Hate all you want.....Joe is still thinking about you!

[Diesel]

Destroy and rebuild. See I'm not wired like you. I don't enjoy watching when I already know the outcome. I'd take a garbage team with some light at the end of the tunnel anyday. I'd rather have a squad like Min, Cleavland, or Golden St. There is hope there. For me 90% of the fun watching a team grow and this team reached it's apex two years ago.

But what if there is no light?What if we destroy and rebuild and we become the New Bobcats?What if we destroy and rebuild and we become the New Cavs?Haven't you learned anything from the elite teams?Haven't the Lakers proved to you that when you have talent and a good name that you don't need a lucky lottery pick?Let's talk about some of these teams that have won?Dallas... Why didn't they get rid of Dirk after years of not winning?Los Angeles... It's funny how they always get what they want and they don't have to go to the lottery. Gasol just dropped in their laps.. why? Because everybody wants to play for them.Boston. They had a talented team and when the time was right, they traded it all away for experience... Not lottery tickets.Detroit... They gave us Smoove for their shot.We're more like Dallas in that we're good but we're missing one or two players. It takes a concrete plan to win championships. I can't recall many teams winning a championship simply by drafting. The Spurs is probably the closest.. but then again, that's Duncan. I look at D-12 as being greater than Duncan but Orlando has not won a championship yet.

[Diesel]

I'm not sure why anyone is comparing OKC to the Hawks. It's not even remotely comparable.

OKC made the WCF last season with two 22 year olds and a 21 year old as their best players. They were extremely competitive in each one of those games even though they lost 4-1. They have a top 5 player. Currently, they have the best record in the West and possibly the entire NBA by the time the season is over.

The Hawks have had the same lineup for 5 straight years minus Bibby and plus Teague. We have never been higher than the 4th seed and have only been remotely competitive in the 2nd round once. We don't have a top 15 player, yet our best player is already on the decline and is being paid top 5 money for the next 4 years. Our 2nd best player wants to be traded. We won't have cap space for a while, yet it won't matter because according to Sothron noone would come here anyway.

Our only hope IMO is Teague or Marvin become a become a superstar player.

Comparing OKC and Atlanta is apples and oranges.

Our only hope?

I hate to put some truth in this.. but...

IF this were a 82 game season, we'd be on route to a 48 win season...based on where we are right now.. and our schedule suggests... we will be better than that.

Still, working with 48 wins...

That's good. Not great.. but good to very good... and guess what..

We have been the most injured we have ever been.

Horf has missed most of the season.

Joe and Josh has been out for stints.

Marvin and Green has been out for stints...

and yet... 48 wins.

Do you realize that people predicted that we'd miss the playoffs... (this was before Al went down).

When Al went down, people predicted we'd be lottery.

But yet we stand.. poised to be a team that wins an equivalent of 48 games.

NOW... Insert Al. Give us Health in the post season.

With that being the case, I like our chances. Our bench is stronger than it ever has been... Our offense is coming around and our defense is tough.

[Joker]

lol, you are comparing build a NBA team to the lottery. LOL

[Sothron]

Yeah. I bought a ticket in the megaMillions last week. Just one. However, that's the mentality of a lot of Hawks fans now. They have the mentality that if we were able to start from scratch, we could build a better team. What they fail to see is that we have tried this... twice.The first time, we got rid of Smitty, Mookie, and Deke... and got back Terry, Big Dog, Theo, and Shareef.After that, we got rid of them and got what we have now.What we have learned is that no matter how much money you have, it's hard to entice players to come to Atlanta... UNLESS you overpay them.What we have learned is that WE SUCK at drafting.What we have learned is that... it's important to keep good coaching.What we have learned is that... each time we change, we lose more identity.But guess what.We want another shot at the lottery.BTWThe lottery is fixed. Stern will never and I mean NEVER let us win.

I agree with everything you said esp. the last sentence. Call me paranoid if you want but I flat out do not believe the lottery is fair. Stern fixes the lottery. The Hawks have only had one #1 pick EVER in Atlanta and that guy never played for the Hawks. I still don't know how he was able to play for another NBA team when the ABA folded when his rights should have been Atlanta's. Oh well.

[Peoriabird]

But what if there is no light?

What if we destroy and rebuild and we become the New Bobcats?

What if we destroy and rebuild and we become the New Cavs?

