Diesel has an answser for the Hawks C woes.....

[Diesel]

Timofey Mozgov...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bL9NNhibWks

The Knicks are trying to clear up all the cap space it can to go after Melo and Paul in the Summer. They need expirings. We send Mo/Etan for Mozgov...

He's 7'1 250...

Watch the video... He has lots of potential.

Timofey Mozgov...

he Knicks are trying to clear up all the cap space it can to go after Melo and Paul in the Summer. They need expirings. We send Mo/Etan for Mozgov...

He's 7'1 250...

Watch the video... He has lots of potential.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jI8LSEMlTQ0&feature=related

It would be nice to have a shotblocker on the roster next to Horf!!

[WakaFlocka]

And before anyone asks... Yes, this is indeed the dude that got brutally tea-bagged by Blake Griffin.

[niremetal]

We have a 24 year old 2-time All-Star at center. Tell me again how we have C woes?

[y2kenta]

We have a 24 year old 2-time All-Star at center. Tell me again how we have C woes?

Uhhh....maybe because Horford is naturally a PF and is taking beatings at C??? I could be just talking out da side of my neck...Or maybe Horford himself, his dad, and our coach feel that way...You tell me.

[frosgrim]

We have a 24 year old 2-time All-Star at center. Tell me again how we have C woes?

Horford doesn't want to play center any more. He knows its hurting his career and it is time to move him to PF. Lastly, he gets worn down by playing big centers. If we have to play Orlando in the playoffs, having something more than a stiff (Twin) to put on Howard will be a huge upgrade for us.

[thecampster]

Horford doesn't want to play center any more. He knows its hurting his career and it is time to move him to PF. Lastly, he gets worn down by playing big centers. If we have to play Orlando in the playoffs, having something more than a stiff (Twin) to put on Howard will be a huge upgrade for us.

FYI...Marvin and filler (to make up his trade bonus) works for Varejeo.

http://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/5843923

There are better options than the one presented.

Give the Cavs a future first and Marvin, serviceable big in Etan Thomas to finish their season and you could probably get Varejeo.

Teague/Bibby

JJ/Crawford

Smith/Wilkens

Horford/Pachulia

Varejeo/Collins

would be very formidable in May.

Edited February 11, 2011 by thecampster

[niremetal]

Uhhh....maybe because Horford is naturally a PF and is taking beatings at C??? I could be just talking out da side of my neck...Or maybe Horford himself, his dad, and our coach feel that way...You tell me.

He's not a natural PF. If he were playing in the era that Tito Horford played, he'd be a natural PF. Today, he's best suited to be a C. I'll re-post what I said on Schultz's blog about this:

In Tito’s day, Al would have been a PF. In the modern NBA, Al’s a center. We are no longer in the era of 7-foot centers. There is not a single 7-foot center who was even a contender for the All-Star team this year. Not one. Yao is done*, Shaq’s days as a starter [at least full-time] are over, and David Robinson’s been out of the league for 8 years. The best centers in the NBA are 6′11 (Howard, Duncan, Nene, Noah) or 6′10 (Horford, Perkins). Guys like Amare, Jefferson, and Lee who would never have played PF 20 years ago spend most of their time at center today, and put in All-Star level work.

The only 7 footers worth a damn are Brook Lopez (averages 5.6 rpg), Andrew Bynum (can’t stay healthy), and Andrew Bogut [shaky offensive player who can’t stay healthy]. That’s it. And Horford is a better center than any of them.

I’m sure Josh would love to spend most of his time at SF, but that’s not what his skills are best suited for. If he (and his dad) talked in the media about wanting to be moved to SF full-time, he’d get laughed at. Don’t know why we aren’t doing the same for Al.

(* Of course, I realize that fans voted Yao in despite the fact that he played a grand total of 91 minutes. But come on...)

