Yes or No on Josh & Marvin for KG.

[NineOhTheRino]

I don't think anyone is expecting a "superstar", but it may come off as that because of all the shitty trade rumors going on right now. I wouldn't take one of those trades mentioned in the rumors. Do I expect to get an All-Star back? Yes, actually I do. Not someone who was an All-Star 8 years ago, I want one now. If we trade Smith + whoever, then we need to be getting an All-Star. Josh brings to much to the table to just let go for cap space, etc.

What about JJ for KG? I afraid that if the Hawks don't move JJ now they will be stuck with him for the duration of that hideous contract.

[Admin]

Garnett was an All Star last season...

Allen Iverson was an All-Star in the 2010 game as well...but didn't play for personal reasons.

[AHawks89]

Garnett was an All Star last season...

I'm talking about a legit All-Star. Yes, KG is a legit All-Star, but he wasn't last year. The vets who make the NBA All-Star team is a joke. You and I both know that. I don't know why you said that.

What about JJ for KG? I afraid that if the Hawks don't move JJ now they will be stuck with him for the duration of that hideous contract.

No, but if we're talking about clearing cap space and what not, then we fudged ourselves over with JJ's contract.

[MaceCase]

Allen Iverson was an All-Star in the 2010 game as well...but didn't play for personal reasons.

He was voted, KG was selected by the coaches and you can reference the stats North put up and even go into the advanced stats if that tickles your fancy. Like I said before, if a 34 year who is supposedly done still managed to perform better than our 25 year old then why are we overrating our 25 year old and expecting the world in return for him? For all intents and purposes we would be getting the better player and then the added benefit of massive cap savings later.

[AHawks89]

Who was the coach for the All Stars last year? I forget.

[MaceCase]

Who was the coach for the All Stars last year? I forget.

The reserves were chosen by votes among the NBA head coaches in their respective conferences. The coaches were not permitted to vote for their own players. The reserves consists of two guards, two forwards, one center and two players regardless of position. If a player is unable to participate due to injury, the commissioner will select a replacement.[6]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_NBA_All-Star_Game#Players

Try harder.

[AHawks89]

You must think highly of KG. I would understand years ago, but now? No thanks.

It's like we're trying to help other teams get better in the east. Boston & Magic were the old contenders, but Chicago & Miami are the rising teams. Boston & Orlando are trying to improve their team, while it seems like we're just throwing our pieces away.

Edited June 23, 2011 by AHawks89

[MaceCase]

Here's the problem, Kevin Garnett was better than Josh Smith just last season........not long ago, just last season. So is it me thinking highly of him or others thinking too highly of Josh? I just wanted to dispel the "done", "old", and "bad knees" comments that have been floated around. The guy can give a team one more season at an All Star level and then he's off the books, for that he's pretty f***ing valuable no matter who gets traded for him.

[AHawks89]

No thanks.

[coachx]

[quote name='northcyde' timestamp='1308849148' post='518429

As a player, KG and Smith are neck and neck. You get stability and leadership with KG, while Smith gives you that energy and wow factor. The ONLY issue here is age.

And almost immediate cap room in 2012 to target Paul, D-Will, or Howard to team with JJ and Horford longterm.

I can't beieve how many people who are blind to that.

Any way..........Boston is not doing it b/c they want cap room to make their own play for Shaq of our generation who will be in prime for several more years.

[MaceCase]

And almost immediate cap room in 2012 to target Paul, D-Will, or Howard to team with JJ and Horford longterm.

I can't beieve how many people who are blind to that.

Any way..........Boston is not doing it b/c they want cap room to make their own play for Shaq of our generation who will be in prime for several more years.

The Marvin part may complicate their cap a little for them but at the same time it would mean that they wouldn't have to resign Jeff Green this summer and then I'm sure they could flip Marvo with the Clippers pick if they really need to shed salary later on in summer 2012.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

What about JJ for KG? I afraid that if the Hawks don't move JJ now they will be stuck with him for the duration of that hideous contract.

I agree. If the Hawks wanted to get out from under JJ's contract, a Garnett for JJ swap would be a legit one.

But here comes the great dilemma.

The entire reason why a guy like Smith is more expendable than JJ, is because we already have a guy in Horford that can slide to the PF spot and play his position. Add the fact that Josh is a free agent in 2 years, and you see why all of the talk is about Smith now, instead of the fully extended JJ or Horford. But let's play with both scenarios. Neither of these teams will factor in our 2nd round pick, which I think is pretty irrelevant this year. He'll warm the bench with Sy.

Lineup if the JJ - Garnett swap is made

Teague - ????

Hinrich - Wilkins - Sy

Smith - Marvin

Garnett - ????

Horford - Pachulia - Collins

Both Wilkins and Collins are re-signed to 1 year vet minimum deals. Pape Sy sticks around as a cheap project.

