Hate all you want.....Joe is still thinking about you!

[Guest]

Orlando wasn't built through the draft? OKC? Memphis? Chicago? LAC (although it took them a while)? Even our current Hawks were built through the draft and we drafted horribly. Just think if we made the right decisions.There are plenty of examples of teams that have blown it up and failed, and there are many that have succeeded. By the same token, there are lots of examples who made a trade to become elite and lots of teams who made trades that blew up in their face, like us with Reef over taking the draft pick Gasol.And, just FYI I remember that offseason very well. Boston was going to trade Pierce if they didn't make the deals for Garnett and Allen. It was either blow it up or make an attempt at a run, they chose the latter. I am all for the Hawks doing the same but we need to do something!

Boston was 24-58 the year before acquiring KG and Ray, they were a losing team and out of the playoffs. The same with Seattle. Teams that got rid of their star players for the so called "blow-it up" were losing teams not a team like ours where the main chartacters have only been together for 4 years and are in the playoffs. Edited April 7, 2012 by JayBirdHawk

[Diesel]

Orlando wasn't built through the draft? OKC? Memphis? Chicago? LAC (although it took them a while)? Even our current Hawks were built through the draft and we drafted horribly. Just think if we made the right decisions.There are plenty of examples of teams that have blown it up and failed, and there are many that have succeeded. By the same token, there are lots of examples who made a trade to become elite and lots of teams who made trades that blew up in their face, like us with Reef over taking the draft pick Gasol.And, just FYI I remember that offseason very well. Boston was going to trade Pierce if they didn't make the deals for Garnett and Allen. It was either blow it up or make an attempt at a run, they chose the latter. I am all for the Hawks doing the same but we need to do something!

Just a historically note here. We had a segment here called ask the GM here at Hawksquawk when Babcock was GM. He came here and said, had they kept the pick, he would have taken Battier. Not Gasol.

[Diesel]

Orlando wasn't built through the draft? OKC? Memphis? Chicago? LAC (although it took them a while)? Even our current Hawks were built through the draft and we drafted horribly. Just think if we made the right decisions.There are plenty of examples of teams that have blown it up and failed, and there are many that have succeeded. By the same token, there are lots of examples who made a trade to become elite and lots of teams who made trades that blew up in their face, like us with Reef over taking the draft pick Gasol.And, just FYI I remember that offseason very well. Boston was going to trade Pierce if they didn't make the deals for Garnett and Allen. It was either blow it up or make an attempt at a run, they chose the latter. I am all for the Hawks doing the same but we need to do something!

Boston didn't blow their team up to go to the lottery. Boston traded one star for an allstar. And Ending contracts and picks for another allstar. They mortgaged their future on the present.Orlando was built through the draft... I thought I said that.However, OKC, Memphis, and Chicago haven't won nothing or been to the finals. Right now, they are just like N.O. has been.. and we have seen N.O. rise and fall.

[Admin]

Just a historically note here. We had a segment here called ask the GM here at Hawksquawk when Babcock was GM. He came here and said, had they kept the pick, he would have taken Battier. Not Gasol.

Ah the good ole days! Sure do miss Babs as being a fan friendly GM who respected Hawksquawk... but wow I don't miss him drafting!

[AtLaS]

Just a historically note here. We had a segment here called ask the GM here at Hawksquawk when Babcock was GM. He came here and said, had they kept the pick, he would have taken Battier. Not Gasol.

I believe you although I don't remember it, but that wasn't my point anyway. MANY teams have traded picks/young players for veterans and it has blown up in their face. The opposite is also true.

[AtLaS]

Boston was 24-58 the year before acquiring KG and Ray, they were a losing team and out of the playoffs. The same with Seattle. Teams that got rid of their star players for the so called "blow-it up" were losing teams not a team like ours where the main chartacters have only been together for 4 years and are in the playoffs.

I agree, I was simply addressing his point about Boston. I am ALL for a trade for another star player to pair with our team. But if we are just going to stand pat as we have been over the past couple of seasons I'd rather cut our losses and blow it up. This roster as it stands is not a contender. Hopefully this offseason is the one where the ASG actually makes a move.

[Diesel]

I believe you although I don't remember it, but that wasn't my point anyway. MANY teams have traded picks/young players for veterans and it has blown up in their face. The opposite is also true.

Yeah... but it has not worked the other way around.That's my test.What teams have traded away good players for Lottery picks and have ended up in the finals... Not winning the finals, but in the finals?Now, let's do it the other way around...Detroit gave us the Josh Smith pick and they won the finals... over the Lakers.The Lakers gave up Kwame Brown and a first rounder for Gasol and they ended up... IN the finals.We already mentioned Boston.People scoffed at Dallas giving up Devin Harris and PIcks for Jason Kidd... and Dallas ended up.... In the finals.Even when you look at Miami.. they mortgaged their drafts for the next few years... Theyve been to one finals.As you seek to find a team that has done it the other way by acquiring picks...or getting a better shot at the lottery (we've dont it twice already)...I want you to think of the trend. Teams that give up and go after picks become feeder teams for those who look for championships.

[tonegully]

I dont care what anyone says. I think we can beat any team in the league. I think our wildcard is Jeff Teague and the bench. That is what is going to make us or break us.We also need to come up with a solid game plan and stick with it, something we never do. We have the talent to win, but do we have the discipline to win.