Haven't you learned anything from the elite teams?

Haven't the Lakers proved to you that when you have talent and a good name that you don't need a lucky lottery pick?

Let's talk about some of these teams that have won?

Dallas... Why didn't they get rid of Dirk after years of not winning?

Los Angeles... It's funny how they always get what they want and they don't have to go to the lottery. Gasol just dropped in their laps.. why? Because everybody wants to play for them.

Boston. They had a talented team and when the time was right, they traded it all away for experience... Not lottery tickets.

Detroit... They gave us Smoove for their shot.

We're more like Dallas in that we're good but we're missing one or two players. It takes a concrete plan to win championships. I can't recall many teams winning a championship simply by drafting. The Spurs is probably the closest.. but then again, that's Duncan. I look at D-12 as being greater than Duncan but Orlando has not won a championship yet.

I don't know what's wrong with these guys. You see obvious growth from Smoove, Marvin, Teague and Zaza but yet there is no appreciation for their talents..None! To say that this team is the same team from 5 years ago is so retarded that it just show how little the average Hawk fan really knows about the NBA. The Hawk team from 3 years ago would literally get destroyed by the likes of Orlando. Not not only are we competitive with these team but can beat them even without one of our key pieces when we are focused. So I'm done with these whinny so called Hawk fans! My advice to y'all that complain about this product is to go find some other team to complain about!

Jaybird and the rest in the chat room last night predicted that Home court would be quiet with some scattered boos about something and we were right. So my new approach is to not debate with Hawk haters anymore but rather direct them to a team that has already done what they have suggested. "It is time for Y'all to go follow the Bobcats or Wizards" because your life will never be fullfilled by the Hawks. You've already made up your mind about all of these players and will never change your position which is "The grass is always greener on the other side!"

[thatsmydawg]

I don't know what's wrong with these guys. You see obvious growth from Smoove, Marvin, Teague and Zaza but yet there is no appreciation for their talents..None! To say that this team is the same team from 5 years ago is so retarded that it just show how little the average Hawk fan really knows about the NBA. The Hawk team from 3 years ago would literally get destroyed by the likes of Orlando. Not not only are we competitive with these team but can beat them even without one of our key pieces when we are focused. So I'm done with these whinny so called Hawk fans! My advice to y'all that complain about this product is to go find some other team to complain about!

Jaybird and the rest in the chat room last night predicted that Home court would be quiet with some scattered boos about something and we were right. So my new approach is to not debate with Hawk haters anymore but rather direct them to a team that has already done what they have suggested. "It is time for Y'all to go follow the Bobcats or Wizards" because your life will never be fullfilled by the Hawks. You've already made up your mind about all of these players and will never change your position which is "The grass is always greener on the other side!"

***sigh** So let me get this straight. The people that disagree with your take on this matter should just go away and root for another team becasue it bothers you?

Nice.

[Buzzard]

***sigh** So let me get this straight. The people that disagree with your take on this matter should just go away and root for another team becasue it bothers you?Nice.

I think that is what he is saying. I imagine most bandwagon fans would not need his prodding. Bottom line is any true fan does not want their team to lose. Some fans are more individual player fans though. Such is the case here especially with Josh. Keeping Josh at all cost far out weighs striving for a championship by at least a 1/3 of this board. And for me those fans are just as bad as the bandwagon fans.Lose Josh and we lose them. If that is the case, I say good ridance....I want the team I have rooted for my whole adult life to win a championship. The individual players that make up that team are not as important as the championship. Not for me, not by a long shot. Edited April 5, 2012 by Buzzard

[AtLaS]

Yeah. I bought a ticket in the megaMillions last week. Just one. However, that's the mentality of a lot of Hawks fans now. They have the mentality that if we were able to start from scratch, we could build a better team. What they fail to see is that we have tried this... twice.The first time, we got rid of Smitty, Mookie, and Deke... and got back Terry, Big Dog, Theo, and Shareef.After that, we got rid of them and got what we have now.What we have learned is that no matter how much money you have, it's hard to entice players to come to Atlanta... UNLESS you overpay them.What we have learned is that WE SUCK at drafting.What we have learned is that... it's important to keep good coaching.What we have learned is that... each time we change, we lose more identity.

