Yes or No on Josh & Marvin for KG.

[NineOhTheRino]

Want Josh and Marvin gone? How about killing 2 birds with one stone.

Don't want to called out for posting non-rumors so I had to include some audio clips. Boston is seriously talking about this. I don't think it's just Josh blowing off steam about how poorly Atl fans treated him during the playoff run.

Sekou Smith

http://media.790thezone.com/Podcasts/1345/Sekou_Smith_6-23-11.mp3

Chris Mannix

http://audio.weei.com/hosting/media/weei/1598198/chrismannix-62211-dc.mp3

WEEI

http://brightcove.vo.llnwd.net/d16/unsecured/media/1519796545/1519796545_1013690523001_Sequence-2-DnCEdit-Full-Quality.mp4

Josh being shipped to Boston?

Edited June 23, 2011 by Not5Not6Not7

[Guest]

I don't think I would ever be able to cheer for scum like KG.

[coachx]

I voted no but I would trade JJ for KG and here is why from another thread:

The main reason I would not do it is I think keeping Smoove could give us an edge in signing Howard to a max deal after KG's $20 ,mill contract falls off the books in 2012.

Lets cut staright to the point under this scenerio of dumping JJ for KG's expiring contract.

We would scrifice next season point blank. We would not resign Jamal Crawford b/c he is not the longterm goal of the plan. Teague woud have the the freedom to be the #1 perimeter option. We would be a lottery team with a lottery pick...... but here is the full plan if a JJ for KG deal went down:

In 2012 Atlanta would only have $41.819 mill committed to salaries for (Horford, Smoove, Teague, ZaZa, and Marvin).

That should be enough under the salary cap to throw a max contract at Dwight Howard. We would have his best friend (Smoove) and the fact we are his hometown going for us. If Howard chose to sign with Atlanta we would have Horford as trade bait to bring in an allstar caliber wing player to pair with Teague, Smoove, Howard, lottery pick, and some cheap shooters.

I'd go all in to get in the D. Howard sweepstakes. Especially if Smoove and Howard can start talking on the phone a year ahead of time like Wade, James, and Bosh did.

What makes this riskier then when teams dumped salary to bid on James, Wade, Bosh, Stoudemire, JJ, is that we don't know what the cap will be until the new CBA is signed. I have heard any where from $52 mill if its a soft cap to $62 mill if its a hard cap.

Edited June 23, 2011 by coachx

[DrReality]

With his knees? Hell no.

[coachx]

With his knees? Hell no.

I think your missing the whole point of this trade.

The point is to open up salary cap space to get Paul or Howard in 2012. It is a HUGE gamble but I'd roll the dice on a chance of being great.

Especially of Smoove and Howard can get on the phone like Wade and James did.

Edited June 23, 2011 by coachx

[capstone21]

He is at the end of his career. His good days are behind him

[Admin]

I think your missing the whole point of this trade.

The point is to open up salary cap space to get Paul or Howard in 2012. It is a HUGE gamble but I'd roll the dice on a chance of being great.

Especially of Smoove and Howard can get on the phone like Wade and James did.

I'm sure he was responding to the topic of this post and not your sub-trade within the topic. As posted in this topic we wouldn't have Josh anymore so there's no way Howard would be coming here.

[coachx]

I'm sure he was responding to the topic of this post and not your sub-trade within the topic. As posted in this topic we wouldn't have Josh anymore so there's no way Howard would be coming here.

I know he was BUT would the same basic main point not hold true ? People are responding with 1 line answers like KG is old or KG's knees are bad. That tells me they are missing the main point of such a trade. They are missing the bigger picture.

I would assume the same holds true that trading Smoove and Marvin for an older player with an expiring contract would be for future cap space.

Having JJ, KG, Horford, Hirich, and Teague still gives us a chance to win now while at the same time giving cap flexbility to get a max player in 2012 when KG's $20 mill falls off the books.

Bottom line.........I think any deal for KG is not done simply for 1 year of KG's production. I think you do the deal for the chance to hit a grandslam with a elite franchise star in 2012. Then if we hit that grandslam KG may sign a cheap offer to stay in Atlanta in order to play for a legit contender.

Edited June 23, 2011 by coachx

[Randy]

I like it. A guy who is old for a guy who plays old.

I voted no but I would trade JJ for KG and here is why from another thread:

The main reason I would not do it is I think keeping Smoove could give us an edge in signing Howard to a max deal after KG's $20 ,mill contract falls off the books in 2012.

[Admin]

Would the same main point not hold true ?

I would assume the same holds true that trading Smoove and Marvin for an older player with an expiring contract would be for future cap space.

Having JJ, KG, and Horford still gives us a chance to win now while at the same time giving cap flexbility to get a max player in 2012 when KG's $20 mill falls off the books.