Kelly Dwyer, who I normally can't stand, actually had quite a sensible article about Horford and the "need" (or lack thereof) to move him to his "natural" (or not) position at center. But even he gave Horford too much credit by talking about how he dominated opposing PFs when he has been allowed to play that position. The problem is that Al's minutes at PF have come mostly in the games where we go with the “big lineup” (paired with Collins) or when the other team’s starting center is off the floor (paired with Zaza). We haven’t trotted him out at PF for extended minutes against Nowitzki, Bosh, Brand (who is back to being a top 8 PF in the league, IMHO, once you factor in his defense), Boozer, Aldridge, or Scola.

When we went with the big lineup against the Clips the first time we played them, Griffin frankly torched Al. Al did better and Griffin did worse when we went with our boring old starting 5 against them last week. Similarly, Horford struggled against Garnett when we used the big lineup against the Celtics back in Dec.

I agree that it’s probably better for Al’s long-term health to play primarily at PF. But he’ll lose the key edge in explosiveness and athleticism (which matter at C today a lot more than they used to) if he makes that move. And frankly, the line between Cs and PFs in the modern NBA has become blurred – off the top of my head, Houston, SA, Bos, and Det have starting PFs taller than their starting centers. So whatever height disadvantage he has wouldn’t always be alleviated by moving him to PF.

Maybe we'll one day reenter a world where 7-foot centers are the norm and being 6'10 puts a center at a severe disadvantage. But it won't be this year, and it won't be next. The game moves too fast and has changed too much for height to be the decisive factor in whether someone is a "natural" center. Right now, Al is a top 3 in the NBA at his position - I'd actually say he's top 2. I don't think anyone seriously believes the same would be true if we moved him to PF. Why that isn't enough to convince people that C is where he belongs - his frustration with having to bang guys bigger than him notwithstanding - is beyond me.

Edited February 11, 2011 by niremetal

[coachx]

Even though Howard is 6'11'' (1 inch taller then Horford) his standing reach is 9'3.5'' compared to Horford's 8'11'' and Smoove's 8'10.5''.

Who cares if a guy is 1 inch taller......its standing reach that matters....and Horford's standing reach is very short for a "center." Both Noah and Horford get away with it b/c of their energy and how "bouncy" they play but having to out work a bigger man in the paint every night will wear any man down. Why do you think Tim Duncan wanted to be a PF and not a C even after David Robinson retired ?

You also have 7 foot PFs who fill minutes at center like Gasol, Garnet, and Duncan. What do they have in common ? They all have RINGS !

Size can cover up so many thing in the NBA and especially in the playoffs.

Lets name the starting centers who are smaller then Al Horford ? Well, I can't think of any.

I'm not saying we need another starter at center but an upgrade to ZaZa and Collins is a must so Al can split time between PF / C when the matchup calls for it.

A guy like Haywood, with his 9'5'', standing reach would really hope this team for about 23 minutes a night.

Blake Griffin 8' 9"

Paul Millsap 8' 9.5"

Tyler Hansborogh 8' 10"

Lebron James 8' 10.25"

Josh Smith 8' 10.5"

Drew Gooden 8' 10.5"

Brandon Bass 8' 10.5"

Ronnie Turiaf 8' 10.5"

Chris Humphries 8' 10.5"

David Lee 8' 10.5"

Joakim Noah 8' 10.5"

Udonis Haslem 8' 11"

Jason Maxiell 8' 11"

Michael Beasley 8' 11"

Al Horford 8' 11"

Rudy Gay 8' 11.2" (crazy)

Chris Wilcox 8' 11.5"

Trevor Ariza 8' 11.5" (crazy)

Hakim Warrick 9' 0"

Tyrus Thomas 9' 0"

Amare Stoudemire 9' 0.5"

Carlos Boozer 9' 0.5"

David West 9' 0.5"

Aaron Gray 9' 0.5" (7 footer)

Nene Hilario 9' 1"

Chris Bosh 9' 1"

Charlie Villanueva 9' 1"

Ike Diogu 9' 1"

Kevin Lyde 9' 1.5" (from the RMR!)

