Hawks still considering signing Shaq

[Buzzard]

CP3 contract is worth 10 million more than Smith and Okafor's is albatross. Smith is actually on an excellent deal compared to his performance. Okafor on video looks like a better Zaza but three times the price. Ugh. Now if we do this deal, we will be over the tax and Horford will push us way over as well. But CP3 should give us 95-100% ticket sales which compensates for that. That should pay for Shaq and Shaq should put us over completely with the tickets buyers.

Talking about from a longterm investment. Paul has only three years left and that is if he picks up his player option. If not only two years left @ 14.7 million.

[Sothron]

Hawks beat writer Sekou Smith quotes one Hawks official as saying, "The Shaq situation is not a dead subject for us. We are still exploring the possibilities."

Shaq only wants to play for a contender and is looking for approximately $8 million per season, though he'll likely have to accept much less. The Hawks are one of the few teams to have consistently mulled the idea of signing the veteran center.

I wonder if the ASG are trying to get Paul and see how that works out and then see if Shaq would take less money to sign with a team that would have Paul, Joe Johnson and either Josh Smith or Horford?

Er why did I get negatives for posting legitimate Hawks news from a trusted source? Are we negging people just for the heck of it now?

[Buzzard]

The neggin ppl for no reason needs to end.

I dont give out negatives. I just ignore the ones I consider negative. I could understand why someone would though. The title is about us signing Shaq but somehow it has turned into another trade Smoove for CP3 thread. Seems like almost every thread is turning into that IMO.

[Buzzard]

Er why did I get negatives for posting legitimate Hawks news from a trusted source? Are we negging people just for the heck of it now?

Did not do it but your source did not say anything about CP3. Where did you pull that conjecture up? Source?

[KB21]

PER 36 MINUTES

SHAQ: 18.5 ppg - 10.3 rebs - 2.3 asst - 1.8 blks - 57% FG

HORFORD: 14.5 ppg - 10.1 rebs - 2.4 asst - 1.2 blks - 55% FG

That's why.

Win Shares:

SHAQ: 3.1

HORFORD: 10.9

WARP:

HORFORD: 10.9

SHAQ: 3.6

Or, better yet:

Zaza Pachulia: 2.7 win shares; 1.2 WARP

So basically, the argument here is to overpay for a player, ultimately paying the luxury tax for that player, when said player is BARELY better than Zaza Pachulia at generating wins for a team.

Edited July 25, 2010 by KB21

[TheNorthCydeRises]

But Shaq will never play 36 mins for the Hawks. You are comparing someone with superior ball usage in Shaq to a PnR PF playing C in Horford with the lowest usage of any all star last season by a mile.

And why is Horford simply a Pick and Roll PF? We all know that Al's back to the basket game is weak. He can be a very good spot up shooter from midrange though, which should come more to him, if Drew's offensive plan proves to be successful. We definitely need to up his usage. But there's a reason why Shaq's usage is high. His usage is high because he's SUCCESSFUL in the low post.

But having said that, usage usually only affects the chances you have to score and maybe pass the basketball. It doesn't affect things like rebounding, and your FG%, and your ability to block shots.

The fact is that we'd have BOTH of these guys on the team. And you could play BOTH of these guys together at the same time. How good could Horford be, if he's able to play some time at PF, with a space eater like Shaq anchoring the middle? This isn't a limited offensive player like Anderson Varejao we're talking about playing alongside Shaq. Or a guy that feels he needs to touch the ball on every possession like Amare. This is Al Horford . . a guy who has the best midrange jumper on the team when he's open. But he's also a guy that is best when he doesn't have to create his own offense down on the block.

Shaq isn't replacing Horford. He's complimenting Horford and adding much needed depth to the entire frontline. Instead of a guy like Zaza, who shoots in the high 40% FG, you're adding Shaq, who shoots in the high 50% FG.

Why people wouldn't want that on this team, is beyond me. The ONLY thing people can bring up, is Shaq's "divaness" and his ability to play a full season. But you fail when they try to diss his basketball playing ability. Basketball wise, this dude can still play the game.

