Diesel Speaks out on the Problem with Hawks Fans.

[Diesel]

The Problem with Hawks fans is that we are lying to ourselves...

What are we lying about?

The truth is that we are lying about the East.

The truth is that the East has gotten better and we have NOT.

There I said it. NOW, let's deal with it...

The East has gotten Better...

For Example:

1. Miami.. Miami picked up Odom. That's a lot. He's going to make them a much better team than they were last year. You can talk about his pot smoking and his days with the Clipps.. However, when you finish talking, He's still a gifted 6'10" player who has ball handling ability and can play just about any position on the court.

2. NY got Van Horn, Lampe, and Deke. Yes, you can talk about them getting Slower. However, they got a guy that fits their offense so well that it's scary. Now, NY has one of the only true Cs in the East. Unlike NJ, Ny doesn't run that much. NY will go to a Halfcourt style offense where they beat you from Outside and pound you all game.

3. Chicago got Pippen. Call Pippen Old. He provides leadership to an improving Core of players.

4. Philly got Big Dog. So Big Dog didn't work for us. What happens when Big Dog is put on a team that plays good defense and has a good PG. I can see the 20/7/4 with 46% coming back.

5. NJ got Mourning. Call Mourning sick... Go ahead. He's still better than 75% of the Cs starting in the league.

6. Washington got Arenas and Hayes.... This is a sleeper team of sorts. With Stackhouse, I don't know if they are as good without him. Arenas in my opinion will flop... However, Hayes might shine. Couple that with the return of Jeffries and they are better than before.

7. Cleveland got Labron James, J. R. Bremer, and Paul Silas. Much better than last year. Much much better. They might trade Ricky Davis or Miles, but they still are vastly improved.

The only teams that have falter a bit are:

Boston, Orlando, Indy, and N.O. but are we better than any of them??

The only teams left are Detroit, Toronto, Milwaukee...

-Toronto is a toss up.. I mean that got Bosh and Magloire. Does that make them better.. I believe so.. They are better than they were.

-Milwaukee has gotten rid of a lot of talent, but I believe that they have good young talent that's able to be competitive.

-Detroit is still Detroit.

What did we do?

We got rid of most of our offense and replaced it with a guy who does the same thing but doesn't score as much. We also replaced Ham, Email, Dj with Nailon, Diaw, JV, and Hansen...

Did we get better? If we did... I don't see it.

This is the lie that we tell ourselves. We say: OH, the Hawks will make the playoffs with the team we have.

Hello... We have the same makeup that we had last year. That means that we have the same problems that we had last year and the year before. Blaming Big Dog for all of our problems might have seemed like a reasonable solution for most of the Hawks faithful... However, what happens when we do the same thing this year? Who will we blame? Who's next on the blame game... Will it be Shareef, Jackson, or Stotts? That's what I want to see...

[cyman3]

we are very aware that the Eastern Teams have improved as well... we're not dumb diesel.

but wait a minute...

-Critics say Van Horn doesnt match with Knicks. I wouldnt consider Knicks BETTER... i think they are about where they were last year. Lampe isint ready to contribute. is deke even gonna start for them?

-Yes Washington got Hayes and Arenas... but have u seen Arenas play this preseason? Hes not a savior. Hes Jason Terry in a washington wizards uniform. He helps, but he isint going to make them a playoff team. hayes is looking really good. but the truth is...

-I (or should i say WASHINTON WIZARDS + their FANS) rather have 40 year old MICHAEL JORDAN than Hayes + Arenas. Best case, they end up where Mike Left off... little shy from the 8th spot. Did they really improve diesel?

-Howard is going to be huge for Orlando.

-Its funny how u see everyone else improving but not us? Did we not draft DIAW? Did we not sign Stephen Jackson + Lee Nailon? Ur assuming that GROB did nothing but help us... our main move in the offseason was to get rid of the problem. kinda like the Celtics. but was GROB the problem? I dont know for sure. In fact, im not willing to bet money on it either... but... We are about to find out!

