Bibby's weaknesses, Woody's stubborness on display in bad loss

[hawks21]

Woody's days as a NBA head coach is coming to an end in 2010. Woody won't play Teague, over-uses Bibby and at some point GM SUnd has to step in and say enough is enough.

Nate Robinson style of penetrating and challenging the defense speaks to the glaring weakness this Hawks' team has. Robinson was a scoring machine, but he broke every ankle on the Hawks team last night.

[spotatl]

What on earth makes you think that Teague is a good defender?

[Plainview1981]

Woody's days as a NBA head coach is coming to an end in 2010. Woody won't play Teague, over-uses Bibby and at some point GM SUnd has to step in and say enough is enough.

Nate Robinson style of penetrating and challenging the defense speaks to the glaring weakness this Hawks' team has. Robinson was a scoring machine, but he broke every ankle on the Hawks team last night.

Bibby is no longer an NBA starter.

[AmishBoy]

I don't so how Woody doesn't see this coming. It happens everytime we play Nate Robinson or other tiny fast guards like TJ Ford. I didn't see the part of the game where Teague played but I sure did see the end of 3rd through overtime where he didn't play and Nate simply had his way with this team.

[Swatguy]

You actually think 135 lb. Teague is the answer for Nate Robinson. Jeff would have used All of his fouls and back on the bench. Bibby wasn't the only used by Nate. the answer was to Man up on Nate and put his butt on the floor as he comes through the lane.

That message did not get to the players. Instead of whining Josh, Al and Joe should have been physical with him.

Bibby is still a starter quality player.

[bay2theAlady]

You actually think 135 lb. Teague is the answer for Nate Robinson. Jeff would have used All of his fouls and back on the bench. Bibby wasn't the only used by Nate. the answer was to Man up on Nate and put his butt on the floor as he comes through the lane.

That message did not get to the players. Instead of whining Josh, Al and Joe should have been physical with him.

Bibby is still a starter quality player.

Was does Teague's weight have to do with anything. Its not like Nate was down in the post the whole time. With Teague it would have been quickness on quickness, which is what Bibby AND Joe both lack when it comes to defense. Even the Stinger was saying put Teague back in the game to slow Nate down. Even a playe ris torching you aren't you supposed to adjust and try throwing different things at him to slow him down. Woody is so predictable and is terrible at adjusting his game plan, point blank. He gets outcoached a lot.

[Buzzard]

You actually think 135 lb. Teague is the answer for Nate Robinson. Jeff would have used All of his fouls and back on the bench. Bibby wasn't the only used by Nate. the answer was to Man up on Nate and put his butt on the floor as he comes through the lane.

That message did not get to the players. Instead of whining Josh, Al and Joe should have been physical with him.

Bibby is still a starter quality player.

So Teague would have played physical and fouled out but that is not a good idea; but at the sametime you want Josh, Al, and Joe to get physical. I think you are missing the point. Teague is quick and he does body up; which is exactly what you need against a speed demon like Nate. Even if Teague picks up four fouls in the last quarter; it would still be bettter than letting Nate shoot wide open threes and drive the lane at will.

[hawks21]

Was does Teague's weight have to do with anything. Its not like Nate was down in the post the whole time. With Teague it would have been quickness on quickness, which is what Bibby AND Joe both lack when it comes to defense. Even the Stinger was saying put Teague back in the game to slow Nate down. Even a playe ris torching you aren't you supposed to adjust and try throwing different things at him to slow him down. Woody is so predictable and is terrible at adjusting his game plan, point blank. He gets outcoached a lot.

I agree that Teague's weight (which is actually closer to 195) is not the issue. It is about quickness.

Teague has the physical attributes to be a solid player, but Woody can't afford to keep him on the bench. The Hawks drafted him and he has to play.

Teague was brought here to fill a need in our backcourt. Quick, athletic guard who can consistently penetrate and break down defenses.

The Hawks have pushed former first round picks out the door (Shelden, Diaw, Acie)... Woody won't get the chance with Teague..

[MaceCase]

Teague seems to have two very grave issues on defense that people always want to overlook because he has quickness.

