Marvin article from Peachtree hoops

[coachx]

http://www.peachtreehoops.com/2009/9/17/1034551/marvin-williams-the-professional

jerrywest posted the Mike Bibby article.

I thought this was an excellent article on Marvin too. The paragraph below pretty much sums up my own opinion of how important he is to this roster.

You cannot count on Marvin the way you hoped, but in the context of the team, you may be able to count on him the most. And it shows. Bibby goes out, and we have Jamal Crawford. Joe cannot play and we get excited to see guys receive more touches. Josh misses action, and we are finally able to see Horford at the power forward position. Zaza can always decently fill in for big Al. Marvin is a different story. No one on the team can do what he can do. Those eight guys above him on the eastern conference small forward depth chart are not going to guard themselves. Marvin uniquely, if rather averagely, can hit the jumper, drive to the hoop, get to the line, make the free throw, finish on the break, and defend on the ball. Marvin Williams is our glue guy, if glue guys can be pretty good starters.

Edited September 28, 2009 by coachx

[Diesel]

http://www.peachtreehoops.com/2009/9/17/1034551/marvin-williams-the-professional

jerrywest posted the Mike Bibby article.

I thought this was an excellent article on Marvin too. The paragraph below pretty much sums up my own opinion of how important he is to this roster.

I have one criticism...

Didn't we not have Marvin last year for 21 games and our record was better without him than it was with him?

What kind of glue guy is that?

A glue guy is the guy who when you take him away the team starts to fall apart.

Marvin is not a glue guy.

He's more like the master of nothing.

and he really gives very little impact.

I wouldn't be surprised if Marvin's childhood friend wrote that article.

[hawksdawgs]

I have one criticism...

Didn't we not have Marvin last year for 21 games and our record was better without him than it was with him?

What kind of glue guy is that?

A glue guy is the guy who when you take him away the team starts to fall apart.

Marvin is not a glue guy.

He's more like the master of nothing.

and he really gives very little impact.

I wouldn't be surprised if Marvin's childhood friend wrote that article.

In the games Marvin was out, the only ones the Hawks won that had even an above average small forward were the Lakers, Memphis, Milwaukee, Bulls, and the Pistons. That leaves really two (three if you want to count the tanking Pistons and Prince) teams that Hawks beat with decent SFs on decent teams without Marvin.

Granger was out for Indy, Howard for Dallas, Tracy for Houston. The loses all came against teams with quality small forwards.

I would say the record while Marvin was out more proves the Hawks were lucky with who their opponent was during that time than it is a detriment to the argument that Marvin is a glue guy.

[buckeye242424]

I have one criticism...

Didn't we not have Marvin last year for 21 games and our record was better without him than it was with him?

What kind of glue guy is that?

A glue guy is the guy who when you take him away the team starts to fall apart.

Marvin is not a glue guy.

He's more like the master of nothing.

and he really gives very little impact.

I wouldn't be surprised if Marvin's childhood friend wrote that article.

He's our best defender. And the fact that he does everything on the offensive end "averagely" well, he's impactful to a degree that we're better with him around. I know your facts from last season, one season, says differently from the 20 games or so he missed, but during the course of a long season, teams: get hot, play weaker opponents, have more games at home. There are many factors that can play into hot and cold streaks.

I don't know why Marvin is such a sore spot for you....I understand his draft pick shows that he should be the "man" by now, but it's sour grapes at this point. He makes us better. At this point, with bringing all the core guys back, signing some guys with talent and deepening our bench so much....it is what it is. A healthy Marvin makes the Hawks better. You can argue the numbers and what not, but if Marv's case, qualitative data is better than quantitative.

[jy23]

He's our best defender. And the fact that he does everything on the offensive end "averagely" well, he's impactful to a degree that we're better with him around. I know your facts from last season, one season, says differently from the 20 games or so he missed, but during the course of a long season, teams: get hot, play weaker opponents, have more games at home. There are many factors that can play into hot and cold streaks.

I don't know why Marvin is such a sore spot for you....I understand his draft pick shows that he should be the "man" by now, but it's sour grapes at this point. He makes us better. At this point, with bringing all the core guys back, signing some guys with talent and deepening our bench so much....it is what it is. A healthy Marvin makes the Hawks better. You can argue the numbers and what not, but if Marv's case, qualitative data is better than quantitative.

Very well said

[Diesel]

He's our best defender. And the fact that he does everything on the offensive end "averagely" well, he's impactful to a degree that we're better with him around. I know your facts from last season, one season, says differently from the 20 games or so he missed, but during the course of a long season, teams: get hot, play weaker opponents, have more games at home. There are many factors that can play into hot and cold streaks.

I don't know why Marvin is such a sore spot for you....I understand his draft pick shows that he should be the "man" by now, but it's sour grapes at this point. He makes us better. At this point, with bringing all the core guys back, signing some guys with talent and deepening our bench so much....it is what it is. A healthy Marvin makes the Hawks better. You can argue the numbers and what not, but if Marv's case, qualitative data is better than quantitative.

