D.R.P. Posted January 9, 2010 Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 (edited) It seems like when the hawks get to the 4th quarter all Joe wants to do is go one on one and put up some pansy-*ss shot. No one comes to hawks games to see Joe!! Edited January 9, 2010 by D.R.P. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Atlantaholic Posted January 9, 2010 Premium Member Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 Joe played well tonight. Led the team in assissts. The problem is the playcalling... or lack thereof 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MVP23 Posted January 9, 2010 Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 Tank the season, draft Wall, get Wade, let Joe walk!!..Jk Joe wants to be Kobe in the 4th..you win some you lose some.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member NineOhTheRino Posted January 9, 2010 Premium Member Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 He's the same guy that went for 38 vs the Cavs. I know Joe bashing is the new norm but good lord this is not fair. Joe was off a bit but he still finished with 12 points and 8 assist. So he's 2 assist from a double-double and we're killing him? On the other hand... Joe has to recognize when it's not working and trust in his teammates more. There is no doubt in my mind that had Joe continued to shotting in the 4th that the Hawks would have lost. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsuteke Posted January 9, 2010 Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 I don't buy the lack of ball movement (which inevitably leads to the Hawks giving up a lead) is Woodson's fault. We've got a player in Joe who doesn't pass the ball sometimes. Before Woodrow put Bibby back in that's what was happening and that's why we weren't scoring tonight. DVR a game and watch it sometime the next day when your emotions aren't in it. Joe isn't passing the ball in time to get a decent play ran when our offense gets gummed up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawksFan87 Posted January 9, 2010 Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 agreed, Joe is the main reason the celtics got close again, he began to force up shot, after shot. And turn the ball over.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member niremetal Posted January 9, 2010 Premium Member Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 (edited) agreed, Joe is the main reason the celtics got close again, he began to force up shot, after shot. And turn the ball over.. Yeah, you're right. He took 2 fewer shots than his average, dished out 8 assists, and at least two of his turnovers should have been foul calls. I guess Joe shouldn't shoot at all when he's having a bad game, right? Oh, and just ignore the fact that he played outstanding defense, without which the Celtics would have won as well. The standards that people hold their disfavored players to is truly mind-boggling. We all know how you feel about Joe. In your mind, Joe's not allowed to make up for an off night shooting by taking a couple fewer shots, getting a few more assists, and cranking up the defensive intensity. No, on nights like that, he has to pass the ball EVERY TIME and NEVER turn it over. Edited January 9, 2010 by niremetal 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerrywest Posted January 9, 2010 Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 we love josh but we dont want him to shoot 3s. we love joe but we don't want him to distrust his teammates. he almost cost us the game tonight. iso joe has to stop. espn cursed us out for that tonight. rightfully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerrywest Posted January 9, 2010 Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 joe - this is not the 2005 hawks. stop distrusting your teammates. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsuteke Posted January 9, 2010 Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 Yeah, you're right. He took 2 fewer shots than his average, dished out 8 assists, and at least two of his turnovers should have been foul calls. I guess Joe shouldn't shoot at all when he's having a bad game, right? The standards that people hold their disfavored players to is truly mind-boggling. We all know how you feel about Joe. In your mind, Joe's not allowed to make up for an off night shooting by taking a couple fewer shots and getting a few more assists. No, on nights like that, he has to pass the ball EVERY TIME and NEVER turn it over. I can see where you're coming from. However DVR the game and see why we weren't scoring in the 4th before Bibby came back in. Joe was the primary ball handler before Bibby came back in. It is what it is. Ball movement and team basketball is how these team thrives. Nobody can argue that. Nobody is saying run Joe out of town. We're just stating the obvious. There's some room for improvement and that's a good thing. Joe doesn't even have to carry the team. However if he goes for 25 a night and averages close to 49% shooting we can't be beat. Marinate on that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsuteke Posted January 9, 2010 Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 joe - this is not the 