Hate all you want.....Joe is still thinking about you!

[Diesel]

WOW EVEN MORE...You comparing Stockton, Malone, and the Jazz to what we have put together!

Yeah, they never won either.Again.... going out in the 2nd round looks the same weather you have Joe and Josh or Stockton and Malone.Not winning a championship looks the same; weather you have Joe and Josh or Stockton and Malone.The comparison had nothing to do with Allstar credentials.. It had everything to do with how long do you go before you break up a playoff team that is not winning a championship team.

[Buzzard]

Yeah, they never won either.Again.... going out in the 2nd round looks the same weather you have Joe and Josh or Stockton and Malone.Not winning a championship looks the same; weather you have Joe and Josh or Stockton and Malone.The comparison had nothing to do with Allstar credentials.. It had everything to do with how long do you go before you break up a playoff team that is not winning a championship team.

Not even close Diesel. Getting to two championship finals is close and only a tweak away or a injury away for the team they were facing. Getting to the 2nd round just to suffer serious beat downs by the elite is at least one superstar away ( Stockton or Malone like needed) and quite possibly two.Stockton and Malone with their supporting cast were built for a Championship run. JJ and his supporting cast is built for a second round exit... Edited April 6, 2012 by Buzzard

[NineOhTheRino]

I will be bumping this thread all through the playoffs. I hope Joe proves me wrong. I've watched a ton of ball. I know the difference between regular season good and playoff good. Joe may ball out in the playoffs, but he's more likely to struggle again. Floaters and jumpers don't cut it against the better defenses. He's going to have to play with more ballz if wants props from me. That weak-feathery [bleep] he's been bringing will not do.To me it's simple why so many have fallen out of favor with Joe. Joe (slightly edging out Matty Ice) is the personification of Atl sports mediocrity. Joe does this. He balls when it matters the least. He'll get you to 2nd base, then get thrown out at third. His game is made for the regular season. He lacks the fortitude it take to make through a tough postseason. Don't give me "The other guys need to step up." As long as Joe and his albatross of a contract is here there will never be other guys to step up.If the Hawks don't make it past the 2nd round this year it's time! Amnesty Joe, trade Al, and allow Josh to walk. Do whatever it takes to get this team into to the lottery. Hawks will never win by outsmarting; they will never win by outspending. The tool at our disposal is being #1 at losing.

Edited April 6, 2012 by NineOhTheRino

[AtLaS]

When the team is like the current team and is a mediocre playoff team, I root for making a big trade to take us to the next level such as dealing for Chris Paul, Dwight Howard, Deron Williams, etc. We have too much prime talent to simply decimate the roster and return to futility.

I have wanted this for the past 2 years. This is my first option. But, upper management seems content with the current roster. At this point we need to make an all-in trade and take the risk rather than staying put and somehow hoping that this team morphs into a contender.It tells me that Smith may not be a hot commodity on the market as we've tried to trade him a few times these past two years. Next season he'll be an expiring contract meaning he probably won't demand a good return. It may be time to put Horford on the block along with a 1st and try to get another star player to pair with Joe and Josh. The problem is Josh may not stay here after next season.

[AtLaS]

You are right Dallas is different from the Hawks and shouldn't be compared:1. Dirk won in year 122. They have a billionaire owner who after spending way over the limit since he took over the team finally won a ring last year with their superstar player and also got bounced bu 8th seed Golden State for two straight years3. Hawks blew up this team and started over - Dallas did not or you may count the year before they got Dirk as their blow up year4. The Hawks have been in the playoffs for 4 short years in a row after blowing it up.5. The Hawks two best players Joe and Josh have been with the Hawks for 7 years- can somebody check what Dallas was doing in the playoffs when Dirk was in year 7?All I 'm saying is it takes time to get where we need to go. Dallas didn't blow it up when they won, they built around Dirk and added key pieces including a coach.