Jason Collins 9' 2"

Tyson Chandler 9' 2"

Al Jefferson 9' 2"

Marcin Gortat 9' 2"

Elton Brand 9' 2"

Andrea Bargnani 9' 2"

LaMarcus Aldridge 9' 2"

Kevin Durrant 9' 2" (insane)

Chris Kaman 9' 2.5"

Emeka Okafor 9' 2.5"

Channing frye 9' 2.5"

Andrew Bogut 9' 2.5"

Eddy Curry 9' 3"

Darko Milicic 9' 3.5"

Dwight Howard 9' 3.5"

Curtis Borchardt 9' 4"

Greg Oden 9' 4"

Krylyo Fesonko 9' 4"

Hasheem Thabeet 9' 5"

DeSagana Diop 9' 5"

Brook Lopez 9' 5"Shaquille O'neal 9' 5"

Brendan Haywood 9' 5.5"

Edited February 11, 2011 by coachx

[Admin]

FYI...Marvin and filler (to make up his trade bonus) works for Varejeo.

http://basketball.re...d_trade/5843923

There are better options than the one presented.

Give the Cavs a future first and Marvin, serviceable big in Etan Thomas to finish their season and you could probably get Varejeo.

Teague/Bibby

JJ/Crawford

Smith/Wilkens

Horford/Pachulia

Varejeo/Collins

would be very formidable in May.

Considering that Varejao is done for the season I don't see him helping us too much and now that we're trading Marvin in the deal we're probably a borderline playoff team so even if Varejao could somehow play come playoff time we might not be in the playoffs anyway.

[JRid]

Where do I sign the petition to bring this guy in. I realize these videos are just highlights, but he has got to be a big improvement over Zaza and Collins. How old is he and what is the real chance we could get him? Does anybody know if the Knicks would actually let him go?

[Admin]

Where do I sign the petition to bring this guy in. I realize these videos are just highlights, but he has got to be a big improvement over Zaza and Collins. How old is he and what is the real chance we could get him? Does anybody know if the Knicks would actually let him go?

This could actually be a good player to acquire as he's coming off the bench in NY and putting up decent #'s, but he's young (24) and he's signed to a decent contract ($3.5 million this year and signed through 2014 if his option is picked up) so they might not be looking to move him.

Edit - just checked and it appears that they've been using him as a starter off and on now and he's really putting up good #'s so I seriously doubt they'll be looking to trade him.

[Diesel]

And before anyone asks... Yes, this is indeed the dude that got brutally tea-bagged by Blake Griffin.

That doesn't matter. Griffin has tea bag his share of people. This guy is young, big, fluid, and has a lot of potential. He has great timing on his shot blocking. The fact that we might be able to get him for Mo and Etan's expirings would be a great move for our team.

[sasuke]

NY is looking to improve their frontcourt, not to make it worst. Not happening.

I still think Haywood is reachable.

[WakaFlocka]

That doesn't matter. Griffin has tea bag his share of people. This guy is young, big, fluid, and has a lot of potential. He has great timing on his shot blocking. The fact that we might be able to get him for Mo and Etan's expirings would be a great move for our team.

I didn't say it made a difference, just wanted to throw that out there because that's the only way most people know of Mozgov.

He's absolutely an upgrade over any of the Cs we have on the Hawks after Horford. I highly doubt the Knicks are going to let this go guy for nothing, though, as they know Amar'e can't bang in the post forever.

[99PROBL3MS]

Brendan Haywood would be a very good fit off of the bench. I really had hoped we would get in to the Tyson Chandler sweepstakes but that is water under the bridge. If they signed Shaq, that could have been a stop-gap until we found a more plausible option. Collins and Zaza have to be the least productive set of bench bigs in the entire NBA.

