Everyone on HS wants to break up this team

[shocker_90]

we have conditioned ourselves to not only expect but to hope for failure while hoping that something exists at the end of the tunnel. It's very sad that we feel like we need to break up what we wish'd we had 3 years ago.

You speak for youself........I did not wish for this crap 3 years ago. The only thing I have ever wished for the teams I follow are CHAMPIONSHIPS. If we are willing to accept another 5 years of what Mookie, Steve Smith and Mutombo gave us then that is the real problem.

[gsuteke]

You speak for youself........I did not wish for this crap 3 years ago. The only thing I have ever wished for the teams I follow are CHAMPIONSHIPS. If we are willing to accept another 5 years of what Mookie, Steve Smith and Mutombo gave us then that is the real problem.

lucky for the rest of us you are not the GM. How many championships have the Hawks won? Zero. And that isn't because they haven't made aggressive moves.

You want to complain about Mookie, Steve Smith, and Mutombo but you don't want to talk about Antione Walker, JR Rider, or Al Harrington.

You guys that want to save some money out of a rich guy's pocket are totally freaking joking yourselves. There is no way this team will be competitive without our overrated jump shooter and there is no way they will be bad enough to get a top 3 draft pick as is with the "talent" they have on the roster.

This team is in in-between land right now. Which way do you want to choose? The up or down?

Stop wishing for the worst Hawks fans. Get ahold of yourselves.

[Plainview1981]

The Hawks would have beat the Celtics' asses. The Hawks own the Celtics. However they got a bad matchup against Orlando.

So since the Hawks looked bad against Orlando Rick Sund needs to break up this squad? Really?

I think anyone who wants to trade any starter on our team outside of Marvin and Bibby is absolutely nuts. This team is young and all but 1 team winds up dissapointed in the end each season. LBJ got booed as well but do you think Cleveland fans don't want Lebron back? C'mon. Seriously?

Boston looks better than they did in the regular season. Plus Rondo is playing insame.

[HawksFan87]

I've said that before, they think trading away certain players will solve everything when it won't. It will only guarantee us being in the lottery for the next 5 years. I think we need to add to what we already have, and that includes a new coach, with a real offense and defensive strategy..

[the_sheff]

I think we would all be satisfied if we simply fired Woody.

[dlpin]

The Hawks would have beat the Celtics' asses. The Hawks own the Celtics. However they got a bad matchup against Orlando.

So since the Hawks looked bad against Orlando Rick Sund needs to break up this squad? Really?

I think anyone who wants to trade any starter on our team outside of Marvin and Bibby is absolutely nuts. This team is young and all but 1 team winds up dissapointed in the end each season. LBJ got booed as well but do you think Cleveland fans don't want Lebron back? C'mon. Seriously?

This isn't the regular season. People who thought this was the regular season are the ones who picked cleveland to own the celtics. This celtics team had lost twice by double digits in the regular season against the cavs (and only won the last game because the cavs had already clinched the top seed). The celtics were clearly saving themselves and their playbook for the playoffs.

The hawks, meanwhile, basically played their playoff rotation for the entire season, and made no adjustments for the playoffs. Not saying that the celtics would beat the hawks, but these celtics are clearly not the same celtics the hawks played before.

And in any case, so what? Is the goal for the hawks to beat the celtics? Would the hawks hang a banner saying "we beat the celtics" if they did? Because if that is the goal, then that is fine. But if the goal is to win a championship, then matchups are irrelevant. The hawks might match up better with the celtics, but if the goal is to win the championship, they'd have to eventually go through Orlando anyways. And unless something major happens, this team will be killed by Orlando every year. Howard is young and is not going anywhere.

[Diesel]

Turrrrible analogy.

The Cavs don't want to break their team up because they have the best and most marketable player in the NBA, along with an ownership that is willing to spend whatever it takes to get a championship.

It has been proven that Lebron is not the best player in the nba. Kobe laughs at you. So does Rondo and Howard.

Secondly, the Cavs are in the exact same spot as us. Cleveland has to make it past Boston and Orlando in the future. Back to Back playoff exits for them too.

However, we're younger, we have more chemistry, and we might get a better coach?

