Hubie Brown give honest assesment of Hawks on 680

[TheNorthCydeRises]

* Great point about JJ and Crawford's scroing being down in the regular season against them.

- JJ ( 18 ppg during the season ) . . . Crawford ( 12 ppg during the season ). . . lol . . we were down ( -10 ) from the jump

* Analyze what your team does vs the top 6 teams ( CLE, ORL, LAL, DAL, DEN, PHX )

Joe Johnson

CLE . . 21 pts - 6 rebs - 3.5 asst - 46% FG

ORL . . 16 pts - 6 rebs - 5 asst - 38% FG

LAL . . 26 pts - 6 rebs - 6 asst - 50% FG

DAL . . 29 pts - 6 rebs - 6.5 asst - 53% FG

DEN . . 19 pts - 6 rebs - 7 asst - 45% FG

PHX . . 19 pts- 7.5 rebs - 4 asst - 42% FG

((( Orlando definitely had JJ's number, I think, because the presence of Howard takes away his favorite shot . . . the floater )))

Josh Smith

CLE . .15 pts - 7 rebs - 4 asst - 50% FG

ORL . . 14 pts - 8 rebs - 3 asst - 40% FG

LAL . . 9.5 pts - 7 rebs - 6.5 asst - 41% FG

DAL . . 15 pts - 8.5 rebs - 5 asst - 46% FG

DEN . . 19.5 pts - 9 rebs - 4.5 asst - 62% FG

PHX . . 20 pts - 10 rebs - 2 asst - 50% FG

(((( the extremely low shooting % against Orlando and the Lakers doesn't surprise me one bit. Big and athletic frontlines always give him trouble )))

Al Horford

CLE . .11 pts - 8 rebs - 3 asst - 43% FG

ORL . . 8 pts - 7 rebs - 1 asst - 53% FG

LAL . . 8 pts - 7 rebs - 1 asst - 50% FG

DAL . . 12 pts - 7 rebs - 2.5 asst - 35% FG

DEN . . 14.5 pts - 11.5 rebs - 3 asst - 79% FG

PHX . . 17 pts - 9 rebs - 0.5 asst - 61% FG

(((( As with Josh Smith, no surprise that his numbers are way down against the teams with big centers - Shaq, Howard, Bynum )))

Jamal Crawford

CLE . . 18 pts - 4 rebs - 2 asst - 40% FG

ORL . . 12.5 pts - 2.5 rebs - 2 asst - 31% FG

LAL . . 15.5 pts - 2.5 rebs - 1.5 asst - 39% FG

DAL . . 12 pts - 2.5 rebs - 2.5 asst - 29% FG

DEN . . 24.5 pts - 3.5 rebs - 3 asst - 57% FG

PHX . . 16 pts - 1.5 rebs - 2.5 asst - 38% FG

((( For all of you who are Jamal Crawford supporters . . look at his FG% against those top teams. If we lose JJ, this is a huge RED FLAG for all of those who think he can step up in the absence of JJ

* Getting your team high percentage shots . . ( which is a great point, because they took away our transition offense, and JJ's floater, and Horford and Smith in the paint )

* Can you stop a team off the dribble? . . ( we definitely couldn't . . relating to our perimeter defense )

* Blasts Josh Smith about that critical point during the Orlando game in Game 2 . . ( which is correct)

* Accountability . . ( who was making the Hawks accountable for doing what they were supposed to do . . . this was a direct shot at Woody, in my opinion )

* Joe Johnson's comments . . ( haha @ Hubie telling it like it is, to the people who want JJ to walk . .Hubie: "who the hell are you going to get to replace 21 pts - 5 rebs - 5 asst?" . . He gives JJ a pass, calling his comments immature and out of frustration )

* He makes the correct correlation with Vince and JJ. . . They're not Kobe and Wade, but still a top player, and the BIG DOG on their particular team. And he disses "potential". He's dead on the money with that. ( potential - see Marvin Williams ).

* Definitely indicts Woody and the offense for not adjusting to playoff basketball, and especially not being able to get JJ and Crawford better shots outside of isolation.