Our 2nd best player doesn't even want to be here. Joe's contract is going to KILL this team in the next few years. His salary keeps going up while his production goes down. He will be making nearly half of the salary cap in his last two years. Please tell me how we are going to build a contender around that. Your reference to the Mavericks is completely wrong. They won over 50 games every season, had multiple 60 win seasons and many near 60 win seasons, had an MVP (who wasn't making as much as Joe is now), and made a Finals run. The Mavs were always close and they have a billionaire owner. If the Hawks had that pedigree I wouldn't even consider blowing it up.

[NineOhTheRino]

Our 2nd best player doesn't even want to be here. Joe's contract is going to KILL this team in the next few years. His salary keeps going up while his production goes down. He will be making nearly half of the salary cap in his last two years. Please tell me how we are going to build a contender around that.

Your reference to the Mavericks is completely wrong. They won over 50 games every season, had multiple 60 win seasons and many near 60 win seasons, had an MVP (who wasn't making as much as Joe is now), and made a Finals run. The Mavs were always close and they have a billionaire owner. If the Hawks had that pedigree I wouldn't even consider blowing it up.

this! Edited April 5, 2012 by NineOhTheRino

[Buzzard]

"The grass is always greener on the other side!"

Green is close but I think of Championships and teams that win them more in terms of the color Gold. If Gold is the goal every season, what is wrong with blowing up a team that has not won any in nine seasons? Should give them nine more just because we like losing in the playoffs every season. Hell man we cannot even win our division yet you want to keep trying with the same core... Edited April 5, 2012 by Buzzard

[Diesel]

Our 2nd best player doesn't even want to be here. Joe's contract is going to KILL this team in the next few years. His salary keeps going up while his production goes down. He will be making nearly half of the salary cap in his last two years. Please tell me how we are going to build a contender around that.

Your reference to the Mavericks is completely wrong. They won over 50 games every season, had multiple 60 win seasons and many near 60 win seasons, had an MVP (who wasn't making as much as Joe is now), and made a Finals run. The Mavs were always close and they have a billionaire owner. If the Hawks had that pedigree I wouldn't even consider blowing it up.

[*]If Josh doesn't want to be here, we get something for him.

[*]Joe's contract will kill us? Let's see that happen before we prognosticate it. Look at Ray Allen? Look at Reggie? Joe is not an AI type SG. His game is not one that depends on him going in and getting hacked up. Plus, he's a warrior.

[*]Dallas? Same team that lost to GS in the first round? Same team that spent years in the shadows of the Lakers and the Spurs? You can talk about pedigree all you want but a 2nd round loss is a 2nd round loss. And a first round loss is a first round loss.

[Diesel]

Green is close but I think of Championships and teams that win them more in terms of the color Gold. If Gold is the goal every season, what is wrong with blowing up a team that has not won any in nine seasons? Should give them nine more just because we like losing in the playoffs every season. Hell man we cannot even win our division yet you want to keep trying with the same core...

Wow... You would have broken up Stockton to Malone then?

[Peoriabird]

Green is close but I think of Championships and teams that win them more in terms of the color Gold. If Gold is the goal every season, what is wrong with blowing up a team that has not won any in nine seasons? Should give them nine more just because we like losing in the playoffs every season. Hell man we cannot even win our division yet you want to keep trying with the same core...

We have been one of the top 8 teams in the league for 2 years in a row. Other teams have blown up their rosters and have yet to make the same progress as us. The Clippers drafted in the lottery for years and it got them nowhere. New york blows up its roster seemingly every 2 year and has gotten them nowhere. The Timber wolves blew up their roster when they sold Garnett and haven't made the playoffs since. Utah blew up their roster and will not make the playoff again with no hope of improving in the future. Phoenix blew up their roster and is still paying for it despite having the best point guard in the league. Toronto continues to blow up their roster and is never any good. Charlotte, The Kings, the Wizards, the Warriors have all blown up roster and gotten much worse. New Orleans and Cleveland won't win anytime soon. But the teams that kept their talent and added to it go to the playoffs year after year.

So in other words, what many of you are suggesting fails much more than it works! Bottom line is that I enjoy watching this team play and when they play well and how they are suppose to, they are a very good basketball team getting better right in front of our eyes. So if you don't like the Hawks or enjoy watching them play, stop torturing yourself please!

