Steve Nash.....

[Diesel]

With all this talk about Amare being moved... I have to think if they are moving Amare, then Nash is not long to move also.

So here's my question....

Would a 4 year older Steve Nash do better in Atlanta than Mike Bibby?

[FrankWhite]

Are you serious? Steve Nash is still one of the best players in the league. He's a great playmaker AND he's a better scoring PG than Bibby right now. Defense is moot. There's no way we could get him, but this team would be a legit title contender with him in place of Bibby.

And I'm not even trying to knock Bibby here. Nash is a first ballot HOFer. Bibby is a guy with a very good career.

[Diesel]

Are you serious? Steve Nash is still one of the best players in the league. He's a great playmaker AND he's a better scoring PG than Bibby right now. Defense is moot. There's no way we could get him, but this team would be a legit title contender with him in place of Bibby.

And I'm not even trying to knock Bibby here. Nash is a first ballot HOFer. Bibby is a guy with a very good career.

dANG Frank...

I disagree on a few points.

1. I asked the question because we have an obvious lack of an offense. I know that Nash is a 2 time mvp. I got that. I know THAT HE'S all world. However, would he fit with what we do? I don't see how he would make our offense much better?

2. I disagree that we can't get him. I believe we can. If the Suns are having the fire sale.... We offer, Bibby, Marvin, 1st for Nash. They have Barbosa who they have been trying to start for a while. Richardson, Hickson, and Frye... (after the trade).

Their core becomes: Barbosa, Richardson, Marvin, Hickson, and Frye. They also have Hill and Bibby off the bench. Plus a bevy of first round picks. They would become one of the cheaper teams in the league with good young players. (the BK plan).

We get Nash for that one shot:

Nash, Jamal, Joe, Smoove, Horf.

On paper, Nash sounds good.. but does he fit with the Hawks?

[MaceCase]

Steve Nash is a very smart man and player.

Steve Nash had the intelligence to see that ownership and that team were going nowhere.

Steve Nash still chose to sign an extension to close out his career as a Sun.

Steve Nash does not care about winning.

[NineOhTheRino]

Steve Nash is a very smart man and player.

Steve Nash had the intelligence to see that ownership and that team were going nowhere.

Steve Nash still chose to sign an extension to close out his career as a Sun.

Steve Nash does not care about winning.

I agree with you 100%. Nash puts a priority on being the #1 guy. He likes calling the shots and on that teams he gets to do it his way. If he were traded I bet he would retire before joining the team.

[spotatl]

Steve Nash is better than any player on the Hawks roster- you aren't going to trade for Steve Nash with the big pile of crap you are offering- and making the pile of crap bigger doesn't make the trade better. We offer We offer, "Bibby, Marvin, 1st for Nash" and they LAUGH. Seriously thats just insulting. Seriously you need to wake up.

[Diesel]

Steve Nash is better than any player on the Hawks roster- you aren't going to trade for Steve Nash with the big pile of crap you are offering- and making the pile of crap bigger doesn't make the trade better. We offer We offer, "Bibby, Marvin, 1st for Nash" and they LAUGH. Seriously thats just insulting. Seriously you need to wake up.

Aside from the talk about the trade pieces..

I really don't see Nash making us any better than Bibby can. Which is the point of the thread.

Nash is a great PG, but in our system, he would be a limited PG... Just like Bibby.

I would even say that Bibby shoots and defends slightly better than Nash.

I think the optimal fit for our offense is a guy who is a defense stopper than that shoot. The only guy that fits that is Chauncey Billups.

[spotatl]

What evidence do you have that if the Hawks had one of the top PG's in the league that Woodson would not put the ball in his hands? Seriously- look at the terrible PG's that Woodson has had since arriiving- I don't see any evidence at all he couldn't adapt to using a real PG if he were to ever get one. Look at how dramatically the team improved when he was able to even get a limited player like Mike Bibby.