[Kimsey]

Don't see what others see but this reinforces my opinion you can't put all your eggs in one basket. James is uber great but you can't put rentals around him and expect immediate results. The pg position is so vital and we had six years to acquire, develop, and play one but chose not to thinking a "superstar" was efficient enough to compensate for one.

We need to put big money in a pg this year or next and the pieces will fall into place. You can see how Rondo when owning his game, just imposes his entire will against the cavs starters.

Mo Williams and Bibby were very similar players around the same age and now you can see a true point guard not a good 3 point shooter is the way go about things.

[Plainview1981]

It has been proven that Lebron is not the best player in the nba. Kobe laughs at you. So does Rondo and Howard.

Secondly, the Cavs are in the exact same spot as us. Cleveland has to make it past Boston and Orlando in the future. Back to Back playoff exits for them too.

However, we're younger, we have more chemistry, and we might get a better coach?

It didn't seem like Lebron brought his heart into this series, but Rondo isn't close to the player LBJ is. It should be kept in mind that a great series for Rondo is just another day at the office for Lebron. Ditto for Howard. Howard is good, but you didn't see him destroy Charlotte the way he did Atlanta. He's still a player with a very raw offensive game. Kobe... Well, his defense has always been overrated and he has his questionable shot selection. I know Cleveland got Jamison, but he didn't help them do anything because he is a stat guy like Shareef was. Shaq did more to hurt Cleveland than help them. At this point, Shaq is a liability.

The thing is with Kobe is that he can be hot sometimes, but he is struggling more and more to get by his man one on one and is becoming more and more of a jump shooter and you know he will shot himself and his team out of games sometimes. Lebron will still get triple doubles even with his shot off. But he wasn't into this series and I thought it was obvious with every interview he did. That reflects badly on him, but it still doesn't take away that he is the best player in the game.

Edited May 14, 2010 by Hotlanta1981

[Plainview1981]

Don't see what others see but this reinforces my opinion you can't put all your eggs in one basket. James is uber great but you can't put rentals around him and expect immediate results. The pg position is so vital and we had six years to acquire, develop, and play one but chose not to thinking a "superstar" was efficient enough to compensate for one.

We need to put big money in a pg this year or next and the pieces will fall into place. You can see how Rondo when owning his game, just imposes his entire will against the cavs starters.

Mo Williams and Bibby were very similar players around the same age and now you can see a true point guard not a good 3 point shooter is the way go about things.

I didn't think Lebron was into the series mentally and that combined with Boston realizing that Rondo is now their best player is what won Boston the series. If Boston played the Hawks in these playoffs they would have won in 5 games. It would have been a different story back in December though. The big Three is now the big one with the former big three taking turns having great games in support of Rondo.

Edited May 14, 2010 by Hotlanta1981

[Plainview1981]

This isn't the regular season. People who thought this was the regular season are the ones who picked cleveland to own the celtics. This celtics team had lost twice by double digits in the regular season against the cavs (and only won the last game because the cavs had already clinched the top seed). The celtics were clearly saving themselves and their playbook for the playoffs.

The hawks, meanwhile, basically played their playoff rotation for the entire season, and made no adjustments for the playoffs. Not saying that the celtics would beat the hawks, but these celtics are clearly not the same celtics the hawks played before.

And in any case, so what? Is the goal for the hawks to beat the celtics? Would the hawks hang a banner saying "we beat the celtics" if they did? Because if that is the goal, then that is fine. But if the goal is to win a championship, then matchups are irrelevant. The hawks might match up better with the celtics, but if the goal is to win the championship, they'd have to eventually go through Orlando anyways. And unless something major happens, this team will be killed by Orlando every year. Howard is young and is not going anywhere.

The difference between Boston in December and Boston in April is that Rondo has become the best player on the team and it's eased the load of the guys once known as the Big Three. Injuries to the team helped force Rondo to step up. Had Boston reminded healthy all year they might not have been in this position. They might have won more games, but Rondo would probably still be behind on development and Boston would be nearly the same as last season.

[mrhonline]

I think we would all be satisfied if we simply fired Woody.

I won't.

The Bucks' series this year and the Heat series last year revealed the problems with the coach.