Edited April 5, 2012 by Peoriabird

[AHF]

My view is that when the team sucks and has little future, I root for them to tank and maximize their chances in the lottery. I curse Bob Sura's name for crippling our chances to get Dwight Howard.When the team is like the current team and is a mediocre playoff team, I root for making a big trade to take us to the next level such as dealing for Chris Paul, Dwight Howard, Deron Williams, etc. We have too much prime talent to simply decimate the roster and return to futility.If we aren't improving a few years from now, we can amnesty JJ and crash and burn but with a new owner and a more dynamic GM, there is still hope for this team. I think a lot of the pessimism and desire to see the team rebuild is largely a reflection of the total lack of faith the fanbase has in the ASG.

[AtLaS]

[*]If Josh doesn't want to be here, we get something for him.

[*]Joe's contract will kill us? Let's see that happen before we prognosticate it. Look at Ray Allen? Look at Reggie? Joe is not an AI type SG. His game is not one that depends on him going in and getting hacked up. Plus, he's a warrior.

[*]Dallas? Same team that lost to GS in the first round? Same team that spent years in the shadows of the Lakers and the Spurs? You can talk about pedigree all you want but a 2nd round loss is a 2nd round loss. And a first round loss is a first round loss.

There obviously isn't a big market for Josh. We've been trying to trade him for a few years now. This season he asked and we still didn't find him. Next season he will be an expiring contract, we definitely aren't getting a big return.

Even if Joe doesn't decline any more and remains constant at 20ppg for the next 4 years (doubtful) the contract kills us. He'll be making nearly half the salary cap for a borderline top 20 player. That is franchise crippling.

We are not remotely comparable to Dallas. They were way ahead of us in superstar talent, regular season wins, and playoff success.

[Guest]

There obviously isn't a big market for Josh. We've been trying to trade him for a few years now. This season he asked and we still didn't find him. Next season he will be an expiring contract, we definitely aren't getting a big return.Even if Joe doesn't decline any more and remains constant at 20ppg for the next 4 years (doubtful) the contract kills us. He'll be making nearly half the salary cap for a borderline top 20 player. That is franchise crippling.We are not remotely comparable to Dallas. They were way ahead of us in superstar talent, regular season wins, and playoff success.

You are right Dallas is different from the Hawks and shouldn't be compared:1. Dirk won in year 122. They have a billionaire owner who after spending way over the limit since he took over the team finally won a ring last year with their superstar player and also got bounced bu 8th seed Golden State for two straight years3. Hawks blew up this team and started over - Dallas did not or you may count the year before they got Dirk as their blow up year4. The Hawks have been in the playoffs for 4 short years in a row after blowing it up.5. The Hawks two best players Joe and Josh have been with the Hawks for 7 years- can somebody check what Dallas was doing in the playoffs when Dirk was in year 7?All I 'm saying is it takes time to get where we need to go. Dallas didn't blow it up when they won, they built around Dirk and added key pieces including a coach.

[Buzzard]

Wow... You would have broken up Stockton to Malone then?

WOW EVEN MORE...You comparing Stockton, Malone, and the Jazz to what we have put together!

[Buzzard]

So if you don't like the Hawks or enjoy watching them play, stop torturing yourself please!

I love the Hawks but that does not mean I love watching us lose. Obviously you are happy with 2nd round exits and I am not. So yes in some ways for me it is torture but that is the true test of being a fan. 30 plus years of 2nd round exits and I am not going anywhere ....guess you just got to deal with me lmao Edited April 5, 2012 by Buzzard

[Guest]

I love the Hawks but that does not mean I love watching us lose. Obviously you are happy with 2nd round exits and I am not. So yes in some ways for me it is torture but that is the true test of being a fan. 30 plus years of 2nd round exits and I am not going anywhere ....guess you just got to deal with me lmao

Do you prefer for them to lose in the 2nd round of the playoffs or losing 69 games and 56 games in the regular season and not sniff the playoffs. I know which I would chose.That does not mean I am happy and content with the 2nd round exits but when I look at where were before we got to the playoffs for 4 straight years I will take this every single time. I like knowing that we have a chance to win a game as opposed to know we will definitely lose.

[Joker]

I'll rather us get O.J. Mayo or other with superstar potential and try to make this thing work. I would rather do that than blow it up but if we stick with what we got, I rather blow it up.