Marvin bashing is getting old, unwarranted, and hypocritical

[Diesel]

Yeah, it was actually Levinson's idea. You know these rich guys, always overvaluing "the arts."

Maybe Marvin has taken to heart: "practice what you know, and it will help to make clear what now you do not know."

or maybe Marvin feels this way:

"We're talking about practice, man. I mean, how silly is that? We're talking about practice. I know I'm supposed to be there. I know I'm supposed to lead by example . . . I know it's important . . . I honestly do. But we're talking about practice, man. What are we talking about? Practice?"

“You play. To win. The game.”

[tonegully]

GO MARVIN!!!!

[Plainview1981]

//\

I know there is a Marvin Thread, but what I have to say is too big for one little reply so....I already expect plenty thumbs down, so it doesn't matter.

For starts, 2005 was 5 years ago, and people still bust no pun intended on this guy. He is what he is. How many points have YOU scored in the NBA?

Secondly, the dude is averaging 10 and 5. Not outstanding, not eye popping, but blue collar nimbers for a dude that is the 6 option of this team. He can't post because of Smoove, Zaza and Al, and he can't be on the outside with Joe, Craw, and or Bibs, maybe even Teague at times. What else can he do? Do you expect him to drop 19 a game getting putback slams? If so...please, just log off. He isn't even in his prime yet. And the funny thing is the people that bust on Marvin are the same people that defend Joes atrocious shot selection. Joe Johnson is averaging a grand total of 21 points a game. 5 rebounds, a 4 assists. he plays almost 10 more mins than Marvin, and is the focal point of our offense....you mean to tell me Marvin couldn't do that as the nimber one option?....

Marvin is our glue.

He is the 6th option on this team because he chooses to not be aggressive enough. Anyone that comes on this team that is offensive minded will probably outscore Marvin... Murray was a player that signed here last year as a player nobody else wanted and he came right in here and basically moved ahead of Marvin on the option chart. That's just ridiculous. His progression has advanced little if any at all. Very little pressure is put on Marvin and he still barely shoots decent percentages and he can step up his game when others are off. How is Marvin "the glue" when the teams win/loss record is so good over the last few years without him? The team is something like 15-6 without him the last few years. And those L's were to the following teams:

Cleveland

SA

Boston

Philly

Boston

Orlando

Memphis

The last loss was to Memphis in a meaningless game if I remember correctly. The rest of the teams the Hawks struggled with badly last season and most likely would have lost anyway.

Edited March 3, 2010 by Hotlanta1981

[Plainview1981]

When Joe Leaves I bet my left testicle he becomes a 18 8 guy at the very least.

Where was Marvin's production when Josh was out in November of 2008?

[the_sheff]

To defend Marvin you seriously asked how many points we scored in the NBA? Man thats a new low when trying to get a point across. I guess all those fans who crapped on Darko shouldnt have because he has score more points in the NBA than they have. Not to say marvin is Darko status but that wasnt a good way to try and prove a point.

[FrankWhite]

Either you think Marvin can fulfill a role this team needs or you think he's Sam Bowie Pt. 2 X 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There's no middle ground at this point.

[Diesel]

I challenge any Marvin defender.. answer my simple question.

Mentally, Put Marvin on another team. Never have been a Hawk.

We are in need of a Sf and we have 7.5 Million under the cap.

How Many of you would look at Marvin's stats:

2009-10 Statistics

PPG 10.1

RPG 5.0

APG 1.1

SPG 0.7

BPG 0.7

FG% 0.442

FT% 0.822

3P% 0.330

MPG 29.7

and say, you know we ought to spend the 7.5 Million over the next 4 years on this guy....

Or how many of you would look for a cheaper solution like:

Wally Z, Larry Hughes, Rashard McCants, Donyell Marshall, Linton Johnson, Yaroslav Korolev, Julius Hodges, Micheal Finley, or Gerald Green.... etc....

[Plainview1981]

I challenge any Marvin defender.. answer my simple question.

Mentally, Put Marvin on another team. Never have been a Hawk.

