We WILL Regret It

[Ruckus]

http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/68171/20100715/knicks_have_preliminary_s&t_talks_on_shaq/

I truly believe we will regret it if we trade Marvin for Shaq (straight up). He isn't great at anything but it decent at many things. To rely on Shaq just for the 10 games a year that we have to play Orlando and LA - and give away are starting small forward to do it - is an iffy and desperate move at best. Marvin is the guy we rely on to guard Pierce, Kobe, Lebron, ect. and in my estimation he does a noble job. This can't be overlooked especially when our team has a small front court and PGs that get circles ran around them. Not saying we should keep him, just that we should get someone more serviceable than Shaq.

And for those of you who think the only reason we haven't signed/traded for Shaq is because he wants to go to a contender....think again. The Knicks are arguably the worst team in the league. So it must be something else, right? Management, grudge, money?

[coachx]

And for those of you who think the only reason we haven't signed/traded for Shaq is because he wants to go to a contender....think again. The Knicks are arguably the worst team in the league. So it must be something else, right? Management, grudge, money?

The Knicks system is a very bad one for a 38 year old man weighing 320 pounds.

Below is a quote from your link that seems like common sense.

A Knicks source said, "I don't think it would work with us on all kinds of levels."

Now that quote seems like common sense and I think Rick Sund knows it. Shaq's agent is just trying to garner pressure on the Hawks to do that sign and trade by talking about the Knicks. In my opinion we should play hard ball with him or cut off all communication with Shaq to put the pressure where it belongs.

I agree that trading Marvin for Shaq.........without replacing Marvin with a solid veteran wing would be problematic.

However, I have to wonder if a veteran LLE wing like Damien Wilkens, combined with Shaq would not make the Hawks a better team.

Edited July 15, 2010 by coachx

[Ruckus]

I agree completely. I like Wilkens (and not only because I went to HS with him). I also heard Matt Barnes name get thrown around. That might be a decent pickup as well. But Mo Evans as a starter scares me.....

[Admin]

I agree completely. I like Wilkens (and not only because I went to HS with him). I also heard Matt Barnes name get thrown around. That might be a decent pickup as well. But Mo Evans as a starter scares me.....

I'd be thrilled with Matt Barnes, less so with Damien, but I'd still like to sign him. For some reason it doesn't seem like he'll ever get the chance to play for Atlanta though. The only way I do the Shaq for Marvin swap is if I've got a contract waiting for Barnes signature and I might make the Cavs give me Moon as well.

[Duzit]

No we wont.

What has marvin shown in the years since we've had him that mo evans cannot do? Not to say I'm for Evans starting, but seriously what's the difference between the two?

There's maybe a handful (if that) of games that we can all say that, "Marvin won that game for us." As a #2 pick you need to step your game up. As a #2 pick you should be a force in the league.

Marvin gets handled by any other 3 guard he faces. Never have you seen Marvin lock down on somebody defensively, rattle another player's game, or just dominate. He's a subpar player and a waste of a #2 draft pick.

Like his attitude all you want, but he's not a star player. Therefore he's replaceable.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

We may regret it if we DON'T do it. Horford has asked for help on the frontline. Marvin proved himself to be very expendable last year, with the way he inconsistently shot open jumpers ( 36% FG on shots from 16 - 23 feet . . . his favorite place to shoot ). When he should've been doing the other little things to help enhance his game, he didn't do it.

People that are waiting on Marvin to become a star, should simply give that up at that point. Maybe his blood doesn't pump Gatorade . . because it just may not be in him. Diesel has said it from Day 1. All of us may simply have to admit that he was right.

Marvin is solid defensively, no doubt. And we would need to pick up another perimeter defender to at least play spot minutes at the 3. But both JJ and Mo can play SG and SF. If need be, we simply increase JJ's minutes at the 3, and play Crawford ( both Jamal and Jordan ) at the 2.

I like Marvin. I think he's been unfairly been beaten to death over the past 5 years for not living up to his #2 selection. But the fact is that Marvin is simply a complimentary player. Taking a chance on Shaq is about the best gamble we can take right now. And if it means trading Marvin to get him, I personally don't have a huge problem with that, even though I'd rather keep Marvin here but also add Shaq.

At some point in time, we're going to have to stop talking about "potential" and "upside" around here. We are not a 30 win team anymore. We are a top 10 team in the league. And if we can move players to possibly upgrade the team, then that's what we need to do. The teams ahead of us have no problem trading away "potential" to upgrade the team.