* Addresses Lebron possibly guarding Rondo, which he only in favor of for doing for a few minutes, not the entire game . . . ( which brings up back to JJ guarding quick PGs )

* Toughest thing for a young team to do, is to win the 2nd round . . . ( it definitely puts the situation we were in, in perspective . . . calls the Magic a bad matchup )

Edited May 12, 2010 by northcyde

[Joker]

northcyde, good post.

[rusty]

* Great point about JJ and Crawford's scroing being down in the regular season against them.

- JJ ( 18 ppg during the season ) . . . Crawford ( 12 ppg during the season ). . . lol . . we were down ( -10 ) from the jump

* Analyze what your team does vs the top 6 teams ( CLE, ORL, LAL, DAL, DEN, PHX )

Joe Johnson

CLE . . 21 pts - 6 rebs - 3.5 asst - 46% FG

ORL . . 16 pts - 6 rebs - 5 asst - 38% FG

LAL . . 26 pts - 6 rebs - 6 asst - 50% FG

DAL . . 29 pts - 6 rebs - 6.5 asst - 53% FG

DEN . . 19 pts - 6 rebs - 7 asst - 45% FG

PHX . . 19 pts- 7.5 rebs - 4 asst - 42% FG

((( Orlando definitely had JJ's number, I think, because the presence of Howard takes away his favorite shot . . . the floater )))

Josh Smith

CLE . .15 pts - 7 rebs - 4 asst - 50% FG

ORL . . 14 pts - 8 rebs - 3 asst - 40% FG

LAL . . 9.5 pts - 7 rebs - 6.5 asst - 41% FG

DAL . . 15 pts - 8.5 rebs - 5 asst - 46% FG

DEN . . 19.5 pts - 9 rebs - 4.5 asst - 62% FG

PHX . . 20 pts - 10 rebs - 2 asst - 50% FG

(((( the extremely low shooting % against Orlando and the Lakers doesn't surprise me one bit. Big and athletic frontlines always give him trouble )))

Al Horford

CLE . .11 pts - 8 rebs - 3 asst - 43% FG

ORL . . 8 pts - 7 rebs - 1 asst - 53% FG

LAL . . 8 pts - 7 rebs - 1 asst - 50% FG

DAL . . 12 pts - 7 rebs - 2.5 asst - 35% FG

DEN . . 14.5 pts - 11.5 rebs - 3 asst - 79% FG

PHX . . 17 pts - 9 rebs - 0.5 asst - 61% FG

(((( As with Josh Smith, no surprise that his numbers are way down against the teams with big centers - Shaq, Howard, Bynum )))

Jamal Crawford

CLE . . 18 pts - 4 rebs - 2 asst - 40% FG

ORL . . 12.5 pts - 2.5 rebs - 2 asst - 31% FG

LAL . . 15.5 pts - 2.5 rebs - 1.5 asst - 39% FG

DAL . . 12 pts - 2.5 rebs - 2.5 asst - 29% FG

DEN . . 24.5 pts - 3.5 rebs - 3 asst - 57% FG

PHX . . 16 pts - 1.5 rebs - 2.5 asst - 38% FG

((( For all of you who are Jamal Crawford supporters . . look at his FG% against those top teams. If we lose JJ, this is a huge RED FLAG for all of those who think he can step up in the absence of JJ

* Getting your team high percentage shots . . ( which is a great point, because they took away our transition offense, and JJ's floater, and Horford and Smith in the paint )

* Can you stop a team off the dribble? . . ( we definitely couldn't . . relating to our perimeter defense )

* Blasts Josh Smith about that critical point during the Orlando game in Game 2 . . ( which is correct)

* Accountability . . ( who was making the Hawks accountable for doing what they were supposed to do . . . this was a direct shot at Woody, in my opinion )

* Joe Johnson's comments . . ( haha @ Hubie telling it like it is, to the people who want JJ to walk . .Hubie: "who the hell are you going to get to replace 21 pts - 5 rebs - 5 asst?" . . He gives JJ a pass, calling his comments immature and out of frustration )

* He makes the correct correlation with Vince and JJ. . . They're not Kobe and Wade, but still a top player, and the BIG DOG on their particular team. And he disses "potential". He's dead on the money with that. ( potential - see Marvin Williams ).