[Jody23]

Unless you surround Horford with quality big men like the Pistons did with Ben Wallace (Rasheed, Okur, Campbell, etc...), the Hawks will not contend for a title with him at center. For example, if you put Horford in place of Perkins on the Celtics, their still formidable because, overall, they've still got quality size. On the current Hawks team, it's not going to work if we're talking about being a title contender. The days of the big dominating centers maybe gone, but the game is still won or lost in the paint, especially come playoff time. Like Kobe said a couple of weeks ago, fast breaks don't win titles. If they did, Pheonix would have a bunch of them. That said, Horford's clearly a power forward and he's just as much a power forward in today's NBA as he would have been in times past. The Hawks need to wise up and maximize Horford's and the teams ability before it's too late.

[tbhawksfan]

That doesn't matter. Griffin has tea bag his share of people. This guy is young, big, fluid, and has a lot of potential. He has great timing on his shot blocking. The fact that we might be able to get him for Mo and Etan's expirings would be a great move for our team.

A fact isn't a might...

love the deal though

[Joker]

Unless you surround Horford with quality big men like the Pistons did with Ben Wallace (Rasheed, Okur, Campbell, etc...), the Hawks will not contend for a title with him at center. For example, if you put Horford in place of Perkins on the Celtics, their still formidable because, overall, they've still got quality size. On the current Hawks team, it's not going to work if we're talking about being a title contender. The days of the big dominating centers maybe gone, but the game is still won or lost in the paint, especially come playoff time. Like Kobe said a couple of weeks ago, fast breaks don't win titles. If they did, Pheonix would have a bunch of them. That said, Horford's clearly a power forward and he's just as much a power forward in today's NBA as he would have been in times past. The Hawks need to wise up and maximize Horford's and the teams ability before it's too late.

I agree to an extent. You have to have a good PG as well. When you don't have a superstar you have to have the whole shebang. A good or very good PG, a good or very good SG, (only one role player), a good or very good SF (role player), a good to very good PF, a solid to elite center. Atlanta with Al at PF has a very good SG, SF, and PF. They are extremely weak at PG, C. No real hope or potential. Teague is years away, Bibby is years pass, and the centers well aren't starting quality. Zaza is a quality backup C but doesn't have the tools to start. Collins has the size and BBIQ but everything else isn't there, talent, potential, skills.

Atlanta would have to upgrade three areas. Getting a very good or good PG or a potential good to very good PG. It's really hard to get a very good PG.

examples of a very good PG: Rajon Rando, Russell Westbrook, Derrick Rose, Steve Nash, Tony Parker

examples of a good PG: Chauncey Billups, Devin Harris, Raymond Felton, Andre Miller, Stephen Curry

The other area is center, since centers are really hard to find you can get a lesser one and be okay. Here are examples of good and solid centers ..It's really hard to get a good Center and just as hard to get a solid Center. Centers are a premium in this L.

examples of a good C: Nene, Noah, Brook Lopez, Chandler, Bogut, Hibbert, Marc Gasol, Bynum

examples of a solid C: Okafor, McGee, Gortat, Bargnani, D. Jordan

The last area I see a main weakness is a marginal forward or center, more likely forward who can come off the bench.

examples of what I am talking about: Jamison, Blair, Craig Smith, Humphries, Charlie V, Anderson V, Hansbrough, Landry, Bass, Diaw.

It really seems like Atlanta lack of quality big men makes them venerable when Smith or Horford is in foul trouble. They could really use a decent player who is a post player off the bench. If they lose Jamal, they can afford to take the lost as long as they address with need players with the ability or potential to reach what Atlanta needs which a good/very good PG and a good/solid Center.

That's easier said then done but that's what Atlanta lacks from being a NBA championship contender. This is a great example of an Atlanta team for championship contention. The .... means everything is currently okay on the roster at the position

Tony Parker/.....

Joe/.....

Smith/Marvin(6th)/.....

Horford/Hansbrough

Gortat/.....

This is the ideal team that can get to the Finals in Atlanta and win it all.

