Do we tank the season in hopes of bigger returns next season?

[Diesel]

What's the value of a Josh Smith to the league?

We started the season with him talking about a change of scenary and as much as many of us love him and this is an allstar bid, what can we get for him?

But trade proposals is not this thread.

This thread is...

IF there were a player, let's call him player X...

Who was a good fit with Horf and would make us an exceptional young frontcourt team that didn't have match issues and could possibly move HOrf to the PF fulltime... Would tanking this season be worth it?

Would trading for a guy and putting ourselves in a better lottery position while getting rid of the babyface of the franchise make us better?

I don't know who player X could be. I don't know who would be a good match for Horf. If Josh goes, Marvin must go too is my stipulation.

I'm sure that there are some who are for this (after a loss) and I'm sure that there are some who remember Nique or are fans of JSmoove.

My question is would this be best for the Hawks?

[Wretch]

I don't have a good answer...

I would REALLY hate to trade Josh. Him on the right team = Championship. He needs a Kobe, Garnett type of cat to get in his face and coach with some rep. He's the big fish here so he's going to do what he wants.

Change is needed though. I saw enough of this core 3 seasons ago. This is the point where a team gets over the hump or makes the necessary moves to move the needle up or down. I'm fine with taking a step back if it means we're ultimately taking a step forward.

[yungsta]

i really think trading him for a 2012 draft pick to a terrible team and tanking for the draft is the best answer. This franchise needs to go into a new direction. I know some people think he is worth more than that but he really isnt and the good GMs know this.

He is very good but he is not a starting player PF/SF on a champion ship team. I think he is fit to play that lamar odom/thaddus young 6th man role. He is not good at defending the post, average rebounder, very inconsistency shooter, bad decision maker, still after being in the league for about 8 years,loves to kill momentum, turnover prone and is just not a winner( I have seen too many times where the game is close and he would just quit on the play).

I know every player has flaws but most of his issues are MENTAL ISSUES still after being in the league for 8 years!!!! Some people hope he would change but it is pretty clear to me he isnt. I had hope 2 years ago but I have given up since last year.

Edited January 21, 2012 by yungsta

[DJlaysitup]

Settle down pilgrim...if we get Kirk back and get AL back for the playoffs there is a decent chance that we just might win the NBA Championship this year.....of course we need to get better at free throws

[Gray Mule]

Our man - child. What do we do with him? That has been the question that has

haunted Hawk fans ever since he arrived here.

He does things - lots of things - great things - stupid things. He is one of the most

talented Hawks. Sometimes he can hit the long shot - over and over again. Then,

he can sometimes put up enough bricks to build a good sized outhouse.

He's a great rebounder. He throws down thunder dunks. He camps out behind the

three point line, hoping for the opportunity to launch a bomb. He throws pin point

passes that will amaze us. Then, he throws the ball to - - no one. Turnover. Who

did he thimk was going to be there? Well, Duh!!

He gets to the charity stripe often. He makes slightly over 50% of his free throws.

Makes a lot of sense to foul him, just like his buddy, Howard.

He does things that we think "That was smart." Then, he turns around and "That was dumb"

is our next thought.

When he's good, he's great. When he's not, he's terrible.

You figure him out, if you can.

[Eddielives]

If the right trade scenario presented itself, I would trade Josh in a heartbeat. I really don't care about this season as far as winning the championship. It shouldn't be a mystery that we don't have the talent to win it all. Getting a couple of good draft picks this year could actually mean we're in a position in as little as 2 years to actually be legitimate contenders.....but not until we get lucky and get that legit star scoring threat and some better post rebounding and scoring.

[CODHAWKSFAN]

Our man - child. What do we do with him? That has been the question that has

haunted Hawk fans ever since he arrived here.

He does things - lots of things - great things - stupid things. He is one of the most

talented Hawks. Sometimes he can hit the long shot - over and over again. Then,

he can sometimes put up enough bricks to build a good sized outhouse.

He's a great rebounder. He throws down thunder dunks. He camps out behind the

three point line, hoping for the opportunity to launch a bomb. He throws pin point

passes that will amaze us. Then, he throws the ball to - - no one. Turnover. Who

did he thimk was going to be there? Well, Duh!!

He gets to the charity stripe often. He makes slightly over 50% of his free throws.

Makes a lot of sense to foul him, just like his buddy, Howard.

He does things that we think "That was smart." Then, he turns around and "That was dumb"

is our next thought.

When he's good, he's great. When he's not, he's terrible.

You figure him out, if you can.