We are in need of a Sf and we have 7.5 Million under the cap.

How Many of you would look at Marvin's stats:

2009-10 Statistics

PPG 10.1

RPG 5.0

APG 1.1

SPG 0.7

BPG 0.7

FG% 0.442

FT% 0.822

3P% 0.330

MPG 29.7

and say, you know we ought to spend the 7.5 Million over the next 4 years on this guy....

Or how many of you would look for a cheaper solution like:

Wally Z, Larry Hughes, Rashard McCants, Donyell Marshall, Linton Johnson, Yaroslav Korolev, Julius Hodges, Micheal Finley, or Gerald Green.... etc....

I will say that I wouldn't rather have those guys. All those guys suck at this point.

[Diesel]

I will say that I wouldn't rather have those guys. All those guys suck at this point.

But for what Marvin brings to the table, would you trade for him and 7.5 Milli per over the next 4?

[MVP23]

I challenge any Marvin defender.. answer my simple question.

Mentally, Put Marvin on another team. Never have been a Hawk.

We are in need of a Sf and we have 7.5 Million under the cap.

How Many of you would look at Marvin's stats:

2009-10 Statistics

PPG 10.1

RPG 5.0

APG 1.1

SPG 0.7

BPG 0.7

FG% 0.442

FT% 0.822

3P% 0.330

MPG 29.7

and say, you know we ought to spend the 7.5 Million over the next 4 years on this guy....

Or how many of you would look for a cheaper solution like:

Wally Z, Larry Hughes, Rashard McCants, Donyell Marshall, Linton Johnson, Yaroslav Korolev, Julius Hodges, Micheal Finley, or Gerald Green.... etc....

Wally is a billion years old, Larry Hughes is a guard, McCants is no better than Marvin, Donyell Marshall is also a billion years olds, who is Linton Johnson, who is Yaroslav Korolev, Julius Hodges is a poor mans Tryus Thomas, FInley would be a great backup to Marv and Gerald Green is a poor mans Smoove..

Yeah...thanks for proving my point. Replace ANY of these guys for Marv and we're where we were last year..maybe even worse.

[pimp]

I just saw this Marvin thread on a football message board ..... /

http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=378945&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

[Plainview1981]

But for what Marvin brings to the table, would you trade for him and 7.5 Milli per over the next 4?

Almost none of those guys help this team at all. Not even Wally.

[MaceCase]

Hmm, pay league average salary for league average production or pay any amount of salary for less than league minimum production. Great debate.

[mrhonline]

Diesel,

I like the fact that Marvin is signed for several more years, so I would rule out older guys with short deals like Prince, Hill, Battier or Barnes. What I don't like is the overpayment by ~1 - 1.5M per season, so I'd be fine with a Ryan Gomes trade.

[Dragitoff]

I'm really on the fence about Marvin, but I was listening to ESPN Radio on my way home last night and Brian Kenney made some points about AI that made me think about Marvin. He was saying AI was always a guy that was "going to get his". That didn't necessarily mean he was a productive player, it just meant he took enough shots to eventually get his 25-35 points. He said guys like AI are not good for teams because they are always looking out for themselves. There aren't enough "team oriented players" out there anymore. I instantly thought of Marvin how he doesn't look for his shot and seldom does he have anything run for him. He's a kick out option or afterthought on offense. On this team, I'm not sure if that's a bad thing necessarily. Could it have stunted his growth (not being a go-to option)? Maybe, but I have no problem with him averaging 10-13PPG on THIS team. Yeah, you expect more from a 2nd overall pick, but he's not hurting this team most of the time. Just my opinion and some random thoughts.

[AHF]

Nor I am blaming Marvin for 2005.

I will believe that when this no longer appears in your posts:

But was drafted higher than everybody else on the team and in the franchise's history.

[niremetal]

I challenge any Marvin defender.. answer my simple question.

Mentally, Put Marvin on another team. Never have been a Hawk.

We are in need of a Sf and we have 7.5 Million under the cap.