No. Our best defender is still Smoove followed by Joe Johnson. We have called Marvin our best defender, but the numbers don't bare that out. Nor does watching him bare that out. People had to find something to try to validate Marvin so they claimed that he was our best defender. Tell me... does his defense have the impact that Smoove's defense have? Does he lock down guys and stop them from scoring?... Who?

If he's our best defender, why is it that we're better defensively with him off court?

Stop the insanity.

[AHF]

We aren't better with Marvin off the court which is why even Diesel was on board to resign him at the price we did. If we were truly worse with him, D and everyone else would have just happily watched him be renounced. Losing him was not addition by subtraction.

That said, Marvin is not]/b[ the team's best defender. That does remain Josh Smith. Marvin is one of two guys who can guard perimeter scorers (JJ is the other) which makes him a very valuable defender and his defense has certainly improved over the years, but he doesn't impact the team's defensive performance like Josh Smith.

[Buzzard]

http://www.peachtreehoops.com/2009/9/17/1034551/marvin-williams-the-professional

jerrywest posted the Mike Bibby article.

I thought this was an excellent article on Marvin too. The paragraph below pretty much sums up my own opinion of how important he is to this roster.

You cannot count on Marvin the way you hoped, but in the context of the team, you may be able to count on him the most. And it shows. Bibby goes out, and we have Jamal Crawford. Joe cannot play and we get excited to see guys receive more touches. Josh misses action, and we are finally able to see Horford at the power forward position. Zaza can always decently fill in for big Al. Marvin is a different story. No one on the team can do what he can do. Those eight guys above him on the eastern conference small forward depth chart are not going to guard themselves. Marvin uniquely, if rather averagely, can hit the jumper, drive to the hoop, get to the line, make the free throw, finish on the break, and defend on the ball. Marvin Williams is our glue guy, if glue guys can be pretty good starters.

Yes I read the Bibby article and this one as well and its nice to see some rational articles about our players. Marvin is a good solid player and its unfortunate that some fans want to bash him for BK making the mistake of not drafting Paul or Deron. Its unfortunate and somewhat insane; but we must remember the word fan is a derivative of the word fanantic. So it should go without saying that some player haters are insane or at best irrational....

Marvins a solid player well worth the 40 mill we signed him for. And until we get a better starting SF there is no reason to not support one of our own; who also happens to be selfless enough to play his game while allowing others to dominate the popularity polls without whining one second about it.

He is a solid overall player who works hard on improving his game, a team player, and a glue guy as stated in the article. Great post!

[Buzzard]

We aren't better with Marvin off the court which is why even Diesel was on board to resign him at the price we did. If we were truly worse with him, D and everyone else would have just happily watched him be renounced. Losing him was not addition by subtraction.

That said, Marvin is not]/b[ the team's best defender. That does remain Josh Smith. Marvin is one of two guys who can guard perimeter scorers (JJ is the other) which makes him a very valuable defender and his defense has certainly improved over the years, but he doesn't impact the team's defensive performance like Josh Smith.

I don't quite buy into the Josh Smith is our best defender aurgument; not when you are talking about a PF who only averaged 7 boards a game last season ( 7.4 for his career ). Now his blocks do have a huge impact when they occur and can turn a game around in our favor; no aurgument there. But from a positional standpoint, JJ, Marvin, and Horf are our most consistent and fundamentally sound defenders night in and night out.

For me, staying with your man, blocking him off the boards, and gathering boards is a truer sign of good defense than blocking one or two shots a game....

Edited September 29, 2009 by Buzzard

[sillent]

No. Our best defender is still Smoove followed by Joe Johnson. We have called Marvin our best defender, but the numbers don't bare that out. Nor does watching him bare that out. People had to find something to try to validate Marvin so they claimed that he was our best defender. Tell me... does his defense have the impact that Smoove's defense have? Does he lock down guys and stop them from scoring?... Who?

If he's our best defender, why is it that we're better defensively with him off court?

Stop the insanity.

True!! But do not discredit Marvin's all around talent. He will be an allstar in the near future because of his work ethic and all around talent. One day we may see an all star team with damn near the starting 5 of the Hawks(Horford, Smoove, Marvin, Johnson/Crawford, Teague).

[sillent]

Yes I read the Bibby article and this one as well and its nice to see some rational articles about our players. Marvin is a good solid player and its unfortunate that some fans want to bash him for BK making the mistake of not drafting Paul or Deron. Its unfortunate and somewhat insane; but we must remember the word fan is a derivative of the word fanantic. So it should go without saying that some player haters are insane or at best irrational....

Marvins a solid player well worth the 40 mill we signed him for. And until we get a better starting SF there is no reason to not support one of our own; who also happens to be selfless enough to play his game while allowing others to dominate the popularity polls without whining one second about it.

He is a solid overall player who works hard on improving his game, a team player, and a glue guy as stated in the article. Great post!

I agree with your post but again I have to say if Teague pans out I will take Marvin, Horford, and Teague over Paul/Deron. BK planned for a future team not a future player. Would you take a Championship with a great team or a Hall of Famer but no means to provide any extra support.