[Traceman]

Best case scenario would have us improving because we have better chemistry. I don't think there is any question that our overall talent level went down.

I think Milwaukee's and Boston's overall talent level went down as well. I think everyone else improved their talent level. A lot goes into determining what makes a good team but starting with the most talent is usually a good thing.

[chillzatl]

a real turnaround and even they are dependant on a healthy Mcdyss. Without AD, they are trash again.

ALl those other players help out, but they don't make them contenders. if mourning is healthy , NJ will be great. But they were already a great team without him.

Bigdog will help Philly, but is he going to be that much better than what he replaced? No.

Cleveland, washington and chicago aren't going to be much better than last year. They improved but they aren't going to be a drastically better team. Cleveland has the best shot and it depends entirely on how great lebron can be in his first year.

It's really this simple. The good teams are still good and the bad teams are still bad. They may have made some additions, but they are all going to be fighting for the last few playoffs spots.

As for us, we didn't get better at all. We traded apples for apples. But to say that we don't have a shot is stupid. We are still the team that two years ago was expected to fight it out for a playoff spot. That was before we got bigdog and before our chemistry went to [censored]. If our chemistry is better and the minor additions we made pay off, we sure as [censored] can compete for a bottom seed.

[jjjohns3]

Yeah and we got Jackson,Diaw & JT re-signed.

And how can you say that Orlando took a step back???? They added Juwan Howard plus the have Giricek & Gooden. Orllando will be a top 4 team this year(If T-Mac stays healthy}

Odom didn't just have some legal trouble,he was also VERY injury prone.

Deke is OLD,& won't be the force that NY wants him to be,Lampe will be starting before the year is over,& Van Horn has been a journeyman for a reason.

Big Dog is slowing down,& as we saw last year,For every 2pts he scores,he'll give up 3 to the opposing team.

Lebron will not be as big a force as you think he'll be & CLE won't take the league by storm. They still turn the Ball over TOO much & as much as Silas will make them work They won't be a good Defensive team.

Jarvis Hayes is an improvement at SF for Washington,but we're just as ood as them,& I don't think Arenas is as good as everyone cracks him up to be.

Toronto is a good team on paper,but they have been that way for the last 2 years. I don't think thy have enough MATURE veteran leadership to make the playoffs.

Milwaukee isn't doing anything this year,no matter how much you wish that they're better than us,they're not.

Indiana is really the only team that actually took a step backwards.

~Peace

[Diesel]

Chemistry wise, do you think that SJack is different than Big Dog? Chemistrywise, the biggest mixmatch still remains to be JT/Theo/SAR. The problem... JT has no help ball handling. Theo has no help on defense. and Reef has no help in the area of Leadership.

Taking out big dog and plugging in Jackson doesn't do anything to help.

For analogy, how are we different than before Big Dog?

Before big dog, we had Toni. Toni had his faults, but Toni was a great player for this team chemistrywise. He could add Leadership and ballhandling. The problem was defensive. We had no defense. That's not just a Nazr problem... That's a team problem. Reef and JT are not good defenders. At best they are average. Take into consideration that the East was very weak in the last two yrs. What I have shown is that the East has gotten stronger. That means that now, all of our shucking and jiving on the court will not mean wins... But we will have to earn them. I don't think that Chemistry can earn us wins...

Why..

Well, aside from Chemistry we loss our best scorer and second best rebounder. Theo doesn't show me that he can make up for the loss in rebounds. Jackson hasn't shown me that he can make up for the loss in Scoring. What we have done in actuallity is made ourselves worse.

[Diesel]

You are exactly what I was thinking about when I wrote this post... Exactly. You are so happy with new pieces that you don't see that the new pieces aren't an improvement.

Let's look:

Grob vs. SJack..... Grob is better.

Ira vs. Nailon....... Ira is better.

Email vs. Vaughn.... Really a tie but I will say... Vaughn is better.

Diaw vs. Ham.... I really hope Diaw is better.