[Sothron]

Did not do it but your source did not say anything about CP3. Where did you pull that conjecture up? Source?

That was my guessing which is why I didn't put in bold. The news article is legit from Sekou saying the Hawks are still considering signing Shaq. I'm personally wondering if they are waiting to see if a trade goes through first or if they want to wait him out for lesser money. If we did get Paul then wouldShaq would take less money and accept a bench role?

There was nothing in my post to deserve a negative.

[Buzzard]

That was my guessing which is why I didn't put in bold. The news article is legit from Sekou saying the Hawks are still considering signing Shaq. I'm personally wondering if they are waiting to see if a trade goes through first or if they want to wait him out for lesser money. If we did get Paul then wouldShaq would take less money and accept a bench role?

There was nothing in my post to deserve a negative.

I guess who ever did it probably thinks the title should be more in line with something like this:

Shaq plus CP3 a possibility? Or just a *&# dream?

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Win Shares:

SHAQ: 3.1

HORFORD: 10.9

WARP:

HORFORD: 10.9

SHAQ: 3.6

You're still acting like I'm approaching this like this is a competition between Horford and Shaq. Shaq adds DEPTH to the Hawks if we get him. And Shaq brings two things to the table that Al is weak at. 1) low post offense down on the blocks in the half court set . . and 2) the ability to defend bigger centers, especially at the rim.

Why wouldn't you want to add that to this team, to compliment both Horford and Smith? Why would you want to keep tossing out Zaza and Joe Smith and Jason Collins to compliment Horford and Smith.

That's what I want to know?

[TheNorthCydeRises]

KB . . you keep trying to act like Shaq is complete garbage. I think the real thing is that you just flat out don't like the dude, and don't want to see him here.

[Buzzard]

You're still acting like I'm approaching this like this is a competition between Horford and Shaq. Shaq adds DEPTH to the Hawks if we get him. And Shaq brings two things to the table that Al is weak at. 1) low post offense down on the blocks in the half court set . . and 2) the ability to defend bigger centers, especially at the rim.

Why wouldn't you want to add that to this team, to compliment both Horford and Smith? Why would you want to keep tossing out Zaza and Joe Smith and Jason Collins to compliment Horford and Smith.

That's what I want to know?

Because our owners do not want to pay the luxury tax is my guess. Is this right KB?

[KB21]

You're still acting like I'm approaching this like this is a competition between Horford and Shaq. Shaq adds DEPTH to the Hawks if we get him. And Shaq brings two things to the table that Al is weak at. 1) low post offense down on the blocks in the half court set . . and 2) the ability to defend bigger centers, especially at the rim.

Why wouldn't you want to add that to this team, to compliment both Horford and Smith? Why would you want to keep tossing out Zaza and Joe Smith and Jason Collins to compliment Horford and Smith.

That's what I want to know?

Two reasons:

A. He isn't worth the money he wants, and isn't worth going into the luxury tax threshold because he isn't going to generate wins for the team.

B. He is a locker room cancer that has caused problems everywhere he has been.

Other than that, then he would be fine as a defensive role player that gives a team 15-20 minutes a night OFF THE BENCH at the veteran minimum salary.

I've got no problem with having Zaza as the back up center that allows Al to slide over to power forward for a few minutes. Over the past two years, the Hawks are +5 when Al and Zaza are on the floor together and give up an average of 95 points per 100 possessions with those two on the floor. The Hawks center position has never been in the dire straits fans believe. In fact, the positions that have been getting largely ignored by both the fans and the front office are the perimeter positions, where this team needs defensive help severely.

[Buzzard]

Two reasons:

A. He isn't worth the money he wants, and isn't worth going into the luxury tax threshold because he isn't going to generate wins for the team.

B. He is a locker room cancer that has caused problems everywhere he has been.

Other than that, then he would be fine as a defensive role player that gives a team 15-20 minutes a night OFF THE BENCH at the veteran minimum salary.

