We can't trust Teague.

[Diesel]

IN my estimation, Kirk Hinrich means a lot to Atlanta. He's 10 Million in trade and cap space. He's a bonafide PG. He's either the man or the man standing next tot he man as the PG of the Hawks.

There were overwhelming applause for Teague during the playoffs. Me included. However, the statisticians would tell you that we don't have enough data points. I can easily seeing moving Hinrich and getting back Dalembert or some C that we need. However, we have waited so long to fill the hole at PG with a legitimate PG. Bibby is cool and just might win a ring this year, but Bibby is an off-guard. So is Teague (right now). However, this team would run better with a PG running the show and finding guys. That's Hinrich. Plus, he plays defense.

This boils down to 1 question:

Can we trust Teague?

Is 1 series vs. 1 opponent enough to make us say... He's our man and we don't need to hold on to Hinrich any longer?

It's a hard thing to look over.

The other question is what can we get for CapN Kirk?

Well, I know LA would want him.

I know that he can find a spot in the West.

I know that there are teams like NJ that may be interested if they decide to move DWill.

Even Cleveland might want him because Hinrich is becoming a " PG Whisperer"

I know I should copyright that because some lazy Journalist will steal it from me.

But Look at the PG whisperer's track record thus far:

Rose, Wall, Teague... Send him to Cleveland and Kylie could be next.

So what's the deal?

What should we do?

[JRid]

I feel strongly that Heinrich will be a Hawk next season. They traded a whole lot to get him and he brings that toughness and good defense that the Hawks need and want. It seems like everybody expects and wants to trade him, but I just don't see it happening unless somebody makes an offer that is impossible to turn down.

[capstone21]

I know Teague can penetrate but he still has not shown he can run an offense or hit the out side shot. I still see a scorer more then a playmaker.

I think Hinrich should stay and make a 3 guard rotation. He can play SG and PG and guard both positions. That makes him the perfect compliment to Joe and Teague as Teague continues to develop.

[KB21]

I feel strongly that Heinrich will be a Hawk next season. They traded a whole lot to get him and he brings that toughness and good defense that the Hawks need and want. It seems like everybody expects and wants to trade him, but I just don't see it happening unless somebody makes an offer that is impossible to turn down.

I agree that Kirk brings the defense that this team needs, but this organization from the top down has shown no interest in acquiring players to can defend and rebound, nor to they show any evidence that they feel defense and rebounding is needed. It will not surprise me to see the Hawks bring Jamal Crawford back once he sees that the market will not bear much fruit for him, and it will fit completely with this organization's lack of interest in defense. How else could you explain why the trio of Mike Bibby, Jamal Crawford, and Joe Johnson were on the floor so much together?

There doesn't even appear to be any foresight coming from within the organization on playing Jeff Teague and Kirk Hinrich together in the same back court next year. Those two together will probably play too much defense for the Hawks, and this organization is still deluded into thinking that Joe Johnson is an upper echelon shooting guard.

[Swatguy]

In my mind Kirk is as close to be a keeper as anyone outside of Josh (Josh IS a Keeper), especially if we can redo or move Marvin's contract. To be honest he is more trusted than Joe because of Joe's gawdy contract and length. He is a bigger, more defensive, Flip with the toughness. Everything is uncertain beffore the CBA is authored.

[capstone21]

In my mind Kirk is as close to be a keeper as anyone outside of Josh (Josh IS a Keeper), especially if we can redo or move Marvin's contract. To be honest he is more trusted than Joe because of Joe's gawdy contract and length. He is a bigger, more defensive, Flip with the toughness. Everything is uncertain beffore the CBA is authored.