[Ruckus]

We no doubt should trade Marvin. Just not for Shaq.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

We no doubt should trade Marvin. Just not for Shaq.

Why not? Who are you going to trade Marvin for? Or a better question, who wants Marvin bad enough, that they'll trade you someone good for him?

[Ruckus]

Is Shaq still good??? just sayin

[MaceCase]

Is Shaq still good??? just sayin

No.

[NineOhTheRino]

Why not? Who are you going to trade Marvin for? Or a better question, who wants Marvin bad enough, that they'll trade you someone good for him?

Hawks fans have to remember that Chris Grant is 95% of why the Cavs want Marv. So lets not act like Marv has any real trade value with other GM. Still I would never give away Marvin's potential (although dwindling) for an aging off/on player like Shaq.

[Randy]

Sometimes a change of address makes a big difference. Look a Diaw. Took off when he left ATL for PHX.

[Wretch]

It's not so much about what Marvin has proven or what Marvin will do for me...

If we weren't so fond of piddling around, we could sign a FA like Shaq and not have to trade ANYTHING for him. So really, this is essentially a trade of our starting SF...for nothing. Love him or hate him, it's retarded just to give talent away. How exactly is this building upon what we had last year? I don't think dumping him is going to be addition by subtraction. Combined with dumping Shellhead (for a guy we also want to dump) and Chill...it means we wasted 3 or 4 years piddling around.

Seriously...? We suffer through an under-appreciated, over-matched, 2nd round team in the 90's...only to deal away draft picks at the turn of the century (for nothing), highlighted by having one pick in possibly the wost draft in the history of the NBA, then we rebuild through the draft, suffering through stomach turning 13 and 26 win seasons, only to throw away those draft picks with little return. The net result is a good but not great team that gets us into the playoffs every year, but does not net us a top level talent in the draft that can put us over or even close to it.

Dump him or keep him, it's all the same - we don't really improve the team. We do lose an asset though by dumping him and we do take a step back. This is just a silly, mediocre, pointless off season IMHO. But for this franchise? A fitting follow up on record setting playoff futility.

[Dejay]

We may regret it if we DON'T do it. Horford has asked for help on the frontline. Marvin proved himself to be very expendable last year, with the way he inconsistently shot open jumpers ( 36% FG on shots from 16 - 23 feet . . . his favorite place to shoot ). When he should've been doing the other little things to help enhance his game, he didn't do it.

People that are waiting on Marvin to become a star, should simply give that up at that point. Maybe his blood doesn't pump Gatorade . . because it just may not be in him. Diesel has said it from Day 1. All of us may simply have to admit that he was right.

Marvin is solid defensively, no doubt. And we would need to pick up another perimeter defender to at least play spot minutes at the 3. But both JJ and Mo can play SG and SF. If need be, we simply increase JJ's minutes at the 3, and play Crawford ( both Jamal and Jordan ) at the 2.

I like Marvin. I think he's been unfairly been beaten to death over the past 5 years for not living up to his #2 selection. But the fact is that Marvin is simply a complimentary player. Taking a chance on Shaq is about the best gamble we can take right now. And if it means trading Marvin to get him, I personally don't have a huge problem with that, even though I'd rather keep Marvin here but also add Shaq.

At some point in time, we're going to have to stop talking about "potential" and "upside" around here. We are not a 30 win team anymore. We are a top 10 team in the league. And if we can move players to possibly upgrade the team, then that's what we need to do. The teams ahead of us have no problem trading away "potential" to upgrade the team.

Count me in with North and Diesel. I've been screaming Chris Paul's name on this board for the last five years and my lungs are now begging for relief. Teams don't spend #2 picks on complimentary, go-along-to-get-along guys; that's what the second-round, summer leagues, the NBDL, and the LLE is around for. Those type of picks are spent on guys who have the ability to turn an entire franchise around. It's safe to say that Marvin doesn't have the goods to do that.

My frustration with Marvin's performance (or lack thereof) is that he's never done anything well enough to warrant the #2 pick being spent on him in the first place. Sure he defends slightly better than average but what else does he do out there? And nope, I don't want to hear about about his 'upside' and 'potential' either; it didn't take Kevin Durant this long to make an impact. That's the kind of player I was expecting to get from a pick that high; he couldn't lace Durant's shoes or get his coffee right now.