[AHF]

I would even say that Bibby shoots and defends slightly better than Nash.

In what way does Bibby shoot better than Nash?

Nash's worst season in the past five years in FG%, 3PT% or FT% is much better than Bibby's best season in each of those categories.

Nash's TS% this season is 63.2%

Bibby's TS% this season is 52.5%

This isn't even close.

[Diesel]

What evidence do you have that if the Hawks had one of the top PG's in the league that Woodson would not put the ball in his hands? Seriously- look at the terrible PG's that Woodson has had since arriiving- I don't see any evidence at all he couldn't adapt to using a real PG if he were to ever get one. Look at how dramatically the team improved when he was able to even get a limited player like Mike Bibby.

I'm strickly looking at Role.

What Role has Bibby Played on Offense that is different than what Lue did.

Granted, Bibby was a better player than Lue. However, when you watch him play, Bibby does nothing different than Lue did.

[Diesel]

In what way does Bibby shoot better than Nash?

Nash's worst season in the past five years in FG%, 3PT% or FT% is much better than Bibby's best season in each of those categories.

Nash's TS% this season is 63.2%

Bibby's TS% this season is 52.5%

This isn't even close.

I stand correct. However, I don't think Nash would be the layup drill PG that he is now.. if wehad him.

[niremetal]

I stand correct. However, I don't think Nash would be the layup drill PG that he is now.. if wehad him.

You were right about one thing, though - Bibby does play better D than Nash. Bibby at least has some defensive savvy. Nash is both slow and perpetually lost on defense...I've never seen a PG who gets caught out of position on help D as often as Nash does. He constantly gives double teams that leave him in a spot where he's neither providing actual help nor in a position to get back to his man on time on a kick-out. It's incredible that he still hasn't figured it out after 14 years in the league, especially considering that he's one of the league's smartest players on offense.

[AtLaS]

I stand correct. However, I don't think Nash would be the layup drill PG that he is now.. if wehad him.

Steve Nash will go down as one of, if not the BEST shooter of all time. His combination of FG/3PT/FT is unprecedented. He's had almost 6 straight seasons with 50+ FG%, 40+ 3pt%, and 90+ FT%. The only two seasons in the past 6 that he wasn't in the 50/40/90 club was because he only shot 89.9% and 88.7% from the line in those two seasons. That is unbelievable. Not to mention he's one of the best passers in the NBA, his ball handling is much better, he can create his own shot (and make it at a higher rate) better, and he's probably the best PnR PG in the NBA.

Nash would make us so much better than Bibby ever could. Yeah, he sucks at D, but with the comparison to Bibby the difference is negligible.

Edited February 15, 2010 by AtLaS

[niremetal]

Btw - Bibby's still popular around Phoenix from his Zona days, but Suns fans would hang Sarver and Kerr if the Suns traded Nash. I can't imagine that a firesale will include him.

[tremor]

Nash in place of Bibby makes Hawks contender. I'd give Carwford and Bibby for him.

Steve would make Horf play like Amar'e with D in two years.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Diesel . . . you're way out in left field with this one. Nash SHOULD be averaging at least 23 ppg right now. Instead, he wastes possessions tossing the ball out to guys who don't shoot at good as he does. Phoenix would be an EXTREMELY dangerous team if he were taking 18 shots a game, instead of 13. Of course, he makes guys like Frye, Amare, and especially Jared Dudley, better players. But you're talking about a guy who can basically get his own shot anytime he wants . . . even at his age.