2005 hawks. stop distrusting your teammates. well said. Joe's a great player. But we've got some very good players around him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crank Posted January 9, 2010 Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 Yeah, you're right. He took 2 fewer shots than his average, dished out 8 assists, and at least two of his turnovers should have been foul calls. I guess Joe shouldn't shoot at all when he's having a bad game, right? Oh, and just ignore the fact that he played outstanding defense, without which the Celtics would have won as well. The standards that people hold their disfavored players to is truly mind-boggling. We all know how you feel about Joe. In your mind, Joe's not allowed to make up for an off night shooting by taking a couple fewer shots, getting a few more assists, and cranking up the defensive intensity. No, on nights like that, he has to pass the ball EVERY TIME and NEVER turn it over. Now cmon you know you are exaggerating . I think everyone knows he was talking about the 4th quarter which if thats the case everything you said is wrong because in the 4th Joe did none of those things Joe in the 4th was 0-4 with a 1 TO he had 1 assist off a Josh Smith long jumper he fouled Pierce 20 ft away from the basket sending him to the line And for the most part over dribbled the entire time he was in the 4th But you know its a long season and it happens but I just expect Joe to be more of a leader at this point not only be deed but by word . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member niremetal Posted January 9, 2010 Premium Member Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 (edited) joe - this is not the 2005 hawks. stop distrusting your teammates. He got 8 assists. How the hell is that not trusting his teammates? Tonight, he had only 2 FGAs per assist, which is damned good for a shooting guard. I can see where you're coming from. However DVR the game and see why we weren't scoring in the 4th before Bibby came back in. Joe was the primary ball handler before Bibby came back in. It is what it is. Ball movement and team basketball is how these team thrives. Nobody can argue that. Nobody is saying run Joe out of town. We're just stating the obvious. There's some room for improvement and that's a good thing. Joe doesn't even have to carry the team. However if he goes for 25 a night and averages close to 49% shooting we can't be beat. Marinate on that. Actually, there are people saying run Joe out of town. Yes, there is room for improvement. There is room for improvement with every damned player in the universe. I get sick of people singling out the players they don't like for criticism even without acknowledging that they are holding that player to a different standard than their favored players. There were 3 ISO-JJs run in the fourth quarter (and, not incidentally, even those might not have been run if we had a coach who actually implemented an offensive system). Three. Joe took 4 shots. Four. He made one turnover. One. And he played remarkable defense on both Pierce and Allen at different points down the stretch. Four shots and one turnover in 21 23 possessions. One assist, and at least 3 possessions where he passed the ball to an open teammate who missed the shot. And people are still saying that JJ's ballhogging and distrusting his teammates almost cost us the game. Marinate on that. Because that is fracking ridiculous. Edited January 9, 2010 by niremetal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member mrhonline Posted January 9, 2010 Premium Member Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 Joe also missed 11 shots and didn't get to the free throw line once. It wasn't his worst game, but it was far from the type of game the Hawks will need from him in the playoffs. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerrywest Posted January 9, 2010 Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 The game is on espn360. you can watch it as many times as you want. see how joe almost cost us the game in the 4th quarter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsuteke Posted January 9, 2010 Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 He got 8 assists. How the hell is that not trusting his teammates? Tonight, he had only 2 FGAs per assist, which is damned good for a shooting guard. Actually, there are people saying run Joe out of town. Yes, there is room for improvement. There is room for improvement with every damned player in the universe. I get sick of people singling out the players they don't like for criticism even without acknowledging that they are holding that player to a different standard than their favored players. There were 3 ISO-JJs run in the fourth quarter (and, not incidentally, even those might not have been run if we had a coach who actually implemented an offensive system). Three. Joe took 4 shots. Four. He made one turnover. One. And he played remarkable defense on both Pierce and Allen at different points down the stretch. Four shots and one turnover in 21 23 possessions. One assist, and at least 3 possessions where he passed the ball to an open teammate who missed the shot. And people are still saying that JJ's ballhogging and distrusting his teammates almost cost us the game. Marinate on that. Because that is fracking ridiculous. Yeah the other guys on the team got the missed shot or the turnover as he passed it with 5 seconds left on the clock in the 4th. DVR the game and watch it with no emotion. I'm happy to have Joe on our team he hits some ridiculous shots but he goes 5-16 with regularity. Fortunately this isn't the 2005 Atlanta Hawks. They can win when Joe is off if other players are getting the ball. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsuteke Posted January 9, 2010 Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 The game is on espn360. you can watch it as many times as you want. see how joe almost cost us the game in the 4th quarter. Take the Pepsi Challenge Niremetal. And ignore the posters that start threads saying we need to let Joe go. They are uneducated basketball fans. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member niremetal Posted January 9, 2010 Premium Member Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 (edited) Yeah the other guys on the team got the missed shot or the turnover as he passed it with 5 seconds left on the clock in the 4th. DVR the game and watch it with no emotion. I'm happy to have Joe on our team he hits some ridiculous shots but he goes 5-16 with regularity. Fortunately this isn't the 2005 Atlanta Hawks. They can win when Joe is off if other players are getting the ball. I did watch it without emotion, at least with respect to JJ. And I re-watched it on DVR. I actually am not some huge JJ booster. He's no better than my third favorite starter after Horf and Bibby. But he's also the player (along with Marvin) who gets the most flak around here. Tonight it was undeserved. The game is on espn360. you can watch it as many times as you want. see how joe almost cost us the game in the 4th quarter. JJ was not hogging the ball in the fourth quarter. He did not almost cost us the game. You only can come to that conclusion if you watch the game looking for plays where Joe messed up. But people remember the plays they want to remember. That's the way it goes, but I'm gonna call BS on it. Edited January 9, 2010 by niremetal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsuteke Posted January 9, 2010 Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 I did watch it without emotion, at least with respect to JJ. And I re-watched it on DVR. I actually am not some huge JJ booster. He's no better than my third favorite starter after Horf and Bibby. But he's also the player (along with Marvin) who gets the most flak around here. Tonight it was undeserved. JJ was not hogging the ball in the fourth quarter. He did not almost cost us the game. You only can come to that conclusion if you watch the game looking for plays where Joe messed up. But people remember the plays they want to remember. That's the way it goes, but I'm gonna call BS on it. Personally I find it hard to criticize our best players in a back and forth with another poster. If you watched the 4th quarter when it got ugly Joe was largely the cause of it . Woodson take the blame around here but it was largely either Joe or Crawford not passing the ball. The difference, Crawford (in this particular case) was making shots. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member niremetal Posted January 9, 2010 Premium Member Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 (edited) Personally I find it hard to criticize our best players in a back and forth with another poster. If you watched the 4th quarter when it got ugly Joe was largely the cause of it . Woodson take the blame around here but it was largely either Joe or Crawford not passing the ball. The difference, Crawford (in this particular case) was making shots. And I suppose the 50% of the game where we were, you know, playing defense are irrelevant? Because on several of those plays, you could very easily argue that JJ saved us the game. As I said, you have to watch damned selectively to come to the conclusion that Joe was the cause of us almost losing. You also have to willfully ignore the other plays where JJ rotated the ball to his teammates and only took two shots (both on the same possession, neither off an ISO and both good looks, although admittedly from the inefficient mid-range) in the final six minutes. Oh, and on those three (yes, three) plays where JJ went ISO in the fourth? On only one of them did he have a teammate moving meaningfully to get open. And in the end, he only took 4 shots in the quarter and committed one turnover. If you want to selectively zero in on the two-minute stretch where he executed two unsuccessful ISOs (and Crawford missed one ill-advised shot on the possession before) and zero in on those three consecutive bad possessions as the cause of us almost losing...well, that's focusing only on the plays that you want to focus on. Someone else could just as easily focus on the Hawks' defensive lapses during the first 6 minutes of the quarter, virtually none of which can be blamed on JJ if you re-watch the game tape. Edited January 9, 2010 by niremetal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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