I've got no problem with having Zaza as the back up center that allows Al to slide over to power forward for a few minutes. Over the past two years, the Hawks are +5 when Al and Zaza are on the floor together and give up an average of 95 points per 100 possessions with those two on the floor. The Hawks center position has never been in the dire straits fans believe. In fact, the positions that have been getting largely ignored by both the fans and the front office are the perimeter positions, where this team needs defensive help severely.

I think not only would Shaq help both Smoove and Horf when either are at PF, but Shaq, Marvin, and ZaZa would be a big frontline killer as a unit, giving both Smoove and Horf some rest at the end of quarters. Shaq would in essence be able to help replace Collins, Morris, and Joe Smith.

Edited July 25, 2010 by Buzzard

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Two reasons:

A. He isn't worth the money he wants, and isn't worth going into the luxury tax threshold because he isn't going to generate wins for the team.

B. He is a locker room cancer that has caused problems everywhere he has been.

Other than that, then he would be fine as a defensive role player that gives a team 15-20 minutes a night OFF THE BENCH at the veteran minimum salary.

I've got no problem with having Zaza as the back up center that allows Al to slide over to power forward for a few minutes. Over the past two years, the Hawks are +5 when Al and Zaza are on the floor together and give up an average of 95 points per 100 possessions with those two on the floor. The Hawks center position has never been in the dire straits fans believe. In fact, the positions that have been getting largely ignored by both the fans and the front office are the perimeter positions, where this team needs defensive help severely.

So the alternative is to do nothing? Give Zaza more playing time and add Jason Collins and Josh Powell? That's what you want to roll with going into next season?

He's not going to get the money he wants ( although I wouldn't be against overpaying him at that amount, and trading Marvin away ). I'm sure he even knows that by now. But if the MLE is what it takes to bring him here, I'm doing that. When you see how the fans of ATL react to big name players, you'd easily make that money back at the gate and off merchandising.

And he'd definitely come off the bench if he agrees to come here. If he went to Boston or Chicago, he's not going to start ( maybe in Boston, until Perkins comes back, but definitely not in Chicago ). Just about anywhere he goes, he's coming off the bench. So the bench issue is moot, if he comes here.

The Hawks center position has always been in dire straits, since Dikembe left. Horford is a good center, but Zaza is about as poor of a backup center as there is out there. Shoot, we don't even have a legit backup PF. Even if we add a Josh Powell, Marvin would still be a better backup PF than him.

Shaq was a heck of a locker room cancer last year. All that team did, was go 40 - 13 when he was in the lineup and went 2 - 1 vs Orlando when he was in the lineup.

It's a dead issue to me though. Ownership isn't spending more than the Luxury Tax, and Shaq isn't coming to ATL to play for the vet minimum. They are a low risk management group, in a time in which the entire Conference seems to be upgrading every facet of their teams. Staying put simply tells the fans that they are satisfied with reaching the 2nd round and being a top 8 team.

They have a U. of Mississippi mentality in football . . instead of a U. of Alabama mentality.

[Joker]

You're still acting like I'm approaching this like this is a competition between Horford and Shaq. Shaq adds DEPTH to the Hawks if we get him. And Shaq brings two things to the table that Al is weak at. 1) low post offense down on the blocks in the half court set . . and 2) the ability to defend bigger centers, especially at the rim.

Why wouldn't you want to add that to this team, to compliment both Horford and Smith? Why would you want to keep tossing out Zaza and Joe Smith and Jason Collins to compliment Horford and Smith.

That's what I want to know?

But Shaq will not come off the bench, it's not in his ego. Like I said, with CP3 and the center spot up for grabs, I completely agree with everything you wrote. But with Smith/Horford, he will just be a rotational player.

[pimp]

So the alternative is to do nothing? Give Zaza more playing time and add Jason Collins and Josh Powell? That's what you want to roll with going into next season?

He's not going to get the money he wants ( although I wouldn't be against overpaying him at that amount, and trading Marvin away ). I'm sure he even knows that by now. But if the MLE is what it takes to bring him here, I'm doing that. When you see how the fans of ATL react to big name players, you'd easily make that money back at the gate and off merchandising.