I think Josh is the one that needs to go more then anyone. He has more value then anyone except Al. I think it would benefit both us and him if we can get a center and he can get a change of environment

[Swatguy]

I think Josh is the one that needs to go more then anyone. He has more value then anyone except Al. I think it would benefit both us and him if we can get a center and he can get a change of environment

I disagree. When I see guys comfortably shrink in tough times I want them moved. Joe, Marvin and Al shrink in tough times. Josh is not only extremely talanted but extremely competitive. Josh don't give up he gives out. He is not apt to shrink as others do. He is the guy you want in the "foxhole", the one to go war with. Also Teague has shown that as well as Damien and Zaza. Al wants to be that jump shooting euro big and it's fine. But when the tough game is today and we needed him to dig in and battle he didn't, several games he didn't. While Al is so adored his trade value should be explored, not the heart of the team.

[Supporter]

I disagree. When I see guys comfortably shrink in tough times I want them moved. Joe, Marvin and Al shrink in tough times. Josh is not only extremely talanted but extremely competitive. Josh don't give up he gives out. He is not apt to shrink as others do. He is the guy you want in the "foxhole", the one to go war with. Also Teague has shown that as well as Damien and Zaza. Al wants to be that jump shooting euro big and it's fine. But when the tough game is today and we needed him to dig in and battle he didn't, several games he didn't. While Al is so adored his trade value should be explored, not the heart of the team.

Are you effin kidding me did you not see any games of our playoffs at ALL! Josh made horrible decisions under pressure, he wants to shoot jumpshots all the effin time. He shrinks under pressure as much as the next guy on our team

[Crank]

I disagree. When I see guys comfortably shrink in tough times I want them moved. Joe, Marvin and Al shrink in tough times. Josh is not only extremely talanted but extremely competitive. Josh don't give up he gives out. He is not apt to shrink as others do. He is the guy you want in the "foxhole", the one to go war with. Also Teague has shown that as well as Damien and Zaza. Al wants to be that jump shooting euro big and it's fine. But when the tough game is today and we needed him to dig in and battle he didn't, several games he didn't. While Al is so adored his trade value should be explored, not the heart of the team.

The only reason Josh showed up was because he was called out on national tv and was embarrassed. Its not even that he doesnt really show up its the fact that hes indifferent to what the team needs from him to actually win games .

At this point we cant trust anyone though as no one on this team is consistent. except Marvin who manages to consistently suck .

[capstone21]

I disagree. When I see guys comfortably shrink in tough times I want them moved. Joe, Marvin and Al shrink in tough times. Josh is not only extremely talanted but extremely competitive. Josh don't give up he gives out. He is not apt to shrink as others do. He is the guy you want in the "foxhole", the one to go war with. Also Teague has shown that as well as Damien and Zaza. Al wants to be that jump shooting euro big and it's fine. But when the tough game is today and we needed him to dig in and battle he didn't, several games he didn't. While Al is so adored his trade value should be explored, not the heart of the team.

Josh showed up for the last two games of the playoffs. We won against Orlando in spite of him.

[Swatguy]

The only reason Josh showed up was because he was called out on national tv and was embarrassed. Its not even that he doesnt really show up its the fact that hes indifferent to what the team needs from him to actually win games .

At this point we cant trust anyone though as no one on this team is consistent. except Marvin who manages to consistently suck .

BS

He more than showed up because he has heart.

He was the on court difference maker along with Teague. While Thomas, Boozer, Gibson and Noah were bruising, Josh went into the frey and took the hits For The Team!! Al ducked and went out to the perimeter for a jumper. Al wanted NONE OF THAT !! What games did you watch?

[Supporter]

BS

He more than showed up because he has heart.

He was the on court difference maker along with Teague. While Thomas, Boozer, Gibson and Noah were bruising, Josh went into the frey and took the hits For The Team!! Al ducked and went out to the perimeter for a jumper. Al wanted NONE OF THAT !! What games did you watch?

Don't place him in the same group as Teague, Damien, and Zaza. All three of those guys played within themselves and played the right way. Josh always and always will do things out of his character and out of his position. Time and time again we hear teammates having to back up Josh because of the dumb decisions he makes, he lost as many games as he won for us with his terrible outside shooting, costly turnovers, and lack of basketball intelligence. He doesn't fit in with this team, everyone has a specific role except Josh, he is just what he is, a wild basketball player that makes you boo him as much as you want to cheer for him

Edited May 30, 2011 by Supporter

[ag82]

BS

He more than showed up because he has heart.