Dirk is a MUCH better player than Joe Johnson. His contract was smaller than Joe Johnson's. Dallas was consistently a ~60 win team. They made a finals run and WCF runs. That Golden State team (albeit an 8th seed) was a 50 win team, they weren't a typical 8 seed. The Western Conference has been stacked this entire decade. We have never been CLOSE to the level of the Mavericks. If we had a Dirk to build around, great! We don't, we need one. How do you propose we get a player of that caliber?

[Diesel]

Not even close Diesel. Getting to two championship finals is close and only a tweak away or a injury away for the team they were facing. Getting to the 2nd round just to suffer serious beat downs by the elite is at least one superstar away ( Stockton or Malone like needed) and quite possibly two.Stockton and Malone with their supporting cast were built for a Championship run. JJ and his supporting cast is built for a second round exit...

So you're saying that last year, we took a serious beat down from Chicago? Really? As injured as we were and became in that series? IF Teague wouldn't have gotten upended and hurt, we'd prolly have taken them to 7. IF not won out right. Again, those Jazz went out in the 1st round about 5 times in a row. You would have broken them up.

[Buzzard]

So you're saying that last year, we took a serious beat down from Chicago? Really? As injured as we were and became in that series? IF Teague wouldn't have gotten upended and hurt, we'd prolly have taken them to 7. IF not won out right. Again, those Jazz went out in the 1st round about 5 times in a row. You would have broken them up.

Your age and memory are showing man. JJ and Josh are going into their 7th year together. So yes I think it is time to break them up. Stockton was drafted in 84 and Malone in 85. Their 1st seven years together from 85/86 season to 92/93 season they won two division titles and made a conference final. They never never never put together more than two 1st round losses in a row together much less five. If this team could at least win a division there would be hope. But if we cannot even win a divison title, how in the hell can anyone have hope of a NBA title?

[Guest]

Who do you draft to bring us a division title? Who do you trade from the current roster to get the player that will bring us a division title? What free agent will we sign to bring us a division title?

[Buzzard]

Who do you draft to bring us a division title? Who do you trade from the current roster to get the player that will bring us a division title? What free agent will we sign to bring us a division title?

You are asking fans the wrong questions. We have no idea what type of offers, players and picks, teams are offering. What we do know is this team, as it is currently built, has not and will not win any division titles much less make a NBA finals. Maybe that is good enough for some of you, but for this fan what has been good enough for the last 30 years is not good enough now.If the ASG does not make any moves we will be the same team next season but a year older and the young teams on our asses will be a year better. Edited April 6, 2012 by Buzzard

[AtLaS]

Who do you draft to bring us a division title? Who do you trade from the current roster to get the player that will bring us a division title? What free agent will we sign to bring us a division title?

You have proven my point. This is exactly what I've been saying. Which is why I'd rather blow it up if we aren't going to make a big trade. There is no reason to slowly whither away with the same roster for the next 4 years.

[KB21]

You have proven my point. This is exactly what I've been saying. Which is why I'd rather blow it up if we aren't going to make a big trade. There is no reason to slowly whither away with the same roster for the next 4 years.

What kind of market do you think Josh Smith will have this offseason? Right now, Atlanta's biggest trade chips are Al Horford and Josh Smith. Do you think they could net a return on those two that will give this team a better "fit" of players around Joe Johnson to make a run? To a lesser extent, Marvin Williams and Jeff Teague may be able to get something on the trade market.

[AtLaS]

What kind of market do you think Josh Smith will have this offseason? Right now, Atlanta's biggest trade chips are Al Horford and Josh Smith. Do you think they could net a return on those two that will give this team a better "fit" of players around Joe Johnson to make a run?To a lesser extent, Marvin Williams and Jeff Teague may be able to get something on the trade market.

I think Horford/1st is a great package to bring in the next disgruntled star, similar to the Celtics trading Jefferson/fillers for KG a while back. Horford is a very good player but I don't see him blossoming into a star. I don't see a big market for Smith as he will be an expiring contract and due for a big payday. In addition, I just don't think there is a big market for Smith as we've tried to trade him a few times now. I think he rubs too many people the wrong way with his style of play. Now, if we can find a good deal for him, I'm all for it.