Bottom line.........I think you do the deal for 1 year of KG's production. I think you do the deal for the chance to hit a grandslam with a elite franchise star in 2012.

The ONLY way that I would even remotely consider looking at 2012 as the year that we land a superstar is if we traded JJ to get that cap space since I highly doubt we have a shot at any superstar other than Howard and if we don't have Smoove we have zero shot at getting him. And I'd still be looking to deal for guys like Lopez or Jefferson before I would decide that cap space in 2012 is my best option.

[coachx]

The ONLY way that I would even remotely consider looking at 2012 as the year that we land a superstar is if we traded JJ to get that cap space since I highly doubt we have a shot at any superstar other than Howard and if we don't have Smoove we have zero shot at getting him. .

Hard for me to say zero chance of getting Howard to Atlanta even without Smoove.

A trio of JJ, Horford, and Howard looks quite formidable against anyone. That is a sales pitch anyone could make.

Especially if Teague continues to grow and KG decided to come back to Atlanta to play 6th man in his twighlight.

And I'd still be looking to deal for guys like Lopez or Jefferson before I would decide that cap space in 2012 is my best option.

Agreed.

1 bird in the hand is better then 2 in bush as they say. If we can get one of those centers for Smoove I would be happy with it too.

Here is the problem with my assumptions that I was waiting for someone to bring it up. Danny Ainge is no fool. Why would he trade KG ? When KG and Allen's current contracts come off the books he can make a max offer to Howard in 2012 to be their Bill Russell.

Point is we hear brief rumors of Smoove / fillers to Boston for KG. Boston denies any interest. I'm assuming those calls were initiated by Sund but quickly turned down by Ainge.

Edited June 23, 2011 by coachx

[AHawks89]

Haha is this some type of joke? KG is pretty much done. Why am I hearing stupid trade rumors that make no sense. :Talking Ear Off:

Who voted yes? Just curious.

Edited June 23, 2011 by AHawks89

[Dragitoff]

Haha is this some type of joke? KG is pretty much done. Why am I hearing stupid trade rumors that make no sense. :Talking Ear Off:

Who voted yes? Just curious.

I, very reluctantly voted yes, but not because I think KG is the better player. This is actually the type of deal I could see ASG/Sund making. It keeps us competitive this year and relevant. We clear a ton of cap room going into next offseason to possibly sign Dwight Howard. Yes, having Smith here makes us more likely to bring him here, but Boston will not have the capspace to sign him there. Would Howard rather play in Atlanta with Teague, Johnson and Horford or go to another team with capspace (most likely a middle or bottom team?). KG and Hinrich will give us over $26 million coming off the books. If we do not sign any long-term, big money contracts this off-season (meaning no to re-signing Crawford unless he comes back cheaply) that would put us under $40 million for payroll with Teague, Johnson, Horford, and Pachulia under contract. We could possibly move Pachulia's expiring deal to clear enough room to go after Dwight or another marque FA. Boston; however would be at $49+ million (not counting any draft picks from this year) with only Rondo, Pierce, Smith, and Marvin under contract. They'd be pretty much maxed out. Dwight wouldn't have the option to join his buddies in Beantown. We'd still have leverage to sign him. We are still his hometown team and would have a very strong nucleus in place here.

I absolutely despise KG. I've never liked his arrogance and attitude, but he is respected around the league. He helped broker the original big 3. I could see him getting some key vets to come to ATL on 1 year vet deals this year to compete. Either way, we'd have

Teague/Hinrich

Johnson/??/Sy

????/Wilkins

Garnett/???

Horford/Pachulia/Collins

Plug in some vet guys like a Grant Hill @ SF, maybe a Kenyon Martin off the bench @ PF and you've got some solid veteran presence in the locker room for this season and those are all guys who can still contribute some. As much as it pains me, I think this could be a smart fiscal and beneficial trade for the Hawks....short-term, not as much, but potentially huge long-term. Dwight Howard huge!

[AHawks89]

That will make Boston better, and us older with wishful thinking in the future. We'll still have the center problem, with Al & his father complaining about the PF position. Like you said, all this would do is have more cap space in the future. What happens after that? No one knows, just wishful thinking from here and out if that happens. Typical Atlanta move.

Edited June 23, 2011 by AHawks89

[Dragitoff]

That will make Boston better, and us older with wishful thinking in the future. We'll still have the center problem, with Al & his father complaining about the PF position. Like you said, all this would do is have more cap space in the future. What happens after that? No one knows, just wishful thinking from here and out if that happens. Typical Atlanta move.