With that lineup, Hinrich would have to start at the 2. He'd also have to double as the backup PG, which would lead to extended minutes for Damien at the 2. Teague and Hinrich would definitely have to play at a fairly high level for that lineup to work. Smith - KG - Horford is a very good frontline. Smith's shooting is still a major concern, especially with this lineup, because KG and Horford are both midrange shooting guys. Marvin would have to be the 6th man and play at a high level both at the 3 and the 4.

So depending on what you'd want with that squad, the need would be either another PF ( preferably a banger ), or another SF ( preferably a shooter ) and a backup PG or shooter/defender at SG . . both would have to be vet minimum guys. I think with Smith's ability to play the 4, I'd try to add another combo guard and a wing to the team.

- Delonte West ( combo guard )

- James Jones ( wing shooter )

New lineup

Teague ( 36 ) - Hinrich ( 12 )

Hinrich ( 22 ) - West ( 16 ) - Wilkins ( 10 ) - Sy

Smith ( 24 ) - Marvin ( 16 ) - Jones ( 8 )

Garnett ( 30 ) - Smith ( 12 ) - Horford ( 8 )

Horford ( 28 ) - Zaza ( 14 ) - Collins ( 6 )

11-man rotation with Sy as the benchwarmer

That's not a bad team at all. It's just that a guy like Teague would have to play at a Chicago like level, for them to reach their potential, and Hinrich would have to be solid defensively at the 2. I think that team could win 45 games if healthy . . 50 max. But they don't have that potential explosive scorer or that take over the game guy. And I don't like Smith logging all of those minutes at the 3. But to satisfy Horford, and with KG on the team, he'd have to play that much at the 3. That would have to truly be a true team effort, for that team to succeed. It's defintely a playoff squad as long as Smith plays within himself.

Lineup if Smith and Marvin were traded for KG + 1st round pick

Teague - Hinrich

Johnson - ???? - Sy

???? - Wilkins

Garnett - ???

Horford - Zaza - Collins

To make it fair . . same parameters. Wilkins and Collins re-signed. Sy stays too for one more year.

You instantly see where the holes are. The starting lineup is nice and balanced, but we need bench upgrades, seeing that I'm not fond of Sy and Wilkins getting extended minutes with the 2nd team. With this team, you're talking about adding either a legit 2 guard that can shoot/defend . . or a combo guard. I'd opt for a legit 2 guard . . probably a defensive 2, seeing that I still have the perimeter scoring JJ on the team who can play both the 2 and the 3. AS for the other spot, I might opt to go for a "stretch/rebounding" 4 to backup Garnett, or a big man upgrade better than Zaza or Collins to play center, so that Garnett and Horford can play most of the minutes at PF.

If I can get that #25 pick from Boston, I'll go with the guy that nbadraft.net has Boston taking right now . . . Georgia's - Trey Thompkins. He's the versatile 4 that can shoot the ball and play around the rim. At worse, he's a better rebounding version of Josh Powell, who wasn't bad offensively for us this year . . he just couldn't rebound or defend worth crap. Thompkins has been criticized for being lazy. KG wouldn't allow him to be lazy. He'd motivate him just like he did Big Baby.

As for the wing player, I'm probably making a play for Tracy McGrady. While not a big time scorer anymore, T-Mac did show some pretty good playmaking skills last year. It'll be a situation in which you couldn't expect him to log 30 minutes a night. He'd be one of those 18 - 25 minute per game type guys. But even as a starter, he could be an extra facilitator from the SF spot that could get people decent looks. And he can still handle the ball and get his own shot, which would be a plus.

The defensive filler would probably be a guy like Quinton Ross, who made his claim to fame as a defensive player while with the Clippers. In Jersey though, he was an afterthought on a bad team.

Teague ( 36 ) - Hinrich ( 12 )

Hinrich ( 16 ) - Johnson ( 20 ) - Wilkins ( 12 )

Johnson ( 18 ) - McGrady ( 24 ) - Wilkins ( 8 ) - Ross

Garnett ( 30 ) - Horford ( 10 ) - Thompkins ( 8 )

Horford ( 26 ) - Zaza ( 16 ) - Collins ( 6 )

Other than the very balanced starting lineup, the one thing I see with this lineup is that a guy like Damien Wilkins would have to become an important rotational player on the perimeter. Which means he'd have to be our version of Keith Bogans as a defensive asset. McGrady would be called upon to be an important bench player as well, seeing that he'd be the guy that would be playing alongside JJ most of the time when JJ plays the 2. And Horford may have to become close to that 20 ppg - 10+ rebound guy that some think he can become. I don't think he can do it, but he may have to with this lineup.

As with the other team, I think this squad is a legit 45 win team. The difference would be in the experience that comes with the additions of Garnett and McGrady. Could the old pros make enough plays, especially toward the end of games, that would take the Hawks to the next level? I do think if both squads played up to their potential

Two interesting teams, in my opinion . . . regardless of what direction the ASG goes.