First of all he absolutely get's lost off the ball. He's not as bad as Jamal with his "area zones" equidistant from each offensive player but when his man doesn't have the ball in his hands Teague too often loses sight of him watching the action trying to pick off a pass. Too often his man works baseline or to the corner three and now we have chaos with Zaza trying to run out to a newly open shooter.

Second of all, he seems to share a similar issue that Acie had on defense. Despite having the foot speed to stay in front of any player, both play up too close to their man and try to crowd them when they have the ball. Acie may of had the body for it to keep guys from just turning a single direction and driving while shielding the ball but they both share the same issue that they get killed on screens and picks. Because he is so aggressive trying to cover his man Teague doesn't allow himself the chance to beat a screen or pick. He's too tight that he doesn't even have a realistic chance to go under the pick and when he goes over he get's so much of the screener's body that he is now trailing his man on the play. This is how Nate got Teague off of him the 2-3 times he matched up with him. Add in that Teague is genuinely trying to get over the screen rather than just switching and we now have the issue where whoever is playing the screener sticks with his man and Teague caught so much body off the screen that the player with the ball is left naked for a jumper or drive.

These issues have nothing to do with Teague's physical abilities but rather his inexperience. Just because he can guard someone in theory doesn't necessarily mean he has the experience or technique to do it yet. Every game I notice these little tics in his game and have yet to see an adjustment from him and that has little to say of how he's also been solved on the offensive end i.e. sag off and go under every screen, he's not going to launch it.

[mrhonline]

Fouling Nate would've been an improvement...

[smithrules]

Fouling Nate would've been an improvement...

EXACTLY!!! Let him know if he drives in lane you will knock him down hes 5 9!

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Teague seems to have two very grave issues on defense that people always want to overlook because he has quickness.

First of all he absolutely get's lost off the ball. He's not as bad as Jamal with his "area zones" equidistant from each offensive player but when his man doesn't have the ball in his hands Teague too often loses sight of him watching the action trying to pick off a pass. Too often his man works baseline or to the corner three and now we have chaos with Zaza trying to run out to a newly open shooter.

Second of all, he seems to share a similar issue that Acie had on defense. Despite having the foot speed to stay in front of any player, both play up too close to their man and try to crowd them when they have the ball. Acie may of had the body for it to keep guys from just turning a single direction and driving while shielding the ball but they both share the same issue that they get killed on screens and picks. Because he is so aggressive trying to cover his man Teague doesn't allow himself the chance to beat a screen or pick. He's too tight that he doesn't even have a realistic chance to go under the pick and when he goes over he get's so much of the screener's body that he is now trailing his man on the play. This is how Nate got Teague off of him the 2-3 times he matched up with him. Add in that Teague is genuinely trying to get over the screen rather than just switching and we now have the issue where whoever is playing the screener sticks with his man and Teague caught so much body off the screen that the player with the ball is left naked for a jumper or drive.

These issues have nothing to do with Teague's physical abilities but rather his inexperience. Just because he can guard someone in theory doesn't necessarily mean he has the experience or technique to do it yet. Every game I notice these little tics in his game and have yet to see an adjustment from him and that has little to say of how he's also been solved on the offensive end i.e. sag off and go under every screen, he's not going to launch it.

Exactly. If Teague was a solid defensive player, Woody would definitely play that guy. It's his defense, along with his problems with finishing around the rim, that's mainly keeping him off the floor, just like it did with Acie.

That's why Woody didn't potentially sacrifice wins earlier in the season, to try to develop Teague. LOL . . if the fan base can't handle a 3-game losing streak, how in the would would they handle Teague playing 15 minutes a night, but still losing games?

[DJlaysitup]

EXACTLY!!! Let him know if he drives in lane you will knock him down hes 5 9!

He's also about 180 lbs and has the body of a strong safety.

[Dexmethylphenidate]

Bibby's not the problem. The Hawks need Bibby to win games. The problem here is play Bibby, Crawford and Joe together down the stretch. Bibby and JOe is okay but Bibby and Jamal= worst defensive backcourt in nba.