^^^^ lol classic. I love it Mule

[WakaFlocka]

i really think trading him for a 2012 draft pick to a terrible team and tanking for the draft is the best answer. This franchise needs to go into a new direction. I know some people think he is worth more than that but he really isnt and the good GMs know this.

He is very good but he is not a starting player PF/SF on a champion ship team. I think he is fit to play that lamar odom/thaddus young 6th man role. He is not good at defending the post, average rebounder, very inconsistency shooter, bad decision maker, still after being in the league for about 8 years,loves to kill momentum, turnover prone and is just not a winner( I have seen too many times where the game is close and he would just quit on the play).

I know every player has flaws but most of his issues are MENTAL ISSUES still after being in the league for 8 years!!!! Some people hope he would change but it is pretty clear to me he isnt. I had hope 2 years ago but I have given up since last year.

So, first you think Josh is valuable enough that teams would be willing to trade their ~Top 10 pick for him, yet then you go on about all the things that he's not good at (to which your list is absurd, btw)...? That makes sense... If Josh was half as bad as you just made him out to be, why would any team trade a top draft pick for him? How would that even be an option for a poor defending, poor shooting, poor decision making, average rebounding, SF/PF? Hopefully you see what I'm getting at here...

[yungsta]

So, first you think Josh is valuable enough that teams would be willing to trade their ~Top 10 pick for him, yet then you go on about all the things that he's not good at (to which your list is absurd, btw)...? That makes sense... If Josh was half as bad as you just made him out to be, why would any team trade a top draft pick for him? How would that even be an option for a poor defending, poor shooting, poor decision making, average rebounding, SF/PF? Hopefully you see what I'm getting at here...

I said he was very good in the beginning but he doesnt fit this team and I really do think there is a mediocre/terrible team with a not so good GM that would take him for a pick.

I said he was a poor post defender not overall defender.

Edited January 21, 2012 by yungsta

[warcore]

the one team I can see us trading Josh to for a top pick is NJ, and we can ride out the season to give this core one last chance in the process. NJN would want Josh to increase their chances of getting D12:

Draft night trade of Josh for pick, Marshon Brooks, and sweetener like Morrow (IF the pick is top 5)

[Diesel]

i really think trading him for a 2012 draft pick to a terrible team and tanking for the draft is the best answer. This franchise needs to go into a new direction. I know some people think he is worth more than that but he really isnt and the good GMs know this.

He is very good but he is not a starting player PF/SF on a champion ship team. I think he is fit to play that lamar odom/thaddus young 6th man role. He is not good at defending the post, average rebounder, very inconsistency shooter, bad decision maker, still after being in the league for about 8 years,loves to kill momentum, turnover prone and is just not a winner( I have seen too many times where the game is close and he would just quit on the play).

I know every player has flaws but most of his issues are MENTAL ISSUES still after being in the league for 8 years!!!! Some people hope he would change but it is pretty clear to me he isnt. I had hope 2 years ago but I have given up since last year.

No, not trading him for a draft pick. Trading him for a player that would fit well with HORF and realizing that losing him and not having Horf would mean we have tanked the season. We might not be a high lottery team but we would be lottery.

[cam1218]

Like them or hate them, the ASG have spent too much money for this team to tank.

[willthepureshooter]

[Joker]

I don't have a good answer...

I would REALLY hate to trade Josh. Him on the right team = Championship. He needs a Kobe, Garnett type of cat to get in his face and coach with some rep. He's the big fish here so he's going to do what he wants.

Change is needed though. I saw enough of this core 3 seasons ago. This is the point where a team gets over the hump or makes the necessary moves to move the needle up or down. I'm fine with taking a step back if it means we're ultimately taking a step forward.

Josh isn't a championship player. Not consistent enough and has a tendency to lose games for a team. If anything, he's a 6th man on a championship caliber team. I am not high on trading either. I would trade both for Dwight. Unsigned or not. Dwight and Joe can win you a title. But Dwight, Joe, and a 3rd leg from a trade of Hinrich at PF could put us over the top for years to come. We have a good enough team if we lost Smith and Horford, we could win it all with Howard.

No, not trading him for a draft pick. Trading him for a player that would fit well with HORF and realizing that losing him and not having Horf would mean we have tanked the season. We might not be a high lottery team but we would be lottery.

Honestly, Horf is kinda limited on this team and it has nothing to do with Josh Smith and everything to do with us not having a playmaking PG. Teague will never be that. Hinrich as well. Pargo, LOLGO. Bibby was extremely smart but he was never a playmaker. Horf needs someone like Ricky Rubio, Nash, CP3, or Deron to reach is potential.