* Definitely indicts Woody and the offense for not adjusting to playoff basketball, and especially not being able to get JJ and Crawford better shots outside of isolation.

* Addresses Lebron possibly guarding Rondo, which he only in favor of for doing for a few minutes, not the entire game . . . ( which brings up back to JJ guarding quick PGs )

* Toughest thing for a young team to do, is to win the 2nd round . . . ( it definitely puts the situation we were in, in perspective . . . calls the Magic a bad matchup )

after all that you didnt explain why we got our *ss kicked & why charotte played them close

[niremetal]

after all that you didnt explain why we got our *ss kicked & why charotte played them close

I often don't agree with Northcyde, but I thought that post made it pretty damned clear why. Our best scorers are terrible against Orlando. Hell, he even gave you some blurbs on why.

[Joker]

after all that you didnt explain why we got our *ss kicked & why charotte played them close

I listened to Josh Smith post game presser. He said something that stood out. He said we didn't know what to take away, Howard or the shooters. The problem was Lewis would go to the three point line and Dwight would post up Horford. Smith is our defensive anchor and if you take him away, you completely weaken the Hawks defense. Horford gave no resistance to Howard because Howard is a much better center than Horford is. In most games, Smith is on Horford backside closing out the paint for the player who Horford is guarding. What Orlando was doing was running their offense through Dwight, he would either attack and score unless Smith was on the backside and if Smith was on the backside he would pass to the guard on the opposite side, and since we were closing in on Dwight as a team, that guard would be open for a second and he would either shoot it or pass it to Lewis for an open three. Not to mention, Jameer was having his way with anyone we put in front of him and Vince Carter is the Hawk killer who is very difficult to guard one on one for any defender.

They took away a big part of our offense by Dwight alone. We had no second chance opportunities which is an extremely big part of our offense since we are a jump-shooting team. Smith's in the paint abilities was taking away by Dwight presence as well as Horford. We really had mismatch issues. It's not like Orlando hasn't killed us during the season and preseason as well.

[AHawks89]

Josh Smith seemed to play the best of all them against the best teams. Jamal didn't do that bad. Joe did ok.l

[Admin]

And do you know the way to defeat (or at least compete) with a team like Orlando? You have a a PG and a SF that are not only capable but actually do drive into the paint looking to score, thereby creating direct fouls from Dwight on that player or from Dwight rotating over to stop the penetration and then trying to get back to his man after the dribbler has passed to Dwight's man. That's the only way to be able to compete with Orlando because if they're not in foul trouble and they're stroking it from deep they are unbeatable. But when we have 4 guys standing around on the perimeter on offense who prefer to take jumpers rather than drive the ball hard to the rim it's very difficult to get him in foul trouble. It's easy to see why Charlotte was able to be competitive because they've got multiple guards/forwards that constantly attack the basket.

Outside of replacing Woodson my big hope for next year is that we'll have a PG and a SF who look to attack the paint or at least break down the defense with dribble penetration and who also don't get their shot blocked routinely in the paint or fall over awkwardly upon contact.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

after all that you didnt explain why we got our *ss kicked & why charotte played them close

Because Charlotte had the #1 defense in the NBA. And because Dwight Howard stayed in foul trouble the entire series.

A great defense can always keep you in a game, no matter what sport you're talking about. Charlotte also had 3 big legit centers that they could throw up against Dwight Howard.

It was that, plus Charlotte relentlessly attacking the rim, that kept Dwight Howard in foul trouble all throughout that series. The problem though, was that Orlando was the #3 defense in the league, and found it very difficult to score on the Magic, even when they were stopping the Magic on the other end.

The Hawks have more talent than the Bobcats. But the Bobcats are MUCH TOUGHER PHYSICALLY than we are. That's the main reason why they gave them a better series than we did.

[NJHAWK]

I think that you are underrating his defenses. In 2003 - 2004 the Grizzlies were 7th in offense and 11th in defense and that was with a young team filled with role players and a young star. The previous year they were 17th in offense and 27th in defense.