How Many of you would look at Marvin's stats:

2009-10 Statistics

PPG 10.1

RPG 5.0

APG 1.1

SPG 0.7

BPG 0.7

FG% 0.442

FT% 0.822

3P% 0.330

MPG 29.7

and say, you know we ought to spend the 7.5 Million over the next 4 years on this guy....

Or how many of you would look for a cheaper solution like:

Wally Z, Larry Hughes, Rashard McCants, Donyell Marshall, Linton Johnson, Yaroslav Korolev, Julius Hodges, Micheal Finley, or Gerald Green.... etc....

The fact that you think there's a GM in the league who would rather have Yaroslav Korolev for the minimum instead of Marvin for $7.5M pretty much confirms that you have zero perspective on Marvin.

Considering that Marvin is a better and more versatile defender than any of the guys on that list and also a better offensive player, that's an easy question - I would rather have Marvin. You could do the same thing with Shane Battier or Tayshaun Prince. Like those guys, the advanced stats and simple observations indicate that Marvin brings more to the table than is shown in individual box score stats. I've done this before: Check out the 82games.com pages for the Hawks, Cavs, Celts, and Magic. If you click on each player’s name and scroll down, you see a row labeled “Defense: Pts per 100 Poss.” The two numeric columns show how many points per 100 possessions the team allows when the player is on the court versus when he is off the court. Marvin has the best net rating (-9.6) for that not just on the Hawks, and not just among the SFs on those teams, but amongst ALL rotation players on those 4 teams. But you will never acknowledge that Marvin has become an excellent defender. Instead, you'll dismiss all stats and facts that people REPEATEDLY bring to your attention and that are inconvenient to your obsession with bashing Marvin as "excuses."

I still can't believe you think that Rick Sund and Mike Woodson are so wedded to Marvin's draft position 5 years ago that they re-signed him to a $37.5M year deal and keep starting him, respectively, solely to keep Billy Knight from looking bad. You have no evidence of that, no precedent you can cite that indicates that.

I mean, Yaroslav Korolev and Linton Johnson. You've become a caricature of yourself, Diesel.

Edited March 3, 2010 by niremetal

[MVP23]

I'm really on the fence about Marvin, but I was listening to ESPN Radio on my way home last night and Brian Kenney made some points about AI that made me think about Marvin. He was saying AI was always a guy that was "going to get his". That didn't necessarily mean he was a productive player, it just meant he took enough shots to eventually get his 25-35 points. He said guys like AI are not good for teams because they are always looking out for themselves. There aren't enough "team oriented players" out there anymore. I instantly thought of Marvin how he doesn't look for his shot and seldom does he have anything run for him. He's a kick out option or afterthought on offense. On this team, I'm not sure if that's a bad thing necessarily. Could it have stunted his growth (not being a go-to option)? Maybe, but I have no problem with him averaging 10-13PPG on THIS team. Yeah, you expect more from a 2nd overall pick, but he's not hurting this team most of the time. Just my opinion and some random thoughts.

Bless You

[Diesel]

Almost none of those guys help this team at all. Not even Wally.

Neither does Marvin.

[Diesel]

Wally is a billion years old, Larry Hughes is a guard, McCants is no better than Marvin, Donyell Marshall is also a billion years olds, who is Linton Johnson, who is Yaroslav Korolev, Julius Hodges is a poor mans Tryus Thomas, FInley would be a great backup to Marv and Gerald Green is a poor mans Smoove..

Yeah...thanks for proving my point. Replace ANY of these guys for Marv and we're where we were last year..maybe even worse.

I'm glad that you can find the flaws in some of the guys I named, but yet, you can't find the flaws In Marvin?

Wally and Donyell are a billion years old, yet for the vet Min, they can both produce more than Marvin.

Larry Hughes is a guard and Joe can play 3. And for the vet min, he will outproduce Marvin.

Juilus Hodges may be a poor man's Tyrus Thomas but for the vet Min, he will outproduce Marvin.

Gerald Green is not a poor Man's SMoove... But he would out produce Marvin for the vet Min.