Honestly, Smith and Horford are an average fit. Not great but they play well together at times.

Edited January 22, 2012 by nbasuperstar40

[HawksFan87]

Oh great another trade josh smith thread.. What is this like the 50th already this season?? Face it guys Al will never ever be able to carry a team offensively so you guys mightest well let that go.

And the fact that you guys call yourself fans but want us to tank is a joke.. The hawks should continue to win and prove everyone including the fans who want us to fail wrong.

[willthepureshooter]

Oh great another trade josh smith thread.. What is this like the 50th already this season?? Face it guys Al will never ever be able to carry a team offensively so you guys mightest well let that go.

And the fact that you guys call yourself fans but want us to tank is a joke.. The hawks should continue to win and prove everyone including the fans who want us to fail wrong.

They're actually LeBron and Kobe fans that want them to come play here. Pretty much bang wagon fans that don't understand basketball. Who in there right mind would tank a playoff team because one player gets hurt..?

[Wretch]

Josh isn't a championship player. Not consistent enough and has a tendency to lose games for a team. If anything, he's a 6th man on a championship caliber team. I am not high on trading either. I would trade both for Dwight. Unsigned or not.

Oh....I disagree with you on that. I see Josh as a better Ben Wallace, who was absolutely key to the Piston's championship.

From an offensive standpoint? No, Josh isn't going to win you a title. But what he brings in terms of blocked shots, assists, rebounds, energy, and scoring at the rim - if he played up to his potential - you're looking at the missing link for quite a few teams. Especially with the right players and coach around him. He would be phenomenal and not the kind of guy you want on the bench.

I'd start him at SF over Artest for the Lakers or Marion for the Mavs...man, imagine that defense with Chandler last year. I'd put him next to Dwight Howard...nobody would score a bucket. Josh can be a key player for a championship team. If he'd play right, he'd be the key player on this team. Hell we used to have that very argument about 3 seasons ago.

[BrazilianHawk]

Tanking builds the losing mentality we struggled to get rid of for years. As a fan I'd hate to see my team doing that.

We have a good team, maybe a real coach (one that would bench Birdbrain's *ss for shooting lomp jumpers with 10+ seconds left in the clock) away from title contention. That, or a player that understands what his role in the team is (Scola, Noah, Nene, Bynum, the Gasol brothers, there are plenty of them to choose and try a trade for).

[yungsta]

Its already proven that the build of this team has 2nd round exits written all over it maybe even a first round exit if we get a very low seeding. Lets be real this team is not a contender.

so its wrong for me as a hawks fan to suggest them to take a couple steps back to TRY to improve the build of this team and become contenders????? rather than be stuck in mediorcrity until our core are in their 30's????

Edited January 22, 2012 by yungsta

[Joker]

Oh....I disagree with you on that. I see Josh as a better Ben Wallace, who was absolutely key to the Piston's championship.

From an offensive standpoint? No, Josh isn't going to win you a title. But what he brings in terms of blocked shots, assists, rebounds, energy, and scoring at the rim - if he played up to his potential - you're looking at the missing link for quite a few teams. Especially with the right players and coach around him. He would be phenomenal and not the kind of guy you want on the bench.

I'd start him at SF over Artest for the Lakers or Marion for the Mavs...man, imagine that defense with Chandler last year. I'd put him next to Dwight Howard...nobody would score a bucket. Josh can be a key player for a championship team. If he'd play right, he'd be the key player on this team. Hell we used to have that very argument about 3 seasons ago.

Not really, Big Ben was what he was because of fit in Detroit. He played next to a PF who could stretch the court but also could defend PF and C's. Big Ben struggle to defend centers and lacked versatility but he was an elite anchor who could rebound with the best. Smith lacks consistency on offense which destroy momentum and his just not that smart of a offensive player. He doesn't play to his strengths like Big Ben does. He has the tools but what he lacks always bites him in the butt. Josh issues are issues for any team no matter how good or how bad but in the playoffs especially when a team isn't as talented as Atlanta sans their superstar, it becomes an issue.

I really don't agree with the Dwight Howard statement. It's hard to score in the paint v. Dwight Howard as it is. Smith can be drawn out of the post. Howard can't because he literally locks down the paint. Only Bill Russell could do that outside of Howard. Howard and Smith isn't a great fit at all. Both players do the same thing well except Howard does it much better with superior tools.

I don't see Smith as a championship player unless the PG is Steve Nash who is the only elite UPTEMPO PG in the NBA. Most elite true PG's are half court based. Nash is better when he's full court based.