Nash's shooting vs Bibby shooting:

at rim: 72.7% FG on 2.1 shot attempts per game ( 6.5% of makes assisted ) . . . Bibby: 53.1% FG on 0.6 att/g ( 70.6% assisted )

< 10 ft: 47.5% FG on 1.1 att/g ( 3.6% assisted ) . . . Bibby: 72.7% FG on 0.2 att/g ( 25% assisted )

10 - 15 ft: 57.6% FG on 1.7 att/g ( none assisted ) . . . Bibby: 21.1% FG on 0.4 att/g ( none assisted )

16 - 23 ft: 48% FG on 4.1 att/g ( 7.7% assisted ) . . . Bibby: 43% FG on 2.8 att/g ( 66.1 assisted )

Three Pt: 43.7% FG on 4.1 att/g ( 23% assisted ) . . . Bibby: 36.9% FG on 4.0 att/g ( 96% assisted )

While the shooting percentages are off the charts, the real incredible thing about Nash is that he's shooting this well WITHOUT anybody setting him up for wide open looks. The ONLY guy in the league that comes close to doing what Nash does from a "self-creation of shot standpoint", is Chris Paul.

We could go ISO-Nash . . or play Nash off the ball while JJ dribbled and passed out to him . . and Nash would FLAT OUT KILL PEOPLE.

As good as he makes that Phoenix team with his playmaking, if that dude averaged 23 - 25 ppg ( which he could easily do ) . . Phoenix would be battling the Lakers for the #1 spot, instead of trying to just keep pace with the rest of the West just to stay in the playoff hunt.

You swap Nash for Crawford and Bibby, and as long as Nash stayed healthy, the Hawks would be an NBA Title contender. Everyone's play would elevate with Nash in the mix. Hell, Nash could even make Marvin look like a very good player.

Edited February 15, 2010 by northcyde

[Diesel]

Diesel . . . you're way out in left field with this one. Nash SHOULD be averaging at least 23 ppg right now. Instead, he wastes possessions tossing the ball out to guys who don't shoot at good as he does. Phoenix would be an EXTREMELY dangerous team if he were taking 18 shots a game, instead of 13. Of course, he makes guys like Frye, Amare, and especially Jared Dudley, better players. But you're talking about a guy who can basically get his own shot anytime he wants . . . even at his age.

This is part of my argument.

Bibby.. when we got him, was a 18 ppg player. Now, he's an 11 ppg player. I don't think that it's all because of his age, I think it's mostly because of the offense we run. Bibby gives up shots to the likes of Joe, Smoove, Jamal, and Horf. How do you think Nash will do under the same circumstance.

Passing to Joe, Smoove, Jamal, and Horf is much better than Richardson, Frye, Amare, and Dudley. Moreover, with JJ and Jamal dominating the ball, I just don't see Nash as being able to run an acceptable offense.

These of course are answers we don't know.

[bonethugz]

nash really plays like a qb. i meant you can really compare him to a qb. does everything on offense and absolutely nothing on defense.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

This is part of my argument.

Bibby.. when we got him, was a 18 ppg player. Now, he's an 11 ppg player. I don't think that it's all because of his age, I think it's mostly because of the offense we run. Bibby gives up shots to the likes of Joe, Smoove, Jamal, and Horf. How do you think Nash will do under the same circumstance.

Passing to Joe, Smoove, Jamal, and Horf is much better than Richardson, Frye, Amare, and Dudley. Moreover, with JJ and Jamal dominating the ball, I just don't see Nash as being able to run an acceptable offense.

These of course are answers we don't know.

This is why I say that Woody is smarter than us fans. Bibby's career was already in decline when he came here. Yeah, he was averaging 18 ppg, but look at his shooting % that year, and in the years previous. Bibby playing the point, but playing off of JJ, stretched out his career.

The reason why JJ and Crawford dominiate the ball, is because they have to. They're the only 2 guys on the team who can create AND make shots ( no matter the difficulty ) on the team. Most of your top PGs possess this quality. Bibby can't do it anymore, especially when you're talking about taking the ball to the rim.

Nash can.

To believe that Woody wouldn't put the ball in Nash's hands, considering how Woody loves guards who can score in ISO situations, is kind of silly. Woody even put the ball in Flip's hands . . even Lue's. So it makes no sense to believe that he wouldn't do the same thing with Nash. He would give Nash "Peyton Manning-like" control over the playcalling at times.