At this point in his career, opposing teams are supposed to gameplan against him hanging All-Star numbers on them and not just set themselves on doubling up on JJ and Crawford all night long. We have more confidence in Smith doing damage in a ballgame than Marvin and that's just not supposed to happen, no matter how jacked up Woody's coaching was.

I say trade him. This team always plays the safe route when they're winning, only to go into full-panic mode when the status quo is threatened (see Rider, J.R.). We all painfully know that the 'core' as currently constructed, isn't nearly enough to get by Orlando, Boston, and Team Voltron; hell, they'll be pressed to beat the Bulls and Bucks right now. It's time to clear the stale air from the BK error and moving Childress was a start. Finish the job, Sund...

[AHF]

My frustration with Marvin's performance (or lack thereof) is that he's never done anything well enough to warrant the #2 pick being spent on him in the first place.

I share some of that but at a certain point you have to let it go as a sunk cost. If there are better options available to us, then make the move (just like with every other player on the roster). If not, then stick with Marvin. I don't think you are saying to make a change for the sake of clearing out BK's draft mistakes but if you are then I disagree. Make a move for the sake of improving your team. The fact that Marvin will never live up to his initial expectations is just no longer relevant to our current planning.

[Jody23]

We may regret it if we DON'T do it. Horford has asked for help on the frontline. Marvin proved himself to be very expendable last year, with the way he inconsistently shot open jumpers ( 36% FG on shots from 16 - 23 feet . . . his favorite place to shoot ). When he should've been doing the other little things to help enhance his game, he didn't do it.

People that are waiting on Marvin to become a star, should simply give that up at that point. Maybe his blood doesn't pump Gatorade . . because it just may not be in him. Diesel has said it from Day 1. All of us may simply have to admit that he was right.

Marvin is solid defensively, no doubt. And we would need to pick up another perimeter defender to at least play spot minutes at the 3. But both JJ and Mo can play SG and SF. If need be, we simply increase JJ's minutes at the 3, and play Crawford ( both Jamal and Jordan ) at the 2.

I like Marvin. I think he's been unfairly been beaten to death over the past 5 years for not living up to his #2 selection. But the fact is that Marvin is simply a complimentary player. Taking a chance on Shaq is about the best gamble we can take right now. And if it means trading Marvin to get him, I personally don't have a huge problem with that, even though I'd rather keep Marvin here but also add Shaq.

At some point in time, we're going to have to stop talking about "potential" and "upside" around here. We are not a 30 win team anymore. We are a top 10 team in the league. And if we can move players to possibly upgrade the team, then that's what we need to do. The teams ahead of us have no problem trading away "potential" to upgrade the team.

+1

Well said sir. Refusing to listen to Horford's comments about getting help could result in dire consequences.

[Crank]

How are we gonna regret trading Marvin when we are already regretting SIGNING Marvin to begin with ? We are gonna sit on this team for the next few years til no one is worth squat and then sale everyone at ten cents on the dollar .We should be thinking like a championship organization instead everyone is frozen in fear so they choose to stay and bath in the mediocrity.

[Dejay]

I share some of that but at a certain point you have to let it go as a sunk cost. If there are better options available to us, then make the move (just like with every other player on the roster). If not, then stick with Marvin. I don't think you are saying to make a change for the sake of clearing out BK's draft mistakes but if you are then I disagree. Make a move for the sake of improving your team. The fact that Marvin will never live up to his initial expectations is just no longer relevant to our current planning.

I don't want to make the move just for the sake of doing it; I want the team to be better off by trading him. And as far as letting it go, when I see what Deron and CP3 has done in their careers and compare it to what Marvin hasn't done, its real hard to do. Chris Paul almost single-handedly saved pro basketball in New Orleans; Lord only knows what he could've done here, especially if Mike 'I don't play rookies, even if they're better than the guys already on the team' Woodson wasn't running the show....

[TheNorthCydeRises]

And if I were Marvin, I don't know if I wouldn't be hoping to get traded to a team like Cleveland. At least there, he'll know that he's going to be getting the ball and a better chance to prove himself as a player.

[Joker]

Trading Marvin for Shaq is a nay. I'll pass. north, Shaq best offer is ours and there is no other option. He knows it but is trying to use leverage but Cleveland is killing it by wanted a core player and not Bibby. Shaq will sign for the MLE at the end of the day.