[Buzzard]

Exactly. If Teague was a solid defensive player, Woody would definitely play that guy. It's his defense, along with his problems with finishing around the rim, that's mainly keeping him off the floor, just like it did with Acie.

That's why Woody didn't potentially sacrifice wins earlier in the season, to try to develop Teague. LOL . . if the fan base can't handle a 3-game losing streak, how in the would would they handle Teague playing 15 minutes a night, but still losing games?

No, Woody has been quoted as saying it does not matter how well Teague plays, from game to game, he could very well not see the court the very next game. So throw out your opinion that Teagues playing time rest on how well he plays defensively or offensively; Woody already has.

Crawford throwing up bricks all game long vs giving Teague a shot in the 2nd half. Where is the risk here? Teague has a better TO to Assist to Steal ratio. And according to all the Teague detractors and Woody backers, they both suck on D and when Crawford is not on; he will not get back on in the same game.

The only risk in playing Teague over Crawford, when Crawford is not shooting well, is we risk turning the game around in our favor with his energy, quickness, and ability to penetrate. And Teague is not afraid of contact; something we all know is a serious weakness in both Crawfords defensive and offensive games. You can either accept this as an honest appraisal of both players abilities; or just keep thinking Woodys substitution patterns are perfect and without fault.

Edited January 4, 2010 by Buzzard

[MaceCase]

No, Woody has been quoted as saying it does not matter how well Teague plays from game to game he could very well not see the court the very next game. Crawford throwing up bricks all game long vs giving Teague a shot in the 2nd half. Where is the risk here? Teague has a better TO to Assist to Steal ratio. And according to all the Teague detractors and Woody backers, they both suck on D and when Crawford is not on; he will not get back on in the same game.

The only risk in playing Teague over Crawford when Crawford is not shooting well, is we risk turning the game around in our favor with his energy, quickness, and ability to penetrate. You can either accept that as an honest appraisal of both players abilities; or just keep thinking Woodys substitution patterns are perfect and without fault.

Makes sense to play Teague over Jamal when he is off but I doubt we are too keen on watching a Bibby/Teague backcourt either. Individually these player can be covered for their lack of mobility, common sense or experience but Woody rather compound their deficiencies by playing them with another deficient player in the hopes their offense will cover for it. Frustrating yes but neither Mo nor Marvin can match the vets scoring reputation or production this season for Woody to put them in the game instead.

[DJlaysitup]

Hey Sund...get another point guard.

[Buzzard]

Makes sense to play Teague over Jamal when he is off but I doubt we are too keen on watching a Bibby/Teague backcourt either. Individually these player can be covered for their lack of mobility, common sense or experience but Woody rather compound their deficiencies by playing them with another deficient player in the hopes their offense will cover for it. Frustrating yes but neither Mo nor Marvin can match the vets scoring reputation or production this season for Woody to put them in the game instead.

I agree; and if you agree with me on Crawford when he is cold, just shows how bias some are when it comes to Woodys bench use. Bibby and Teague together is a disaster waiting to happen on most nights; but so is Craw and Bibby defensively most nights. Teague and JJ is a good match. People still respect Marvins shot and his spacing does help with our penetration (when that happens once in a blue moon) and ISOs.

Edited January 4, 2010 by Buzzard

[benhillboy]

All of us knew that Bibby has been a horrible man defender for some time now. It's nothing new. I've seen him at least try, to his credit, but when you move like you're on stilts, there's only so much you can do to chase and strafe against some of these speed demons at point. I've never been one to criticize a coach for his personnel decisions: we don't know why he didn't play Teague, but I'm sure it wasn't without reason. They've done a pretty good job so far helping and hiding Bibby on D. Some nights they'll take a lump becasue they simply can't support him due to matchups and the opposing teams willingness to force him on an island where he's gonna get abused. Offset it with your strengths that involve him: forcing the break, and we'll be cool.

[spotatl]

The Hawks have terrible defense at PG. Bibby is a disaster, Crawford is allergic to defense, and Teague looks clueless on defense. Sund needs to bring in a veteran PG who can step in and help stop this. A guy like Earl Watson would be perfect in my opinion.