He was the on court difference maker along with Teague. While Thomas, Boozer, Gibson and Noah were bruising, Josh went into the frey and took the hits For The Team!! Al ducked and went out to the perimeter for a jumper. Al wanted NONE OF THAT !! What games did you watch?

Josh had 2 great games, that's it. The problem is that almost every game he had that wasn't great, was really really bad. He had every analyst making jokes about him and his shot selection. I watched the daily dime live chat during games and josh was a running joke. I know that people here love him and he shows flashes of brilliance, but he is not a consistent guy that we can rely on if we want this team to play consistently well. If we are content with making the playoffs and maybe/maybe not making a run, he will do fine. But to get further than where we have been, we need a smarter player at the 4.

As far as teague goes, I'm torn. He definitely hasn't had enough time to say that we know we can count on him to run the team. However, he showed up when it mattered most, when almost nobody else on the team was showing up. I never thought that in the conference semis, I'd be watching our hawks and saying "give the ball to teague".. but I was. I'm not sure what that says about him or our team, but I do appreciate a guy who showed up consistently (against the mvp), played hard, smart, had very few TOs and played great basketball when we needed him to. When was the last time we could say that about a guy on our team in the playoffs?

I don't care much if teague starts or kirk starts as I think either of them are a good option, much better than what we've had in recent years. I just want teague to get the opportunity to prove himself in the regular season with 30+min/game and then we can go from there.

[Swatguy]

Don't place him in the same group as Teague, Damien, and Zaza. All three of those guys played within themselves and played the right way. Josh always and always will do things out of his character and out of his position. Time and time again we hear teammates having to back up Josh because of the dumb decisions he makes, he lost as many games as he won for us with his terrible outside shooting, costly turnovers, and lack of basketball intelligence. He doesn't fit in with this team, everyone has a specific role except Josh, he is just what he is, a wild basketball player that makes you boo him as much as you want to cheer for him

When and where have you or us " hear teammates having to back up Josh because of the dumb decisions he makes, " I've never heard a teammate blast Josh. It is remarkable how some blame a Josh shot from the field the same as Blaming Josh when he recieves a pass with 4 seconds on the shot clock left, usually from Joe or Marvin. Teamates stagnant not moving or fighting for usefulness and Josh is left with the ball, to shoot. It has happened. Josh may actually be the best passer on the team. For me, you can have that punk hide and duck game these guys you love have. I believe we need more guys like Josh with heart and drive, guts and fight. Guys like Joal Anthony, Reggie Evans, Raja Bell, AK47, K Bogans. Keep the soft guys that are supposed to be tough but are not.

[ag82]

When and where have you or us " hear teammates having to back up Josh because of the dumb decisions he makes, " I've never heard a teammate blast Josh. It is remarkable how some blame a Josh shot from the field the same as Blaming Josh when he recieves a pass with 4 seconds on the shot clock left, usually from Joe or Marvin. Teamates stagnant not moving or fighting for usefulness and Josh is left with the ball, to shoot. It has happened. Josh may actually be the best passer on the team. For me, you can have that punk hide and duck game these guys you love have. I believe we need more guys like Josh with heart and drive, guts and fight. Guys like Joal Anthony, Reggie Evans, Raja Bell, AK47, K Bogans. Keep the soft guys that are supposed to be tough but are not.

I don't think any nba analyst would describe josh as a guy with heart, drive, guts and fight in the same way as any of the guys you listed.

[Wretch]

Teague blew up in the playoffs this year. Questions about his productivity should be silenced at this point. He hit some shots that had me shaking my head over and over again - and really, this is just the beginning. It's not enough to have minutes on the floor. You have to be given responsibility and freedom too. We were desperate when Kirk went down, so we had not choice but to free him up. The results speak for themselves. He's a penetrator, a decent scorer, and a good defender.