[DrReality]

No. Our best defender is still Smoove followed by Joe Johnson. We have called Marvin our best defender, but the numbers don't bare that out. Nor does watching him bare that out. People had to find something to try to validate Marvin so they claimed that he was our best defender. Tell me... does his defense have the impact that Smoove's defense have? Does he lock down guys and stop them from scoring?... Who?

If he's our best defender, why is it that we're better defensively with him off court?

Stop the insanity.

Diesel telling others to 'stop the insanity' . . . . . there is one for the hall of fame.

[coachx]

In order to get to the Eastern Conference Finals we will have to go through 2 out of these 3 SFs ( James, Pierce, R. Lewis). To get out of the 1st round we will probably have to face Butler or Deng as SFs (If Hawks are #4 seed and Wiz or Bulls are 5th seed seems very possible).

In 7 game playoff series Marvin is a HUGE need.

We went over this over and over after the Cleveland series, with a hurt Marvin, a few months back.

Edited September 29, 2009 by coachx

[AHF]

I agree with your post but again I have to say if Teague pans out I will take Marvin, Horford, and Teague over Paul/Deron. BK planned for a future team not a future player. Would you take a Championship with a great team or a Hall of Famer but no means to provide any extra support.

It is Marvin, Shelden, Horford, Law and Teague versus:

Paul, Hilton Armstrong, Julian Wright, #11 overall pick in 2007 (to be spent on someone other than Law), Darrell Arthur, and Collison

or

Deron, Ronnie Brewer, Paul Millsap, Morris Almond, #11 overall pick in 2007 (to be spent on someone other than Law)( Kosta Koufos and Eric Maynor

I don't think you can ignore the years of drafting by those other teams if you are going to take into account the years of drafting by the Hawks and how those were shaped by the selection of Marvin over Paul/Deron.

[Diesel]

We aren't better with Marvin off the court which is why even Diesel was on board to resign him at the price we did. If we were truly worse with him, D and everyone else would have just happily watched him be renounced. Losing him was not addition by subtraction.

That said, Marvin is not]/b[ the team's best defender. That does remain Josh Smith. Marvin is one of two guys who can guard perimeter scorers (JJ is the other) which makes him a very valuable defender and his defense has certainly improved over the years, but he doesn't impact the team's defensive performance like Josh Smith.

Value to us and Value are two different things.

The question is.. is Marvin our best defender?

The answer is an unquestionable NO.

Why was even I on board to resign him at the price we got him... Because it's a cheap enough price that he can be moved. Just because his impact for us is poor, that doesn't mean that another team wouldn't trade for him. Sund just got Jamal Crawford for Speedy and Law. Imagine what he can get for a former #2 pick overall. Being that losing him wouldn't have helped our cap that much... I say let's hold on... see what he offers and see what others offer for him. In otherwords, after Mo... He's our most tradable commodity.

[Diesel]

True!! But do not discredit Marvin's all around talent. He will be an allstar in the near future because of his work ethic and all around talent. One day we may see an all star team with damn near the starting 5 of the Hawks(Horford, Smoove, Marvin, Johnson/Crawford, Teague).

:help wanted3:

:laughing5: :laughing5: :laughing5:

OK. Let me just say...Even if his family were the only people who voted.... Marvin still wouldn't be an allstar.

His own Mama's not going to vote him in.

[gsuteke]

:help wanted3:

:laughing5: :laughing5: :laughing5:

OK. Let me just say...Even if his family were the only people who voted.... Marvin still wouldn't be an allstar.

His own Mama's not going to vote him in.

In the short term you are correct.

However considering how old Marvin is and how he's working on that 3 ball to top off his penchant for getting to the line in the paint you better head for the hills in the long run.

I don't think Marvin will be a perennial all-star though because he's not flashy.

I appreciate Marvin's game. I look forward to appreciating it over the next 5 years. I feel good about this Hawks team.

[uga2006]

No. Our best defender is still Smoove followed by Joe Johnson. We have called Marvin our best defender, but the numbers don't bare that out. Nor does watching him bare that out. People had to find something to try to validate Marvin so they claimed that he was our best defender. Tell me... does his defense have the impact that Smoove's defense have? Does he lock down guys and stop them from scoring?... Who?

If he's our best defender, why is it that we're better defensively with him off court?

Stop the insanity.

Are you serious? While Josh is a great blocker due to his athletic abilty he is only a factor when it comes to weakside help. His perimeter defense is still a work in progress. Joe's defense or lack there of is widely overrated. He gets drove on constantly. Marvin is by far our best perimeter defender. Rarely does his guy drive past him and if he does it's only becuase he knows he has help. Ypur hatred of Marvin is so bad that it's making you blind Diesel. Marvin doesn't have any real weakness to his game something many players can not say.

[Wurider05]

I can't believe that Diesel said that Josh Smith was our best defender. Sir you lost all credibility with that comment there. You can't even argue with that. I can't believe he said that Josh Smith....................................damn!!!!!!