The Magic series this year and the Cavs series last year revealed the problems with the roster.

[niremetal]

I won't.

The Bucks' series this year and the Heat series last year revealed the problems with the coach.

The Magic series this year and the Cavs series last year revealed the problems with the roster.

Except no one has, can, or will come up with a feasible way to make our roster competitive with Orlando's. I still dispute the idea that our roster is a "problem" in general instead of just a problem against Orlando.

Against the Cavs last year, three of our starters were injured (people keep forgetting JJ's foot injury because, unlike LeBron, he doesn't play up every nagging injury that he tries to play through to the media). I think we could beat them if we stay healthy and have a better coach.

Edited May 14, 2010 by niremetal

[NJHAWK]

Boston is healthy now especially Garnett. If we played them balling like we did vs Orlando or even vs the Bucks we would have got beat. You have to bring your best ball to the playoffs and the Hawks didnt.

Edited May 14, 2010 by NJHAWK

[mrhonline]

Except no one has, can, or will come up with a feasible way to make our roster competitive with Orlando's.

I have. You have to trade Josh Smith in an effort to reconstruct the team around JJ/Horford/Center. The other option, which I openly prefer, is to trade JJ in an effort to achieve a long-term success around Guard/Smith/Horford.

Don't forget that this offseason will likely create at least one other team that the Hawks will have to permanently deal with in the EC.

Against the Cavs last year, three of our starters were injured

Excluding the playoffs, the Hawks have gone 3-8 against the Cavs since Horford arrived.

[niremetal]

I have. You have to trade Josh Smith in an effort to reconstruct the team around JJ/Horford/Center. The other option, which I openly prefer, is to trade JJ in an effort to achieve a long-term success around Guard/Smith/Horford.

You think we can get past the Magic by trading JJ without seriously weakening ourselves against most other teams in the league? Ok...

I guess I should say "a feasible way to compete with past Orlando that would not leave us exposed to a serious dropoff during the regular season and against non-Orlando teams in the playoffs." JJ sucks against the Magic. He isn't nearly as bad against other playoff teams.

Don't forget that this offseason will likely create at least one other team that the Hawks will have to permanently deal with in the EC.

And also remove one. The Cavs minus LeBron are back in lotteryville.

Excluding the playoffs, the Hawks have gone 3-8 against the Cavs since Horford arrived.

All with who as head coach? Most of those games were winnable, and I think would have been won without the Bald One.

That's the problem with these arguments. There's no way to prove a negative. We won't know how much better (if at all) this team is under a new coach until there is a new coach.

Edited May 14, 2010 by niremetal

[mrhonline]

That's the problem with these arguments. There's no way to prove a negative. We won't know how much better (if at all) this team is under a new coach until there is a new coach.

And yet you pretend the exact same thing couldn't be said of a team constructed without Joe Johnson on a ridiculous contract well past his prime.

Yours is a plan of perpetual mediocrity. At least have the courage to admit it.

For me, I have no problem with taking a step back for a year or two (the second year will likely be a lockout year anyway) for the greater prize.

[DJlaysitup]

...The Cavs minus LeBron are back in lotteryville...

I would tend to agree with that. I don't think it's true for us if we lose JJ though. Even if we lose JJ without compensation I still think we are a playoff team (not top 4 but still a playoff team).

[niremetal]

Yours is a plan of perpetual mediocrity. At least have the courage to admit it.

What's your problem? I didn't attack you in my post at all. I said you can't prove a negative, which is a signal that no one knows what would happen without Woody - including you and me (or did you just choose to ignore the "if at all" in my post?). Courage? I genuinely think that with a better coach, this team can contend, and I'm not alone in that view. If you disagree, fine. But wtf is with that?

Edited May 14, 2010 by niremetal

[jhay610]

What's your problem? I didn't attack you in my post at all. I said you can't prove a negative, which is a signal that no one knows what would happen without Woody - including you and me (or did you just choose to ignore the "if at all" in my post?). Courage? I genuinely think that with a better coach, this team can contend, and I'm not alone in that view. If you disagree, fine. But wtf is with that?

Am I the only one to notice mrh has gotten a bit testy since the Hawks got b-smacked out of the playoffs? Not his usual amiable self...