I can't recall who we loss on last years squad that equated to Hansen... I guess it's that floating 10 dayer that Babcock kept around ....

However, all in all it's not a situation where we have gotten anyone who makes us better than before... That's what I see... In fact, we loss our Best Scorer and second best rebounder. When that's placed on the table and you say we replaced him with Jackson who is just as turnover prone and has benefited from playing in Duncan's shawdow, then I say... We didn't do better.

The other thing is that you immediately attacked the Knicks... However:

the addition of Deke, McDyess, Lampe, and Van Horn makes NY better. that's a closed case. If you can't see that, then you're blind.

The attack on Washington is well founded... however, having Mike was good and bad. Good in that he was a great player out of his prime... Bad because he subdued everyone around him. I want to see what happens with Kwame this year. Notice, I don't praise Arenas. I think he's not worth the money at all. However, I believe he's better than Lue. Also, Hayes ain't all... I expect that Hughes will come out of nowhere too. Jordan's departure (and Collins) will start the growth of that young team. That's why I said, it might be a better team while Jerry Stackhouse is out.

The fact that you can bring up Diaw as being improvement is funny. Diaw has not proved that he even deserves to be on the court and you make him out to be some kind of Savior... Seriously, he gives horrid numbers from France. How does that translate to Savior for us??

Wake up Cyman.

I'm not saying you're dumb... I'm saying that you are lying to yourself...

[thecampster]

Before the draft I was screaming for the Hawks to move up and get Hayes. It would've taken this year's and (a protected) future 1st, but wouldn't Jarvis' 20 points, better defense and better ball handling (than Robinson) look real good right now.

I'm not afraid, Robinson was a problem. Maybe not "the problem" but a problem. And I like the guy. He's a great fit in Philly and I for one was trumpeting his coming here but he just didn't fit. Crowded lanes, leaving the backdoor vulnerable, bad handles in the open court, one too few passes in the half court. He'll be great for philly, just not us.

The Bulls. Anyone who doesn't see the Bulls making giant strides this year is crazy....some stats.

Tyson Chandler - Feb 12th - Mar 29 th inserted as starter and averaged. 13 pts, 10.5 rebounds, 2 blocks.

Ed Curry - last 20 games made starter, averaged 19.45 pts, 7 rebounds, 1 block.

Jamal Crawford - starter last 22 games. averaged 18.5 points, 3.36 boards, 6.63 assists.

Jalen Rose - started every game, averaged 22 points, 4 board, 5 assists.

That's 4 starters averaging 73 points, 25 rebounds, over 14 assists and 4 blocks a game (to end the year) and they just added Scottie Pippen to that Mix. If healthy, they may win 50 games...remember you heard it here first. They are all a year older, bigger, stronger and tired of losing. This team was good the last 20 last year and will be better. I think they could get the 4th seed. I'm not making this up...4th seed.

I think Boston performed addition by subtraction. Not because Walker was a bad guy...not hardly. Just too much of the same. They got a big body they desparately needed.

Ny won't be as bad as everyone thinks. Starting lineup before McDyess returns (I say around Jan 15th).

pg - Charlie Ward

SG - Allan Houston

SF - Keith Van Horn or Shandon Anderson

PF - Keith Van Horn or Kurt Thomas

C - Mutombo

Mutombo had 6 points, 7 boards and 3 blocks in 22 minutes the other night. He will start.

That ain't bad guys, but if and when McDyess comes back it's ward, houston, Van Horn, McDyess, Mutombo. That's a lot better and bigger than most teams in the east.

As for us, I'd like us a whole lot better with a healthy Crawford, Henderson and a Big banger...but that's just me.

[Diesel]

I consider Orlando not as good as Last year for one reason.

They lost Darryl Armstrong.

He was their ONLY PG.

Forget all this you hear about Tmac playing PG... Without a real PG, they are screwed. BUT I do like the addition of Howard. Like I said before, if Doc can train up some young guy to play PG, they will be a serious contender. However, he didn't have much luck with Vaughn, Sasser, Lue... Who else?

As far as your comments on Toronto?

Mature Vets???

I think Oneil will surprise some people. He's defensive minded. With a Healthy Carter... He will probably make Moiso and Bosh his defensive duo at C and PF. The question is what will they get for Davis. If they can get Jamison.... !!!!!!!!!!

[jjjohns3]

After last year,I'd take SJax over GRob anyday. He'll turn the ball over sometimes,but he's clutch & he offsets his TOs with better defense. Diaw is gonna be great,he looks so poised on the court. While Ham looked outta control when he was on the court. Ira is better overall player than Nailon,but Nailon is a better scorer & is more versatile(he can play the 3 & 4)

Vaughn is much better than E-Mail,it's not even close. Vaughn is smart & is a much better shooter than E-Mail. All the points you made for why one guy was better than the other was offset by the fact that the guys we brought in ,do things differently from the guys that we let get away. SJax is a solid 3rd or 4th scorer,Big Dog wanted to be no.1. Ira was a solid offensive player,but I thin Nailon is better. Ham did nothing for us as a veteran,but Boris has looked like a seasoned pro on the court. See what I mean???

~Peace

[pathway23]

lol I find it hilarious that Diesel isn't sure Diaw is better than Ham! lol all Ham can do is leap!

[JTFan31]

Diesel isnt that what fans should do, always be optimistic before the season start, if we are pesimisstic like you and hotlanta than there will be no reason for us to come to this forum and chat hawks basketball.

Diesel, you and hotlanta have every right to come in this forum and state your opinion, but can you for once say anything positive about the Hawks? you are always praising the other teams even those teams that we feel we are better than them.

so lets look at what you said.

Pippen makes chicago better? please Diesel, Pippen hasnt contributed for his team inb the last 2 years.

Hayes makes Wizards better? dude Hayes is just a rookie and not a highly recruited one neither.

Lebron James will make Cavs better? he is only 18 years old, no one at that age can improve a team that much, sorry dude it will take him 3 years just like everyone else that comes into the league that early.

Van horn makes Knicks better? where do u get the idea that he is that much better than Spree? Deke will help but he is getting old.

And of what I saw from Jax tonight, I think he just replaced Big Dog, all Big Dog has over him is his scoring. But jax can score pretty [censored] good also, and he plays very good defense and can take the ball to the hole as well.

[cyman3]

"I'm saying that you are lying to yourself..."

- its the whole addition by subtraction concept...

im hopin we go back to the basics and feed the ball to Reef.

Last year, we had a winning percentage when Reef had so many attempted shots (i forgot the figures)...

Im hopin its the chemistry that'll get us back on track. We dont necessarily have to look good on paper... we just gotta work within the system that Stotts gives us.

like the ORLANDO MAGIC team a few years back... had nobody. no big names... bunch of NO NAME SCRUBS workin their butt off... went on to .500 and 1 game shy of gettin a playoff spot.

If they were close to doing it with that given talent... why cant we do it?

If we play with HEART + CHEMISTRY (yes, this means lower TO as well), we will win that 8th spot. It kills me to see our team and the other team shoot the same percentage while the other team has 10-20 more shot attempts durin the game.

this is the NBA, we simply cannot allow a team to get 10-20 more shots than us....

[TROUBLEMAN69]

Diesel, that post is so full of garbage that it's not funny. The Knicks got better? Yeah, if McDyess can comeback and play like he did two years ago. They still don't have a point guard. Van Horn will get booed out of Madison Square Garden. The Knicks still can't put points on the board.

The Miami Heat have 4 guys who play the same position. Lamar Odom's jump shot has been broke for 3 years. He is turnover prone. Is he talented? Of course he is, but he is not going to help that team turn it around this year. [censored], the Clippers had more talent, and they couldn't get it done.