[Diesel]

You have proven my point. This is exactly what I've been saying. Which is why I'd rather blow it up if we aren't going to make a big trade. There is no reason to slowly whither away with the same roster for the next 4 years.

Blow it up is drastic. Especially when we have good trading pieces. The other thing is that there is no plan beyond blowing it up for people who insist on blowing it up. Does that make sense?Every year, there are several teams that have fire sales and "blow it up". None of them ever sniff the title.Let's look at some of our finalist?Dallas vs. Miami... Neither was blown up to the lottery.Boston vs. LAL.... Neither was blown up to the lottery.Orlando vs. LAL....LAL vs. Boston .......SA vs. Cleveland... This is the only case where two teams were lottery built... and even then... It took time.However, we are looking to follow the Wizards and the Golden State Warriors... instead of going the way of champions.Does it make sense?

[Diesel]

What kind of market do you think Josh Smith will have this offseason? Right now, Atlanta's biggest trade chips are Al Horford and Josh Smith. Do you think they could net a return on those two that will give this team a better "fit" of players around Joe Johnson to make a run?To a lesser extent, Marvin Williams and Jeff Teague may be able to get something on the trade market.

There's always a trade partner.

[Buzzard]

Blow it up is drastic. Especially when we have good trading pieces. The other thing is that there is no plan beyond blowing it up for people who insist on blowing it up. Does that make sense?Every year, there are several teams that have fire sales and "blow it up". None of them ever sniff the title.Let's look at some of our finalist?Dallas vs. Miami... Neither was blown up to the lottery.Boston vs. LAL.... Neither was blown up to the lottery.Orlando vs. LAL....LAL vs. Boston .......SA vs. Cleveland... This is the only case where two teams were lottery built... and even then... It took time.However, we are looking to follow the Wizards and the Golden State Warriors... instead of going the way of champions.Does it make sense?

You cannot go the way of Champions until you are a champion. These, Kobe, Gasol, Wade, Garnett, Allen, Pierce, Duncan are luxuries we do not have.The only championship team we come close to comparing to at one stage or another is Boston when all they had was Pierce. My question for you is, how do we get one Allen, one Garnett, and one Rondo type to come join us? Edited April 6, 2012 by Buzzard

[Diesel]

You cannot go the way of Champions until you are a champion. These, Kobe, Gasol, Wade, Garnett, Allen, Pierce, Duncan are luxuries we do not have.The only championship team we come close to comparing to at one stage or another is Boston when all they had was Pierce. My question for you is, how do we get one Allen, one Garnett, and one Rondo type to come join us?

You must have missed both manifestations of the Detroit Pistons.Anyway, I think it's easy to go the way of champions. Nobody was thinking about Dallas as Champions until they were beating OKC and the Heat. Look, teams go up and teams go down every year.We've seen the rise and fall of Memphis. The rise and fall of INdy. The rise and fall of PTL. The rise and fall of GS. The rise and fall of Phoenix. The rise and fall of N.O. The rise and fall of Orlando... The rise and Fall of Cleveland. The rise and fall of Detroit... And through all that rising and falling, I would dare say that we.. us.. the Atlanta Hawks have been consistent. This year, with literally no input from Horf, we're still right there in the middle of it all. Our core is better. Our bench is stronger. Our defense is good and our offense is less predictable... We're a monster for the East... especially if Horf gets back and can play close to 100%.The naysayer want to blow this up without having seen us at our full capacity.

[Buzzard]

You must have missed both manifestations of the Detroit Pistons.Anyway, I think it's easy to go the way of champions. Nobody was thinking about Dallas as Champions until they were beating OKC and the Heat.Look, teams go up and teams go down every year.We've seen the rise and fall of Memphis. The rise and fall of INdy. The rise and fall of PTL. The rise and fall of GS. The rise and fall of Phoenix. The rise and fall of N.O. The rise and fall of Orlando... The rise and Fall of Cleveland. The rise and fall of Detroit... And through all that rising and falling, I would dare say that we.. us.. the Atlanta Hawks have been consistent. This year, with literally no input from Horf, we're still right there in the middle of it all. Our core is better. Our bench is stronger. Our defense is good and our offense is less predictable... We're a monster for the East... especially if Horf gets back and can play close to 100%.The naysayer want to blow this up without having seen us at our full capacity.