And he'd definitely come off the bench if he agrees to come here. If he went to Boston or Chicago, he's not going to start ( maybe in Boston, until Perkins comes back, but definitely not in Chicago ). Just about anywhere he goes, he's coming off the bench. So the bench issue is moot, if he comes here.

The Hawks center position has always been in dire straits, since Dikembe left. Horford is a good center, but Zaza is about as poor of a backup center as there is out there. Shoot, we don't even have a legit backup PF. Even if we add a Josh Powell, Marvin would still be a better backup PF than him.

Shaq was a heck of a locker room cancer last year. All that team did, was go 40 - 13 when he was in the lineup and went 2 - 1 vs Orlando when he was in the lineup.

It's a dead issue to me though. Ownership isn't spending more than the Luxury Tax, and Shaq isn't coming to ATL to play for the vet minimum. They are a low risk management group, in a time in which the entire Conference seems to be upgrading every facet of their teams. Staying put simply tells the fans that they are satisfied with reaching the 2nd round and being a top 8 team.

They have a U. of Mississippi mentality in football . . instead of a U. of Alabama mentality.

+1 i agree with everything you wrote.

Edited July 25, 2010 by pimp

[KB21]

So the alternative is to do nothing? Give Zaza more playing time and add Jason Collins and Josh Powell? That's what you want to roll with going into next season?

He's not going to get the money he wants ( although I wouldn't be against overpaying him at that amount, and trading Marvin away ). I'm sure he even knows that by now. But if the MLE is what it takes to bring him here, I'm doing that. When you see how the fans of ATL react to big name players, you'd easily make that money back at the gate and off merchandising.

And he'd definitely come off the bench if he agrees to come here. If he went to Boston or Chicago, he's not going to start ( maybe in Boston, until Perkins comes back, but definitely not in Chicago ). Just about anywhere he goes, he's coming off the bench. So the bench issue is moot, if he comes here.

The Hawks center position has always been in dire straits, since Dikembe left. Horford is a good center, but Zaza is about as poor of a backup center as there is out there. Shoot, we don't even have a legit backup PF. Even if we add a Josh Powell, Marvin would still be a better backup PF than him.

Shaq was a heck of a locker room cancer last year. All that team did, was go 40 - 13 when he was in the lineup and went 2 - 1 vs Orlando when he was in the lineup.

It's a dead issue to me though. Ownership isn't spending more than the Luxury Tax, and Shaq isn't coming to ATL to play for the vet minimum. They are a low risk management group, in a time in which the entire Conference seems to be upgrading every facet of their teams. Staying put simply tells the fans that they are satisfied with reaching the 2nd round and being a top 8 team.

They have a U. of Mississippi mentality in football . . instead of a U. of Alabama mentality.

The alternative would have been to address what really needed to be addressed and get this team some players on the perimeter that can defend. The Hawks already have a strong interior defense, a strong starting center, and a solid back up center. They need to improve their perimeter defense and are currently putting a lot of hope on Jeff Teague and Jordan Crawford being the improvements they need.

[JJFAN4LF]

It was clear Al was better at the PF position and was more effective. He was a better player when Zaza was at the Center spot and Al was in the PF spot. Switch Zaza with Shaq, Horford becomes even better at the PF position. Shaq is the difference between the most horrible off-season in years to one of the best off-season in years for the Hawks.

[JTB]

That was my guessing which is why I didn't put in bold. The news article is legit from Sekou saying the Hawks are still considering signing Shaq. I'm personally wondering if they are waiting to see if a trade goes through first or if they want to wait him out for lesser money. If we did get Paul then wouldShaq would take less money and accept a bench role?

There was nothing in my post to deserve a negative.

i agree with you but dont sweat it. alot of clowns on this board give out negatives simply because they dont like your opinion but it's cool.

[Sothron]

i agree with you but dont sweat it. alot of clowns on this board give out negatives simply because they dont like your opinion but it's cool.

Thanks, I returned the favor. :conversation: