Calling the Marvin Protection Force...

[Guest]

But taking into account the big picture of the controversy surrounding him the past few days, he sort of set himself up to be scrutinized in this game.

You are accusing Marvin of making up those rumors by saying "he sort of set himself up to be scrutinized" while Marvin has already denied them. You go out of your way to claim "Well I will believe the rumors until Broussard says they aren't true" which has to be one of the dumbest things I have heard all day. You have no logic in your posts at all for this thread. You are completely blinded by reason for this thread.

[Admin]

Dolf if you see this I'd like to ask you to consider a temporary ban on Marvin talk until the All Star break is over. I'm actually getting upset that we have a long time poster who clearly has lost all perspective on where sports crosses with, you know, basic humanity like not attacking someone after a death in their family. Marvin is a Hawks player, this is a Hawks fan site, I don't think it is appropriate for now. A few days break in the Marvin bashing isn't going to stop anyone from criticizing him after the All star break.

Just a suggestion and a request.

It's a good suggestion but it would be extremely difficult to enforce as it's just AHF and myself and neither of us have the time to do that much policing. Hell I can't even get people to stop posting made up trades in the main forum after all of this time.

But yeah I absolutely agree with this and if it were possible to police it I would be all for it. As it stands I'll just ask people to try and show a little empathy for someone who is by all accounts a great teammate and an wonderful human being.

[Guest]

Dolf if you see this I'd like to ask you to consider a temporary ban on Marvin talk until the All Star break is over. I'm actually getting upset that we have a long time poster who clearly has lost all perspective on where sports crosses with, you know, basic humanity like not attacking someone after a death in their family. Marvin is a Hawks player, this is a Hawks fan site, I don't think it is appropriate for now. A few days break in the Marvin bashing isn't going to stop anyone from criticizing him after the All star break.

Just a suggestion and a request.

While I agree with your sentiment, I do not agree with this suggestion going through. For one, Dolf is not unbiased in this situation (even though he is right ). And two, Diesel and Eddie are making complete asses out of themselves with this thread. That is a lot of punishment in itself because they normally aren't asses.

Edited February 23, 2012 by hawksfanatic

[Admin]

While I agree with your sentiment, I do not agree with this suggestion going through. For one, Dolf is not unbiased in this situation (even though he is right ). And two, Diesel and Eddie are making complete asses out of themselves with this thread. That is a lot of punishment in itself because they normally aren't asses.

Me, biased? I am always unbiased and impartial. And I never curse or drink or break any laws either.

[Brotha2ThaNite]

The topic to this thread had me ROLMBO! 5Stars!

[Admin]

Seems to me that IF ANYONE had something to prove tonight it would be Josh Smith since hes the unquestionable best player on the court for the Hawks right now AND he should still be proving his All-Star snubbing detractors wrong. Doesn't seem like he did much to try and prove himself since he jacked up 4 long 2 / 3 pt shots and also had 4 turnovers tonight.

[Supporter]

Why are we pointing out Marvin when the entire team sucked today. If we are going to point out anybody it should be JOSH!!! Josh is supposed to be our best player but he plays with no effort in games. The worst part is when the Hawks need to inbound the ball, he NEVER DOES IT, he just throws it to the nearest player. I know it doesn't really effect a game, but when you are the pg you don't want to inbound the ball just to get it back, its so inefficient.

[HawksFan87]

You guys are a joke.. Josh did not lose us this game, keep trying to convince yourselves he did though. And please don't stop making excuses for marvin's play either, keep it up!!!!

[Eddielives]

You are accusing Marvin of making up those rumors by saying "he sort of set himself up to be scrutinized" while Marvin has already denied them. You go out of your way to claim "Well I will believe the rumors until Broussard says they aren't true" which has to be one of the dumbest things I have heard all day. You have no logic in your posts at all for this thread. You are completely blinded by reason for this thread.

I'm pretty big on logic and reason so let me try and explain my position a little more clearly. First off, I never accused Marvin of making up the rumors. Where is your logic in saying so? Marvin denying the rumors doesn't mean they didn't have any truth to them? Do I believe him when he says he didn't say those things? Sure, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. But it would also, at this point, be illogical to discredit Broussard for making this a story without having, to my knowledge, any recantation or apology for making a bogus report on bogus or incredible sources. I never said the rumors are absolute truth until Broussard says they aren't so you are trying to attribute a lot of horsecrap yourself to me here in this discourse so please don't. My original issue with what you said was a asking another poster here to imagine one of their family members having just died to make your point. I think that is actually pretty classless even if you have a valid point in making Diesel, and myself I think to a lesser extent, feel bad for giving Marvin a hard time for last night's on the court performance. I'll concede that I should have just let the negative criticism of his game last night go unspoken given the death but again, don't deny the fact that on the mind of a lot of people were the reports, which have been denied by Marvin but not taken back by the reporter, so he was in a position where a nice effort and showing something on the court could have silenced a lot of critics who were laughing at the "alleged" report of his feelings about his role on the team.

[Diesel]

Well,

Being that Marvin cannot concentrate because of a death in his family, I believe the right thing to do is to bench him indefinitely. Those wasted minutes that Marvin played could have gone toward us building the confidence of one of our vets like Radman. Believe me, I understand death and that people react differently but usually, one knows if he's ready to continue or not. Marvin shouldn't be forced to play. In fact, I think he'd prefer it that way. Let's just let him have a longterm break so that he can deal with this and then at some later time, maybe 2 or 3 months from now, he can try to work his way back up through the rotation?

[Diesel]

Why are we pointing out Marvin when the entire team sucked today. If we are going to point out anybody it should be JOSH!!! Josh is supposed to be our best player but he plays with no effort in games. The worst part is when the Hawks need to inbound the ball, he NEVER DOES IT, he just throws it to the nearest player. I know it doesn't really effect a game, but when you are the pg you don't want to inbound the ball just to get it back, its so inefficient.

Maybe in a different thread. However, Marvin 0 pts, 4 rebs, and 1 assist in 27 minutes. Rebounds is just effort. 4 in 27 minutes is dreadful. Somebody said Marvin steps up when Joe is out. Well, Joe was out... is this stepping up.

Oh yeah, I forgot, this thread may get banned because we're talking about Marvin....

[Kimsey]

The last CBA has screwed this franchise up. 5 long years for MW with no termination clauses except performance ones (coughs yeah right). 6 longer years for Joe every penny all but locked straight into his account.

Marvin is a total mess, it's like a train wreck lock inside a time loop.

[Nicholasp27]

This thread is sad and I lost respect for several posters in this thread....a nephew is your siblings kid...losing your kid has to be the worst thing in the world and I imagine your sibling losing a kid is very high up there in a list of worst deaths for a person

[Kimsey]

Seems to me that IF ANYONE had something to prove tonight it would be Josh Smith since hes the unquestionable best player on the court for the Hawks right now AND he should still be proving his All-Star snubbing detractors wrong. Doesn't seem like he did much to try and prove himself since he jacked up 4 long 2 / 3 pt shots and also had 4 turnovers tonight.

Jump shots with time remaining on the 24 second clock.

1.

4 secs

2.

1 sec

3.

12 secs

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1 sec

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8 secs

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8 secs

The one with 12 seconds left was his typical obligatory shot attempt. Otherwise the offense was beyond stagnant. Teague had 0 assists and the contrast between he and Master Lin was "vivid". But I theorize atleast half of Josh's long jumpshots are at 5 seconds or lower.

Edited February 23, 2012 by Kimsey

[Guest]

I'm pretty big on logic and reason so let me try and explain my position a little more clearly. First off, I never accused Marvin of making up the rumors. Where is your logic in saying so?

You just said that Marvin "sort of set himself up to be scrutinized" which by saying he set himself up would imply he had something to do with being scrutinized. What is it that you are implying he has control over? The circumstances of the rumor and/or the death in his family. Those are the circumstances leading into the game. You never literally came out and said "Marvin started the rumors" but by using deduction you are implying he had something to do with those rumors. Maybe you meant to say "he was set up because of the rumors", which then I see what you are saying. But as is, the only interpretation is that Marvin put himself in this scenario (somehow) and the scenario revolves around death/rumors and I seriously doubt you imply he had anything to do with the death.

But it would also, at this point, be illogical to discredit Broussard for making this a story without having, to my knowledge, any recantation or apology for making a bogus report on bogus or incredible sources.

Blogs are inherently an opinion. There is no journalistic integrity for blogs nor does there have to be. I have my own blog, do you want to start using what I say on my blog as solid information? I can get my blog on some pretty important sites too, ones that even ESPN will link to.

I never said the rumors are absolute truth until Broussard says they aren't so you are trying to attribute a lot of horsecrap yourself to me here in this discourse so please don't.

I never claimed you called the rumors absolute truth. I am pointing out your flaw in treating Broussard's unnamed source from a blog as some sort of a solid reason to believe in something. If the denial of the unnamed source's accusation came from another unnamed source or a blog entry from Dear Abbey or just an equivalently bad source, then you have some ground to stand on. But when the accusation is from Marvin himself, it becomes rather clear he trumps everything else. If not, then I will start a blog called "Stuff Eddie Does" where I quote my unnamed sources about things you do throughout the day. You can confirm or deny them all you want, doesn't really matter because there will still be reason to believe what I say is true.

(Hypothetical example is certainly extreme and I understand you are trying to say ESPN reporting should have some sort of power of authority in this scenario. Its clear I don't think so because ESPN is not that great in reporting and it was from a blog.)

don't deny the fact that on the mind of a lot of people were the reports, which have been denied by Marvin but not taken back by the reporter, so he was in a position where a nice effort and showing something on the court could have silenced a lot of critics who were laughing at the "alleged" report of his feelings about his role on the team.

That would have been nice, but it does not follow that him not showing up should be fodder for people essentially calling him the worst player on this team and using the game as evidence. It appears that both you and Diesel are doing that as your evidence to affirm your position of Marvin sucking is that he sucked last night. Calling Marvin the worst player on the team is one thing, and in most instances I won't enter an argument. However, this thread is pointing to the first game he gets back as evidence that he is the worst player on the team.

[Tgrove96]

He's a professional...he showed up after a death in his family and it's obvious he doesn't wanna be on this team...of course he's gonna say he didn't say that when asked...these guys do have agents you know...that's the difference in Marvin and Josh...Marvin is smart and a professional.

[Admin]

Jump shots with time remaining on the 24 second clock.

1.

4 secs

2.

1 sec

3.

12 secs

4.

1 sec

5.

8 secs

6.

8 secs

The one with 12 seconds left was his typical obligatory shot attempt. Otherwise the offense was beyond stagnant. Teague had 0 assists and the contrast between he and Master Lin was "vivid". But I theorize atleast half of Josh's long jumpshots are at 5 seconds or lower.

Therein lies the problem in that our PF, who is among the worst long distance shooters in the league, has no business being out there anyway. If he were in the paint like he should be (which I blame him and LD for) then perhaps Teague would have had some assists (not making excuses for Teague by any means) or at the very least he could have had an easier shot with the clock expiring.

This thread is sad and I lost respect for several posters in this thread....a nephew is your siblings kid...losing your kid has to be the worst thing in the world and I imagine your sibling losing a kid is very high up there in a list of worst deaths for a person

Yep I feel the same way.

[Sothron]

This thread is sad and I lost respect for several posters in this thread....a nephew is your siblings kid...losing your kid has to be the worst thing in the world and I imagine your sibling losing a kid is very high up there in a list of worst deaths for a person

You aren't the only one. Apparently our own players having deaths in the family doesn't excuse them from hawksquawk agendas. This definitely has given me more perspective in how one can forget basic reality if it interferes with a beef one has with a player.

[willthepureshooter]

Look guys, we all know Marvin's a bust and will forever go down in Hawks Worst Draft pick. The guy has been given too many passes by our dumb coaches throughout the years. How do you expect a player to be a star if he was the 'Six Man' on his college team? Thats enough information on his up-side just in its own. He fails to work on any aspect of his game during the off-season. He dribbles like a high school center, and he's not even aggressive going to the rim anymore. He definitely lacks passion and motivation, which were big signs in his scouting report before he was drafted. Billy Knight dropped the ball, and Rick Sund dropped the ball when he signed him to the big contract. The sad part about it is that Marvin has no trade-value at all. There's no team between here and Beijing thats willing to accept his mediocre talent and monsterous contract. Lets stop pretending guys, we all know basketball. We fans see things coaches don't see until they review tape the next morning. Marvins drop in production has hurt this franchises ability to move on by moving him.

Lets stop making Teague the scapegoat for losses. I mean the kid can't get an assist unless someone finishes by making the shot. Now tell me, who's been converting those passes recently? The difference in Lin and Teague comes down to personel. Zaza has bobbled and lost a ton of passes from Teague down low. Marvin airballs his passes. Radmonavich didn't get back on the court until a couple games ago, but he's starting to slump. Joe allows the defense to catch up to him instead of taking the open shot. And Tmac looks like Scalabrine on the wing. Are you understanding what I'm referencing now? For a point guard to be effective he must be surrounded by players that finish. We don't have 'many' players that finish. This contributes to Drews terrible execution of the motion offense scheme. During motion offense players pass to one side of the court and seek to screen for players on the opposite side of the court. The hope is to create spacing and driving lanes to basket. Drew didn't design this team with slashers. He has designed a team with the shoot first mentality. Vlad is a three point specialist. Pargo's a shooter. Kirk Hinrich's a shooter. Joe Johnson's a shooter. Tracy McGrady's also a shooter that rarely slashes. Marvin can't finish in the paint to save his life. Josh is a slasher but gets caught up in shooting when open. TEAGUE AND WILLIE ARE THE ONLY NATURAL SLASHERS ON THIS TEAM! Am I keeping real with guys on this assessment? Totally hope so! Drews running the wrong scheme with the wrong players. You guys should take a look at this because its definitely telling of our horrible coaching. Must I quote Lester Conners from last night?? lol

[Kimsey]

Meh, when we beat Orlando, Drew called the post play for Josh numerous times inside the last 2 minutes and he produced something positive. Yet he reverted back to ISO Joe and we nearly lost the game. Drew has been the lead assistant/coach for 8 years now, blame him.