I have seen us at full capacity ever since Horford was drafted. We are not a beast in the east if we can only beat up on the little kids on the block. Beast and fans of teams who are beast do not have their hottest topics being about who they do not want to play.Unless you think Ali and his fans use to talk about who he did not want to fight. I don't remember it that way. We are not a beast, we are more like the bully who should run like hell away from the beast...

[Diesel]

I have seen us at full capacity ever since Horford was drafted. We are not a beast in the east if we can only beat up on the little kids on the block. Beast and fans of teams who are beast do not have their hottest topics being about who they do not want to play.

Unless you think Ali and his fans use to talk about who he did not want to fight. I don't remember it that way. We are not a beast, we are more like the bully who should run like hell away from the beast...

I don't think we've have seen us at full capacity in that same time. First off, you totally disrespect the growth of Josh, Teague, and the strength of our bench and Hinrich...

You can't compare us now (if Horf was playing) with

Our Core + Acie Law, Mario West, Josh Childress, and Solomon Jones... Playing ISO JOE.

Really? You think that's us at FULL CAPACITY?

Or maybe you're talking about us now vs..

Our Core + Jamal Crawford, Jason Collins, Mo Evans, Randolph Morris, and Zaza... Playing Iso Joe, Iso Craw?

Is that FULL Capacity to you?

[Buzzard]

I don't think we've have seen us at full capacity in that same time. First off, you totally disrespect the growth of Josh, Teague, and the strength of our bench and Hinrich...

You can't compare us now (if Horf was playing) with

Our Core + Acie Law, Mario West, Josh Childress, and Solomon Jones... Playing ISO JOE.

Really? You think that's us at FULL CAPACITY?

Or maybe you're talking about us now vs..

Our Core + Jamal Crawford, Jason Collins, Mo Evans, Randolph Morris, and Zaza... Playing Iso Joe, Iso Craw?

Is that FULL Capacity to you?

Our full capacity now is not a whole lot of difference than full capacity last season. You may say wait look at Josh, well others may say wait look at what we lost in Crawford. Again not much difference, so no Division title and no Conference finals...that is the aurgument. So is this...we keep changing the minor players like we already have a Stockton and Malone. We really, really don't and if we did, we would have more to show for it these past 7 seven years! Edited April 6, 2012 by Buzzard

[AtLaS]

Blow it up is drastic. Especially when we have good trading pieces. The other thing is that there is no plan beyond blowing it up for people who insist on blowing it up. Does that make sense?Every year, there are several teams that have fire sales and "blow it up". None of them ever sniff the title.Let's look at some of our finalist?Dallas vs. Miami... Neither was blown up to the lottery.Boston vs. LAL.... Neither was blown up to the lottery.Orlando vs. LAL....LAL vs. Boston .......SA vs. Cleveland... This is the only case where two teams were lottery built... and even then... It took time.However, we are looking to follow the Wizards and the Golden State Warriors... instead of going the way of champions.Does it make sense?

Orlando wasn't built through the draft? OKC? Memphis? Chicago? LAC (although it took them a while)? Even our current Hawks were built through the draft and we drafted horribly. Just think if we made the right decisions.There are plenty of examples of teams that have blown it up and failed, and there are many that have succeeded. By the same token, there are lots of examples who made a trade to become elite and lots of teams who made trades that blew up in their face, like us with Reef over taking the draft pick Gasol.And, just FYI I remember that offseason very well. Boston was going to trade Pierce if they didn't make the deals for Garnett and Allen. It was either blow it up or make an attempt at a run, they chose the latter. I am all for the Hawks doing the same but we need to do something!