[MaceCase]

Yeah... but it has not worked the other way around.That's my test.What teams have traded away good players for Lottery picks and have ended up in the finals... Not winning the finals, but in the finals?Now, let's do it the other way around...Detroit gave us the Josh Smith pick and they won the finals... over the Lakers.The Lakers gave up Kwame Brown and a first rounder for Gasol and they ended up... IN the finals.We already mentioned Boston.People scoffed at Dallas giving up Devin Harris and PIcks for Jason Kidd... and Dallas ended up.... In the finals.Even when you look at Miami.. they mortgaged their drafts for the next few years... Theyve been to one finals.As you seek to find a team that has done it the other way by acquiring picks...or getting a better shot at the lottery (we've dont it twice already)...I want you to think of the trend. Teams that give up and go after picks become feeder teams for those who look for championships.

The Lakers traded Vlade Divac for Kobe Bryant. I think that worked out for them under your criteria.

[Diesel]

The Lakers traded Vlade Divac for Kobe Bryant. I think that worked out for them under your criteria.

They traded Vlade for Kobe who wanted to be a Laker... AND they never had to endure a lottery season.Let's face it, when we rebuild, we go through lottery seasons. I would love to trade Horf and First for Davis.. But that's not going to happen.Instead, we'd have to trade away our valuable players, tank, and thus these masses would be satisfied. I believe in retooling but not rebuilding.

[MaceCase]

Vlade was a top player on their playoff team.They traded him for Kobe, a lottery pick.They went on to 6 finals berths with him being no worse than 1B on their teams.I satisfied your original question.

[Guest]

It was easy to trade Vlade for a pick when you have Shaq joining your team as a free agent to replace him. LA still had good players after trading Vlade - Nick vanExel, Horry, Eddie Jones, Ceballos.

[MaceCase]

Free agency comes after the draft so Shaq wasn't guaranteed. And are you implying that you can improve your team dramatically by utilizing the draft and cap space in free agency rather than standing still with a playoff core? What a novel idea, Jay.

[Diesel]

Vlade was a top player on their playoff team.They traded him for Kobe, a lottery pick.They went on to 6 finals berths with him being no worse than 1B on their teams.I satisfied your original question.

No... My question referenced a team going to the lottery.. not just getting a lottery pick.You take Shaq in his prime and you're not a lottery team.

[Diesel]

It was easy to trade Vlade for a pick when you have Shaq joining your team as a free agent to replace him. LA still had good players after trading Vlade - Nick vanExel, Horry, Eddie Jones, Ceballos.

No... My question referenced a team going to the lottery.. not just getting a lottery pick. Moreover, Kobe forced his way onto that team. The next year, they had 4 freakin allstars. Come on.You take Shaq in his prime and you're not a lottery team.

[Diesel]

It was easy to trade Vlade for a pick when you have Shaq joining your team as a free agent to replace him. LA still had good players after trading Vlade - Nick vanExel, Horry, Eddie Jones, Ceballos.

Actually, it was Vlade for Kobe... not a pick. Kobe. Kobe was drafted by Charlotte and he pulled a Steve Francis and said he would play for nobody but the Lakers. And they traded him to the Lakers.

[MaceCase]

The deal was actually done a day ahead of time, and it was Vlade for a player to be named," said Bill Branch, the Hornets' head scout at the time who still operates out of Charlotte as a scout for the Seattle-now-Oklahoma City Sonics. "If I remember right, they didn't even tell us who they wanted us to pick until about five minutes before the pick was made. So it was never a matter of us actually drafting Kobe."

http://www2.journaln...rued-ar-113126/Like with questions, history gets revised also.Very interesting read that involves our Hawks also being involved in that deal. Edited April 8, 2012 by MaceCase

[tonegully]

Who do you guys want to trade? I dont think we need a trade to win. Like I said earlier, the players we have are good enough to come out the east in my opinion.Its all about discipline. Small things like, give the ball to the point guard. Trust in your team mates. Stick to what works. All those are things we DONT do all the time, but when we do we can beat anyone in the league.Anthony Davis is not even good. What does he do that makes him so special? I just dont understand it.

[Joker]

Who do you guys want to trade? I dont think we need a trade to win. Like I said earlier, the players we have are good enough to come out the east in my opinion.Its all about discipline. Small things like, give the ball to the point guard. Trust in your team mates. Stick to what works. All those are things we DONT do all the time, but when we do we can beat anyone in the league.Anthony Davis is not even good. What does he do that makes him so special? I just dont understand it.

Dude plays like Tim Duncan when Duncan was a Jr at Wake. That alone is better than anyone on this team by a mile. He has better footwork than anyone on this team. He's 19. He has a 7'5 wingspan. He is quick in the post. He has a higher bbiq than Josh as a 19 year old. He can pass and draw a double team. He needs to put on some weight and he will never be a 22 ppg guy but doesn't need to be to be extremely impactful. Either way, no team who wins the lottery is trading him anyway.

[Dejay]

My view is that when the team sucks and has little future, I root for them to tank and maximize their chances in the lottery. I curse Bob Sura's name for crippling our chances to get Dwight Howard.When the team is like the current team and is a mediocre playoff team, I root for making a big trade to take us to the next level such as dealing for Chris Paul, Dwight Howard, Deron Williams, etc. We have too much prime talent to simply decimate the roster and return to futility.If we aren't improving a few years from now, we can amnesty JJ and crash and burn but with a new owner and a more dynamic GM, there is still hope for this team. I think a lot of the pessimism and desire to see the team rebuild is largely a reflection of the total lack of faith the fanbase has in the ASG.

Ditto. Cosign. Agree. This. I approve this message...