Edited February 12, 2011 by nbasuperstar40

[Jody23]

I agree to an extent. You have to have a good PG as well. When you don't have a superstar you have to have the whole shebang. A good or very good PG, a good or very good SG, (only one role player), a good or very good SF (role player), a good to very good PF, a solid to elite center. Atlanta with Al at PF has a very good SG, SF, and PF. They are extremely weak at PG, C. No real hope or potential. Teague is years away, Bibby is years pass, and the centers well aren't starting quality. Zaza is a quality backup C but doesn't have the tools to start. Collins has the size and BBIQ but everything else isn't there, talent, potential, skills.

Atlanta would have to upgrade three areas. Getting a very good or good PG or a potential good to very good PG. It's really hard to get a very good PG.

examples of a very good PG: Rajon Rando, Russell Westbrook, Derrick Rose, Steve Nash, Tony Parker

examples of a good PG: Chauncey Billups, Devin Harris, Raymond Felton, Andre Miller, Stephen Curry

The other area is center, since centers are really hard to find you can get a lesser one and be okay. Here are examples of good and solid centers ..It's really hard to get a good Center and just as hard to get a solid Center. Centers are a premium in this L.

examples of a good C: Nene, Noah, Brook Lopez, Chandler, Bogut, Hibbert, Marc Gasol, Bynum

examples of a solid C: Okafor, McGee, Gortat, Bargnani, D. Jordan

The last area I see a main weakness is a marginal forward or center, more likely forward who can come off the bench.

examples of what I am talking about: Jamison, Blair, Craig Smith, Humphries, Charlie V, Anderson V, Hansbrough, Landry, Bass, Diaw.

It really seems like Atlanta lack of quality big men makes them venerable when Smith or Horford is in foul trouble. They could really use a decent player who is a post player off the bench. If they lose Jamal, they can afford to take the lost as long as they address with need players with the ability or potential to reach what Atlanta needs which a good/very good PG and a good/solid Center.

That's easier said then done but that's what Atlanta lacks from being a NBA championship contender. This is a great example of an Atlanta team for championship contention. The .... means everything is currently okay on the roster at the position

Tony Parker/.....

Joe/.....

Smith/Marvin(6th)/.....

Horford/Hansbrough

Gortat/.....

This is the ideal team that can get to the Finals in Atlanta and win it all.

I agree that having good pg play is important. But, I don't think it's as important as having the size inside to defend and rebound at a high level. There's a reason the Suns couldn't get past the Spurs even though they had the best pg (Nash) in the game at that time. The Spurs simply dominated them inside and in the playoffs, when the pace slows down, small ball will get you killed no matter who your pg is.

[Joker]

I agree that having good pg play is important. But, I don't think it's as important as having the size inside to defend and rebound at a high level. There's a reason the Suns couldn't get past the Spurs even though they had the best pg (Nash) in the game at that time. The Spurs simply dominated them inside and in the playoffs, when the pace slows down, small ball will get you killed no matter who your pg is.

I agree completely, I always felt those Phx teams never had a center which is why they never could get far in the West. Look when they had the Nash, Marion, Amare, and Raja team. They had the talent to contend but didn't have the size. When they did have the size that fit, Robin Lopez, Amare, Nash, they got to the WCF and lost in 6 not to mention swept the Squrs. That shows you that they were contenders. The problem was the Lakers had a superstar, a very good player (Gasol), and two good players in Odom and Bynum. They were outmatched talent wise. But they were contenders once they got size. The Suns had two very good players who were closer to superstars in Amare/Nash, one good one (J-Rich) and three good role players (Hill, Frye, and R. Lopez).

I think a true center making a presence is more important then being good at one statistical measure. Almost all marginal to elite centers create a presence at the least. That's what the Suns lacked till last year. The Hawks lack production much less a presence from that position. It's clear went Horford struggles v. true centers. The problem I've noticed is when Horf started playing center, there were only 10 marginal to elite centers in the NBA. Now there are 16-18 marginal to elite centers. The elite centers count is still at one though (D12). That makes it a lot harder to play Al at center now than it was when Al first came to Atlanta.

Edited February 12, 2011 by nbasuperstar40