He was voted, KG was selected by the coaches and you can reference the stats North put up and even go into the advanced stats if that tickles your fancy. Like I said before, if a 34 year who is supposedly done still managed to perform better than our 25 year old then why are we overrating our 25 year old and expecting the world in return for him? For all intents and purposes we would be getting the better player and then the added benefit of massive cap savings later.

Exactly.

[Sothron]

Why would we trade a guy with a reasonable contract in his mid twenties for a literally broken down old man? I can't believe the A$G is this cheap. They have their blood money from Thrasher fans to the tune of 110 million, why dump Josh for nothing?

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Why would we trade a guy with a reasonable contract in his mid twenties for a literally broken down old man? I can't believe the A$G is this cheap. They have their blood money from Thrasher fans to the tune of 110 million, why dump Josh for nothing?

Why did the old broke down old man outplay Smith this year?

Heck . . and whose to say how many years Garnett has as a quality player . . 2, maybe 3 more years? He's still one of the better defensive PFs in the game with one of the best midrange games in the league. If we can get Horford to become a better post scorer and become a legit #2 scoring option, how valuable would it be in the next 2 - 3 years to have a vet like Garnett playing alongside him?

I think people are still thinking that Josh Smith can become a better player. I'm starting to think that this may be as good as he'll ever be. If the guy continues to refuse to play on the inside 70% of the time as an offensive player, he's not going to improve. We've already seen a decline in his shot blocking, due to nagging injuries.

People act like the Hawks have some 5 year window of opportunity to do something significant. If JJ is here for the long term, we need to surround the best possible mix of talent around him RIGHT NOW . . not in 3 years.

As good as Smith is at times, he averaged 3.7 ppg - 3 rebs - and shot 14% FG vs Boston last season . . . with KG matched up on him most of those games. Dude was 3 - 21 FG in 3 games vs Boston.

Edited June 23, 2011 by northcyde

[dlpin]

I am pretty sure that this is just some reporters trying to create a buzz during the slow news period. First, because the salaries are very far apart, and it's not like the Hawks could just throw in a 3 million dollar filler to match them up.

Second, because the entire celtics' plan for the future is based on having cap space in 2012. That is the reason they didn't resign Tony Allen (wanted one more year), that is the reason they only game Ray Allen and Jermaine Oneal 2 year deals. Why would they take on someone who is signed for an extra year?

Third, because Smith simply doesn't fit with the celtics. The celtics need post scoring and an inside presence. They already have a powerforward who would rather hang out at the 3 point line (Jeff Green).Not that Jeff Green is on the same level as Smith, but how would they play together, at least on offense?

Finally, KG may be old but he is still a team leader and a solid post defender. I am pretty sure the other veterans on the team would be pretty pissed if he was traded.

Edited June 23, 2011 by dlpin

[sasuke]

Guys, here's our current cap situation:

We are screwed

We will be like 4 mill shy of the tax threshold without our 3rd option( Jamal ) & 4 players shy of league minimum (13)

How on God's green earth are we going to replace/resign Jamal & fill the other 3 spots with at least mediocre players without paying tax??????

We don't have many options:

#1, Pay the tax to stay path or get better.

#2, Fill the 4 spots with mediocre vets & pray.

#3, Dump Marvin with the 2012 pick( You have to include the pick, get real) so you can resign/replace Jamal & do #2

#4, Blow it up, dump as much salary as you can, stash one season, get a high pick, use the cap space on FAs or on trades & come back stronger next season.

I don't think our ownership will go #1, I don't think #2 make us better if not worst, #3 is more like staying path depending on who may sign for cheap & #4 may be the best thing to do having the ASG.

All that considering the current CBA, the new one is rumored to have a hard cap so it can be worst.

That being said, give me Garnett's expiring contract for Smoove & Marvin any day & they don't even have to include a pick.

If anyone has an realistic idea on how to get better in this cap inferno without paying tax...............

Edited June 24, 2011 by sasuke

[AHF]

#2 is the most likely option.

[sasuke]

#2 is the most likely option.

I know, but, is it the best thing to do?

[Joker]

Yes, that means all we have to do is trade Zaza to Memphis for Mayo and buyout KG in 2012 we would have enough cap to sign a big time FA like Deron or Paul. I would do this today if I could. KG and Horford is better than Smoove and Horford even if Smith might be as good or better than KG and much younger.

[thescout5]

About 3-4 weeks ago I was listening on ESPN radio them talking about Doc Rivers and he just signed a long contract. Boston is not a team that is going to sit around and get old. Their GM (Ainge) as made moves before and on ESPN the commentator said he thinks Boston will make another big splash this off season. It makes sense for Boston and if Atlanta thinks they could get a super star in free agency the deal could go down.

Edited June 25, 2011 by thescout5