Scottie Pippen is a leader? Was he a leader in Houston, when he was whining about Charles Barkley? Was he a leader in Portland, when they were choking away the Western Conference Finals to the Lakers? The Bulls will improve because of Chandler and Curry, but not because of Pippen and his overrated leadership skills.

Unless Big Dog is helping Philly win the Eastern Conference, I don't see the big improvement there. He is still the same turnover prone, poor defensive player that he was here and in Milwaukee. If Philly can convince him to just shoot and not try to create, then he will help, otherwise I look for the same ole Big Dog.

Washington and Cleveland are not going to do anything this season. The team to look out for is the Toronto Raptors. If Vince Carter is healthy, the Raptors will be in the playoffs again.

You say the Hawks haven't improved because we lost our second leading rebounder and scorer. Well Stephen Jackson will average about 14-15 points. Which is a -5 compared to Big Dog. JT can average 19, which he did 2 seasons ago. That is a -3. Theo and Dion will increase their scoring averages from last season, especially with both receiving more touches on the offensive end. So the 20 points per game is not that hard to make up. Also, so far in the preseason I don't see teams beating the Hawks up for rebounds, so that is not a problem. Chemistry will be a lot better. Lee Nailon is a better player than Newble. Newble is a better defender, but offensively he can't hold Nailon's jock strap. Diaw will make up for Newble's defense off the bench. The Hawks need Nailon's scoring more than Newble's defense. Give this Hawks team a chance before you guys decide to knock the fan's optimisim.

TROUBLEMAN

[Diesel]

Sjax = Clutch??

SJax = Good defensive player??

:lol

Come on man. Stop lying to yourself. SJack is none of these things. if he were don't you think he would have gotten somebody other than us to give him a contract?? Denver, Utah, LAC all passed on him. Nobody offered him a contract. Dion Glover was closer to getting a contract than Jackson.

In fact, check out what Marty Burns wrote about Jackson and his situation:

In reply to:

---

So you start perusing the list of available free agents, only to find the usual assortment of journeymen, castoffs and over-the-hill types. Then, suddenly, one name jumps out at you: Stephen Jackson. Stephen Jackson?

You mean the the 6-foot-8 swingman who started for last year's NBA champion Spurs? The guy who averaged 12.8 points and 4.1 rebounds during the playoffs? The guy who poured in 17 points in Game 6 of the NBA Finals, helping the Spurs clinch the title?

OK, so maybe Jackson wasn't exactly the strongest link on Tim Duncan's chain gang. So maybe the 25-year-old basketball nomad, still coming into his own as an NBA player, sometimes

treated the rock like it was laced with plutonium. And maybe he's still massaging the marks on his neck from coach Gregg Popovich's quick hook in favor of Emanuel Ginobili in the Finals.

But, still, he's a pretty big name to be waiting by the phone at this late juncture, isn't he? "He started for an NBA championship team last year," notes Magic GM John Gabriel. "For him to still be out there, I would say that's pretty unusual, yeah."

What happened?

Call it bad planning. Or bad timing. Or maybe a little of both.

After last season Jackson had a chance to re-sign with the Spurs.

Although Popovich wasn't thrilled with Jackson's penchant for turnovers and uneven play, he was willing to reward him for his contributions.

The Spurs even offered Jackson, who made $700,000 a year ago, a three-year deal worth around $10 million, according to sources.

---

You guys sit around saying that Jackson isn't a turnover machine and that his turnovers will drop as he gets used to the offense. However, this is a problem of his and has been. I suspect that we will see a replay of last year.

As far as Email and Vaughn. I like Vaughn, I said that JV was better. However, that's not a hands down thing. I also believe that Diaw hasn't shown us anything to get excited about. This guy is NOT a scorer. Poise means NOTHING if you can't contribute to the team. What we are really talking about is a guy who may get 6 minutes on the floor per game. IN those 6 minutes, what do you think he will contribute? IF he can put up some 30 minute games with 0 points and 2 assists and 2 rebounds in French Playoff and Championship games, what will he do when the bar is raised in 6 minutes.