I agree, it is "wishful", but thinking we're going to land a superstar with Josh Smith and Kirk Hinrich (expiring) as our best trade assets has to be wishing too doesn't it? Maybe I've just become anti-Josh. Maybe I'm ready for some change. I am ready for this team to roll the dice and take a step towards becoming a truly elite team and a chance to be called a contender without people snickering. Sometimes those gambles don't pay off. I know. But unless you're a team like the Lakers, you have to take chances to overtake the premier teams unless you get lucky through the draft and have excellent player development, neither of which have been the Hawks strong suit.

[MaceCase]

First of all, people are under the impression that KG sucked last year. He didn't, he was better than both players we are shipping out in both the reg season and the post so if that guy is done then it makes me wonder about what possible future production anyone can really expect out of Smoove and Marvin.

Second of all, the deal would clear our 22 million in salary for 2012 which is what this is really centered around. No use boohooing over Josh because he'd be gone in 2013 regardless and people want Marvin out before the 4th of July let alone 2014.

Some squawkers believe that no one will come to Atlanta without Joe, well this would be the perfect opportunity to see if that's true. You'd have a core of Al, Joe and Teague and barely even 40 million on the cap in a summer where such unrestricted free agents as Paul, Deron, Dwight, Nash, Miller, Felton, and Kaman are available and then such restricted free agents as Rose, Gallinari, Hibbert, Gordon, Mayo, Beasley, Love, Westbrook, Batum, George Hill, Javale McGee and Brook Lopez will be waiting to be bid on.

Then you can't overlook the obvious which many forget too often, capspace can also allow you to facilitate trades where you take more back than you give out.

Either way, 20-25 mil in capspace is a lot of cheese to go out and spend for a supposedly attractive playoff franchise in a supposedly attractive city and market with two all star caliber players already on the roster. Cost of doing business in the NBA.

[AHawks89]

I don't think anyone is expecting a "superstar", but it may come off as that because of all the shitty trade rumors going on right now. I wouldn't take one of those trades mentioned in the rumors. Do I expect to get an All-Star back? Yes, actually I do. Not someone who was an All-Star 8 years ago, I want one now. If we trade Smith + whoever, then we need to be getting an All-Star. Josh brings to much to the table to just let go for cap space, etc.

[Dragitoff]

I don't think anyone is expecting a "superstar", but it may come off as that because of all the shitty trade rumors going on right now. I wouldn't take one of those trades mentioned in the rumors. Do I expect to get an All-Star back? Yes, actually I do. Not someone who was an All-Star 8 years ago, I want one now. If we trade Smith + whoever, then we need to be getting an All-Star. Josh brings to much to the table to just let go for cap space, etc.

Do you think the team of.....

Teague

Hinrich

Horford

Garnett

Pachulia

Collins

Wilkins

FA vets (MLE and vet min.)-quality guys too, not bums no one else wanted)

....isn't enough to be a playoff team and do AT LEAST what we did this season? For this season, I think that team could be just as good. For the future, you have the opportunity to be GREAT! Teams like ours that don't draft well or develop their players that well have to take gambles if they ever want to get better. The team as currently constructed is good, but flawed.

[MaceCase]

Garnett was an All Star last season...

[TheNorthCydeRises]

I keep asking . . does anybody watch the league?

Per 36 Minute numbers

JOSH SMITH

17.3 ppg

8.9 rebs

3.5 asst

1.6 blks

1.3 stls

47.7% FG ( 14.2 att )

33.1% 3FG ( 2.1 att )

72.5% FT ( 4.3 att )

KEVIN GARNETT

17.1 ppg

10.2 rebs

2.8 asst

0.9 blks

1.5 stls

52.8% FG ( 13.3 att )

20% 3FG ( 0.1 att )

86.2% FT ( 3.5 FT )

As a player, KG and Smith are neck and neck. You get stability and leadership with KG, while Smith gives you that energy and wow factor. The ONLY issue here is age.

Add Garnett to the Hawks, and you'll get . . .

- an instant leader for the team, on a team void of leadership, that could use his championship experience to help the team as far as work ethic

- an emotional leader that will motivate teammates to play at a higher level

- a box office attraction that people will come to see ( even if he isn't in his prime ) . . the groupies will definitely be out to see KG, because they love dude

- a 47% shooter from 16 - 23 feet, which added with Horford, would give us two of the best jumpshooting big men in the game

- a better rebounder, especially on the defensive boards

- the ability to re-sign him for maybe a year or two extra at a very reduced rate, especially if the Hawks have success in the playoffs with KG on the team.

- instant national exposure and credibility, which will lead to more national TV games ( seeing that our TV presence might be reduced next year due our lack of buzz as a team )

If there's ever a time to trade Josh Smith, and get a player that can help the Hawks for a season or two, it is now.

If the deal is Josh + Marvin for KG . . . I'd have to seriously think about it from all the angles I just listed above, especially from a leadership and box office attraction standpoint.

If the deal is Josh + Marvin for KG and a 1st round pick . . . . YES