An "ok" coach? He took a Memphis team that had never been good with a 23 year old Gasol and a bunch of role players and won 50 games (4th in their division!!) in the Western Conference with them in just his 2nd year with the team. That was a 22 game improvement over the previous season!

Now I'm not saying that I want Hubie as our coach but it's only because there's zero chance of it being a long term option. If that weren't the case he'd be a clear upgrade over Woodson and would be just the type of coach that our players need to take their games to the next level.

I dont remember a whole lot about that Memphis team but they must have gotten swept in round 1 because I heard Gasol never won a playoff game without Kobe. My main point is in that interview Hubie sounds like a guru who has gotten a team through the nba playoffs before and won a championship. He acts like he has been there and done that.

Edited May 13, 2010 by NJHAWK

[Buzzard]

I dont remember a whole lot about that Memphis team but they must have gotten swept in round 1 because I heard Gasol never won a playoff game without Kobe. My main point is in that interview Hubie sounds like a guru who has gotten a team through the nba playoffs before and won a championship. He acts like he has been there and done that.

I agree man and I love Hubie. He is entertaining and opinionated. I have just learned to take him with a grain of salt when it comes to his Phil Jackson and Pat Riley like expertise (wanna be guruness). But no doubt; he would have done a better job in his prime than Woody. I am not saying he is the best coach we have ever had; for me that is the Czar, but he was in his prime better than Woody.

Edited May 13, 2010 by Buzzard

[coachx]

I agree man and I love Hubie. He is entertaining and opinionated. I have just learned to take him with a grain of salt when it comes to his Phil Jackson and Pat Riley like expertise (wanna be guruness). But no doubt; he would have done a better job in his prime than Woody. I am not saying he is the best coach we have ever had; for me that is the Czar, but he was in his prime better than Woody.

You guys trip me out. You do know "The Czar" trained under Brown. He was Hubie's tops assistant in Atlanta. Without Hubie there would be no "Czar."

Give Phil Jackson that Memphis team and see what he gets done. See if he wins 50 games with them and even gets them in the playoffs.

Phil has never coached a team that did not have the #1 player in the NBA on it (except the 2 years Jordan retired after his dad died). I would be interested to see how he does when his best player is #20-25 with no other player in the top 50. He has never had the guts to even attempt to coach a team like that.

I ask you.........what did Phil Jackson get done in those 2 years MJ retired after his fathers death ? How far did Scottie Pippen and Phil Jackson take those Bulls teams ? Too bad JJ is not as good as Pippen was and those Bulls teams never got out of the 2nd round either during those 2 years.

Edited May 13, 2010 by coachx

[Joker]

You guys trip me out. You do know "The Czar" trained under Brown. He was Hubie's tops assistant in Atlanta. Without Hubie there would be no "Czar."

Give Phil Jackson that Memphis team and see what he gets done. See if he wins 50 games with them and even gets them in the playoffs.

Phil has never coached a team that did not have the #1 player in the NBA on it (except the 2 years Jordan retired after his dad died). I would be interested to see how he does when his best player is #20-25 with no other player in the top 50. He has never had the guts to even attempt to coach a team like that.

I ask you.........what did Phil Jackson get done in those 2 years MJ retired after his fathers death ? How far did Scottie Pippen and Phil Jackson take those Bulls teams ? Too bad JJ is not as good as Pippen was and those Bulls teams never got out of the 2nd round either during those 2 years.

I would agree Scottie was one of the best players in the NBA during Phil's time in Chicago.

[NJHAWK]

You guys trip me out. You do know "The Czar" trained under Brown. He was Hubie's tops assistant in Atlanta. Without Hubie there would be no "Czar."

Give Phil Jackson that Memphis team and see what he gets done. See if he wins 50 games with them and even gets them in the playoffs.

Phil has never coached a team that did not have the #1 player in the NBA on it (except the 2 years Jordan retired after his dad died). I would be interested to see how he does when his best player is #20-25 with no other player in the top 50. He has never had the guts to even attempt to coach a team like that.

I ask you.........what did Phil Jackson get done in those 2 years MJ retired after his fathers death ? How far did Scottie Pippen and Phil Jackson take those Bulls teams ? Too bad JJ is not as good as Pippen was and those Bulls teams never got out of the 2nd round either during those 2 years.

