really intimidate people around the basket.

If the winner of the game was the team with more blocked shots then I'd worry ... but it's not. Smith's shot blocking was way down last year and we won more games and I believe our defense was better than it was the previous year as well.

[EazyRoc]

Did you just skim over my post or did you read it ? Our defense wasn't better because shotblocking was down. If Josh Smith had been as effective defending the rim in previous years, I guarantee you our defense would have been better. You still haven't addressed how bad our defense was when Josh Smith went out. I know it's easier to avoid it when you're trying to prove your point, but the fact of the matter is that you need someone defending the rim in this league. That's all a part of good defense.

[Admin]

Did you just skim over my post or did you read it ? Our defense wasn't better because shotblocking was down. If Josh Smith had been as effective defending the rim in previous years, I guarantee you our defense would have been better. You still haven't addressed how bad our defense was when Josh Smith went out. I know it's easier to avoid it when you're trying to prove your point, but the fact of the matter is that you need someone defending the rim in this league. That's all a part of good defense.

I don't believe that our defense was that much different with or without Smith but I'm open to being proven wrong.

What do you mean about had Smith been as effective defending the rim in previous years? How are you quantifying that? Considering his blocks were down so much this year I'd say that based on that statement you made that you have it backwards as he didn't defend the rim nearly as well this year.

And again please define what you mean by "defend the rim" because I keep thinking you're talking about shot blocking and I'm sorry but non it's not a fact that you need that to be a good defense. As evidence of that how often are the top shot blockers in the league on a top defensive team?

[MaceCase]

I don't believe that our defense was that much different with or without Smith but I'm open to being proven wrong.

What do you mean about had Smith been as effective defending the rim in previous years? How are you quantifying that? Considering his blocks were down so much this year I'd say that based on that statement you made that you have it backwards as he didn't defend the rim nearly as well this year.

And again please define what you mean by "defend the rim" because I keep thinking you're talking about shot blocking and I'm sorry but non it's not a fact that you need that to be a good defense. As evidence of that how often are the top shot blockers in the league on a top defensive team?

That is true, guys on more porous teams tend to have higher block totals than others on more solid defensive teams. Not sure if it applies to us and Smith but the block can be a decieving stat at times.

[jy23]

I'm just asking but are we sure that everyone on this board is really a fan? I feel so SO much negativity from some people. If you have nothing good to say then y waste your time on the board?

[Peoriabird]

I'm just asking but are we sure that everyone on this board is really a fan? I feel so SO much negativity from some people. If you have nothing good to say then y waste your time on the board?

If you think things are negative now, you"ll really be in for a treat after a regular season loss! We have some real boo birds that come out right on cue to start a million hate threads. Well you'll see for yourself in Nov.

[jy23]

If you think things are negative now, you"ll really be in for a treat after a regular season loss! We have some real boo birds that come out right on cue to start a million hate threads. Well you'll see for yourself in Nov.

Wow, well I guess I won't be on here during games like I thought I would be. Don't really care for the negativity, but we're all entitled to our own opinion.

[Plainview1981]

What's your point? Would you have been more impressed if they didn't have those winning streaks but still won the same amount of games?

Regarding Josh Smith I'm not worried about his regular season play last year as I'm not convinced that he was ever truly healthy until the end of the season and he played very well against the Cavs in the playoffs. That was a HUGE improvement from his play a year earlier against the Celtics.

It will be interesting to see if the team can repeat the same success this season. This is a very streaky team and they had the benefit of 2 home game stands that just don't happen. Knowing that the team is not consistent, it will interesting if they can string together wins this year. It's very unlikely that they will get those types of stands again this year. 8 game home stands will be the aid of any team... But ESP a team that is up and down.

I doubt that Josh just all of a sudden got healthy in the playoffs. He played fairly well, but the poor performances around him made him look a little better than he was in the playoffs. His production was fairly close to the same as it was in the regular season. Not a bad playoff run at all. But it wasn't his highest level either.

Al didn't show much, if any improvement last year statistically but I believe he is a better player than he was as a rookie even if it's just in the intangibles.

Well, his offense still isn't very good. His offensive post game is cringe worthy. I don't think it's got better at all. Maybe his passing has improved a bit. But that's about it.

Marvin was obviously better last year and he should continue to improve.

He started off shooting the 3 ball well. But he was unable to maintain that. After the first few months, he wasn't really effective behind the arc. His post game improved slightly, but given his role, I think largely what you've seen the last two years is what you're going to get.

Zaza is still young and improving and he was much better last year than in 2007.

That's kind of misleading considering the situation. Two years ago he was replaced by Al in the starting lineup and he saw limited minutes and only played in 62 games.

I don't really care about what Acie Law did since he's not on the team anymore.

Fine.

I understand where you're coming from, but this team as it as no shot to reach the top I don't believe. This team can win about 45 games this year in the improved east.

Edited July 23, 2009 by Hotlanta1981

[EazyRoc]

I don't believe that our defense was that much different with or without Smith but I'm open to being proven wrong.

What do you mean about had Smith been as effective defending the rim in previous years? How are you quantifying that? Considering his blocks were down so much this year I'd say that based on that statement you made that you have it backwards as he didn't defend the rim nearly as well this year.

And again please define what you mean by "defend the rim" because I keep thinking you're talking about shot blocking and I'm sorry but non it's not a fact that you need that to be a good defense. As evidence of that how often are the top shot blockers in the league on a top defensive team?

I watch games. Josh Smith's shotblocking was down, but that ankle injury really hampered his ability (and eagerness) to block shots and contest shots.

Defend the rim isn't always about blocking shots, but to have the length and/or athletic ability to make people respect your presence under the basket. Once again, Shot blocking isn't the end all and be all of defensive nor have I ever said that. That still doesn't change the fact to be a great defense, a championship caliber defense ala Spurs/Pistons, you need someone who's going to protect the rim. Lakers had Pau Gasol, the Magic had Dwight Howard. Cavs got big Z, the Celtics have KG and Perkins. The Nuggets had the Birdman. Rockets have Yao Ming. I challenge you to find a dominant defense or even a championship winning team that didn't have a player (or two) that could defend the rim and block shots.

[thefloydian]

I watch games. Josh Smith's shotblocking was down, but that ankle injury really hampered his ability (and eagerness) to block shots and contest shots.

Defend the rim isn't always about blocking shots, but to have the length and/or athletic ability to make people respect your presence under the basket. Once again, Shot blocking isn't the end all and be all of defensive nor have I ever said that. That still doesn't change the fact to be a great defense, a championship caliber defense ala Spurs/Pistons, you need someone who's going to protect the rim. Lakers had Pau Gasol, the Magic had Dwight Howard. Cavs got big Z, the Celtics have KG and Perkins. The Nuggets had the Birdman. Rockets have Yao Ming. I challenge you to find a dominant defense or even a championship winning team that didn't have a player (or two) that could defend the rim and block shots.

I don't know about Gasol. Horford blocked a half a shot more than Gasol did per game last year.

[EazyRoc]

Gasol played PF for most of the season. I was really talking about his post-season performance. However, if that's the case, you can count Andrew Bynum as well.

[thefloydian]

Gasol played PF for most of the season. I was really talking about his post-season performance. However, if that's the case, you can count Andrew Bynum as well.

Yeah, I'm not arguing that Bynum's not a pretty good shot blocker, I just never thought of Gasol as one.