People are quick to point out that he may not be the distributer that we need - but we have Hinrich and we have JJ. I'm not anointing him the answer to all of our problems, but dealing him (or Kirk) at this moment for a journeyman big is a mistake. With the freedom he has now and the promise he showed, I'd like to get an extended look at a Teague/Kirk/JJ lineup. Any trades right now need to start at our frontcourt. Al and Smoove have the most value and are both PF's.

We don't need to keep juggling the starting lineup. But when we go big, we're moving guys all over the place. If we were able to get a quality C, I think the best thing to do is move Al or Smoove for him and let one of those guys hold down the PF slot. Also, it puts JJ at the SF where he might be more effective as a penetrator/shooter/distributer (IOW - exactly what you want from your SF).

So in short, I say leave the guards alone and focus on the front court.

Edited May 30, 2011 by Wretch

[TRUEINTELLECTPLAYA]

If we are really trying to get better Kirk should be traded just like Jamal should have been traded. Huge expiring deals could help the team for years to come. We will be back in the same situation as we are with Jamal with Kirk next summer. Only way he stays in Atlanta is if he excepts the mid level exception and with all the holes still in this roster, plus Teague's payscale will be jumping up $1 million, I just don't think paying Kirk $5 to $7 million will make sense to the Hawks going forward. So, why not get some pieces for the guy now even if they are small pieces?

I forget to add, Kirk has been with the Hawks for less than 50 games and the teams record has been worse with him than without him and he has been injured and failed to even see the court in a crucial series. So, shouldn't we be saying we can't trust Kirk?

Edited May 30, 2011 by TRUEINTELLECTPLAYA

[niremetal]

When and where have you or us " hear teammates having to back up Josh because of the dumb decisions he makes, " I've never heard a teammate blast Josh. It is remarkable how some blame a Josh shot from the field the same as Blaming Josh when he recieves a pass with 4 seconds on the shot clock left, usually from Joe or Marvin. Teamates stagnant not moving or fighting for usefulness and Josh is left with the ball, to shoot. It has happened. Josh may actually be the best passer on the team. For me, you can have that punk hide and duck game these guys you love have. I believe we need more guys like Josh with heart and drive, guts and fight. Guys like Joal Anthony, Reggie Evans, Raja Bell, AK47, K Bogans. Keep the soft guys that are supposed to be tough but are not.

The only people who think Smoove played with "heart" or "guts" or "drive" in these playoffs are his pack of fans on Hawks fan forums.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Diesel . . you can't overlook that Hinrich was straight garbage for about 6 weeks before the playoffs. He didn't play well at all coming down the stretch in the regular season. Like everyone else, he turned it up during the playoffs.

So while I may slightly agree that we can't trust Teague, it's not like we can trust Hinrich either. I say you have to go with the younger guy as the starter, and let Hinrich come off the bench to stabilize the 2nd unit. If you want to finish games with Hinrich on the floor instead of Teague, then fine. But if Teague is even remotely ready, he should start over Hinrich.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

If we are really trying to get better Kirk should be traded just like Jamal should have been traded. Huge expiring deals could help the team for years to come. We will be back in the same situation as we are with Jamal with Kirk next summer. Only way he stays in Atlanta is if he excepts the mid level exception and with all the holes still in this roster, plus Teague's payscale will be jumping up $1 million, I just don't think paying Kirk $5 to $7 million will make sense to the Hawks going forward. So, why not get some pieces for the guy now even if they are small pieces?

I forget to add, Kirk has been with the Hawks for less than 50 games and the teams record has been worse with him than without him and he has been injured and failed to even see the court in a crucial series. So, shouldn't we be saying we can't trust Kirk?

They won't do it though, because Kirk's expiring contract is more valuable to them to be able to stay under the Luxury Tax, than trading him to bring in players ( who may have to be paid for x number of years ).