Too bad JJ didnt play with MJ under Phil when the leagues other great players besides MJ ( Magic, Isiah, Bird) were in the sunset of they're careers and the league was watered down.

[Buzzard]

You guys trip me out. You do know "The Czar" trained under Brown. He was Hubie's tops assistant in Atlanta. Without Hubie there would be no "Czar."

Give Phil Jackson that Memphis team and see what he gets done. See if he wins 50 games with them and even gets them in the playoffs.

Phil has never coached a team that did not have the #1 player in the NBA on it (except the 2 years Jordan retired after his dad died). I would be interested to see how he does when his best player is #20-25 with no other player in the top 50. He has never had the guts to even attempt to coach a team like that.

I ask you.........what did Phil Jackson get done in those 2 years MJ retired after his fathers death ? How far did Scottie Pippen and Phil Jackson take those Bulls teams ? Too bad JJ is not as good as Pippen was and those Bulls teams never got out of the 2nd round either during those 2 years.

So Mike owes all his money and success to Hubie. I guess you owe all yours to your former boss. Coach you trip me out LMAO....would you also keep Woody over Pat or Phil?

Edited May 13, 2010 by Buzzard

[coachx]

So Mike owes all his money and success to Hubie. I guess you owe all yours to your former boss. Coach you trip me out LMAO....would you also keep Woody over Pat or Phil?

I was simply commenting on you dissing Hubie Brown right before calling Mike Fratello the best Hawks coach of all time. Making a comment like that tells me yoy did not know Hubie took Fratello from being a college assistant to the NBA and taught him the NBA game.

Yes..........without Hubie Brown there is no guarantee Mike Fratello would have ever gotten a crack in the NBA. Comparing that to me. Well, I'm an insurance agent.........so that is a stupidd comaprison to an NBA head coach. How many 5'3'' NBA head coaches, like Mike Fratello, have you seen ?

2 jobs got handed to Mike Fratello b/c of Brown ----Atlanta and Memphis. Fratello would have never gotten the Cleveland had not been the head coach of Atlanta first. Now I'm not a Fratello hater. He is my favorite Hawks coach too and would be thrilled if he was brought back for a 2nd tour of duty in Atlanta.

I have NEVER said I would resign Woody. Where do you get your material ?

Edited May 13, 2010 by coachx

[Buzzard]

I was simply commenting on you dissing Hubie Brown right before calling Mike Fratello the best Hawks coach of all time. Making a comment like that tells me yoy did not know Hubie took Fratello from being a college assistant to the NBA and taught him the NBA game.

Yes..........without Hubie Brown there is no guarantee Mike Fratello would have ever gotten a crack in the NBA. Comparing that to me. Well, I'm an insurance agent.........so that is a stupidd comaprison to an NBA head coach. How many 5'3'' NBA head coaches, like Mike Fratello, have you seen ?

2 jobs got handed to Mike Fratello b/c of Brown ----Atlanta and Memphis. Fratello would have never gotten the Cleveland had not been the head coach of Atlanta first. Now I'm not a Fratello hater. He is my favorite Hawks coach too and would be thrilled if he was brought back for a 2nd tour of duty in Atlanta.

I have NEVER said I would resign Woody. Where do you get your material ?

Was not really dissing Hubie. He is heads above Woody in basketball IQ. I just do not think he is the same category as coaches who have been able to coach and soothe egos in the same manner as Phil, Pat, and Red.

I have been a casual fan since 1969 when we moved to Albany Ga. I bought a greatest players in the NBA paper back around that time and started playing pickup games at our elementary school. Moved to Atl in 1974 and really starting following the Hawks full time then.

Knowledge and making good decisions is not based on height no matter what profession you are in. Hubie may have given Mike his first break but he did not give him his mind. Just like your knowledge of your profession is not due to some mentor who taught you everything you know and will ever know concerning your profession. That was the point I was trying to make.

On the other bolded point; I was just being sarcasticly funny (I am a smart *ss at times) please don't take it as a serious comment.

Edited May 13, 2010 by Buzzard