[Diesel]

Hold on, we need to clarify some things here...

First off, I'm not a pessimist. I am a realist. My message isn't doom and Gloom ala hotlanta... MY message is we need to be more honest with ourselves. If we were the Lakers and I had the same message, we need to be honest with ourselves, we have a good chance of winning it all for the next 3 years if Shaq renegotiates... would I still be a pessimist?

My point is that I'm pointing out what is true about our team without being overly optimistic like some or Overly pessimistic.

Now, what I see.. We have some very good pieces, we just have not gotten any better. My point in saying that is that The East is not a cake walk. Night after Night we will be facing teams who have gotten better. While we have not, the realistic view is that we can't guarantee playoffs or even think that we will make the playoffs unless we fix some of the problems that we have had for the last 3-4 years.

Where we differ:

I (the fan) see the Chemistry problems and the lack of improvement over the offseason and I call attention to it.

The fanatics don't acknowledge the problems. I don't know if that's on purpose or not...

To guard against become eternal pessimist as some have become, a fanatic needs to become a realist. Otherwise disappointment will lead the fanatic to hate the team he supports.

[Diesel]

Just for Clarity, I don't think it's James alone that makes the Cavs BETTER.. NOT Good.. I think it's the addition of Silas and J. R. Bremer that will make Cleveland Better.

Pippen and the rise of Curry, Crawford, and Chandler will make the BULLS Better.

Hayes, Arenas, Jeffries, and the exodus of Jordan will make the Wizards Better.

Van Horn, Lampe, Deke, and the return of McDyess will make the Knicks BETTER.

You can argue all day... These things are true.. These other teams have gotten better. Either by coaching change or by players. I also noted some teams that are not better... INdy and Boston to be specific. But overall, the East has gotten Better.

[Diesel]

I applaud your optimism as it relates to the Hawks Troubleman, but the truth is that we haven't done anything to make ourselves better. We are basically the same team we were 2 years ago with LESS ball handling.

Chemistry wise, we still have the same problems that we been having.

The great thing about Basketball is that we don't have to wonder who was right and who was wrong... It's not simply a matter of a logical debate and an academic exercise... There's a season.

[swolehawk2]

The facts are you don't know if this will be a better team or not. If you did I would take your asss down to the track and let you pick me out a horse. Just because we didn't add any big names doesn't mean this team won't be better. It is true we are a longshot for the playoffs...if we don't improve our D and TOs. A bunch or us here know more basketball than you give us credit for..we see the problems...but unlike some of you we see the positives also. I mean...if all our players suck...the east is so great...why the helll are we even talking about the Hawks or watching the games. The point... is it is your opinion that the knicks improved, or the Heat improved, or Cleveland improved....we know by now that a team may look ok on paper and suck. Frankly I don't the knicks will do anything...I have not seen anything worth mentioning from Odom in two years....and Cleveland has a bunch of players who play the same position....Wizards stink up front..Boston is weaker up front...almost every team in the east has major flaws.

[Diesel]

Where have I said that our players SUCK??

Again, your emotions are leading your posting. I said that we have done nothing to address our problems and that the EAST has gotten BETTER.

Where is the contradiction?

I would like to see the Hawks put the best team on the floor possible. However, at the same time, I'm not going to run around talking about how great we are when we have done nothing to improve.

BTW, if you took me to the track, do you think that I would pick a horse that has lost most of his races over the last few years because he looks Clean?

The Hawks have problems that are mainly chemistry. We have upgraded a bit from last year by addressing our need for good coaching. I commend the Hawks for Keeping Stotts and I commend Stotts for his choice of assistance.

I commend Atlanta for not trading away Reef because Truly, Reef is the player that we ought to build around. HOWEVER. As the year goes on, I don't think we ought to become to focused on keeping this squad together at all cost because this squad like last years squad has some flaws.

That's all I'm saying. Today is the day for the Hawks to make a realistic game plan and to choose a direction.