Amnesty of Joe Johnson could happen.

[Diesel]

We've heard the ASG spoken of as "caretakers", cheap, don't care, and want out of the business..If that's the case,then Joe Johnson will be amnestied this offseason.But think it through.They amnesty him high.Great, some other team picks him up and we're only responsible for a portion of his salary.However, if we're using good business management.. that means...Blow this team up and start over.Smoove is traded for a pick.Horf may remain because his contract is cheap.And we look to rebuild from the draft.Draft picks are cheap and they allow the ASG to stay far under the Cap and live off of profit sharing. Moreover, they never have to pay another cent of Luxury Tax.The coach is cheap and he would work well with young pliable players.Get a GM in here who can identify talent... Kevin Pritchard. Sign him to a 5 year deal. Renegotiate LD's contract for the next 5 years and give him a Budget of about 45 Million total and start the talk about building a winner by 2017.That would allow the Hawks to pay Joe not to play for us and also allow us to put a team out on the floor that ASG can call rebuilding.It would also take the fans off the ASG's back because the fans hate Joe and Josh but nobody hate Horf.So who likes the plan?

[hazer]

[media=]

[ryandauwalker]

I am definitely of the mindset that JJ should be amnestied from a business perspective. In no way will any other team pay more than we do now... I'm not a capologist, so I can't say what options we'd have at SG if that were going to happen, but it makes a lot of sense. As a fan, I want us to be one of the top teams in the East, but that day is about to end due to how our roster is set up.The bottom line is this roster will need to be reconstructed. If we amnesty JJ now, that's the only way we can prevent us needing to blow it up down the road.Even though it won't affect our cap, it will definitely affect decision-making in future years. The longer we keep him, the worse it'll be. At this point, we might be able to fill in somebody at SG to keep us competitive without hurting the long-term picture (with an unbelievable amount of trade options mid-season if necessary). But if we trade Smoove, JJ, Teague, and everybody else this offseason, we will be in the cellar for at least the next couple years.If we've learned anything as Hawks fans is that just because we are in rebuilding mode doesn't mean that our team will be rebuilt successfully in a couple years. Drafts are hit-and-miss.Through typing this post, I'm now on the JJ-amnesty bandwagon.

[Diesel]

I am definitely of the mindset that JJ should be amnestied from a business perspective. In no way will any other team pay more than we do now... I'm not a capologist, so I can't say what options we'd have at SG if that were going to happen, but it makes a lot of sense. As a fan, I want us to be one of the top teams in the East, but that day is about to end due to how our roster is set up.The bottom line is this roster will need to be reconstructed. If we amnesty JJ now, that's the only way we can prevent us needing to blow it up down the road.Even though it won't affect our cap, it will definitely affect decision-making in future years. The longer we keep him, the worse it'll be. At this point, we might be able to fill in somebody at SG to keep us competitive without hurting the long-term picture (with an unbelievable amount of trade options mid-season if necessary). But if we trade Smoove, JJ, Teague, and everybody else this offseason, we will be in the cellar for at least the next couple years.If we've learned anything as Hawks fans is that just because we are in rebuilding mode doesn't mean that our team will be rebuilt successfully in a couple years. Drafts are hit-and-miss.Through typing this post, I'm now on the JJ-amnesty bandwagon.

From a business standpt,If we Amnesty Joe, we will still spend meagerly until his contract is up. I.e. we won't go shopping for somebody new.So really, what we're saying is that:1. We Amnesty Joe.Knowing that...2. Him not being on the team puts us in a better draft position.This is the only benefit of the amnesty.Moreover, we get rid of Smoove also... because...1. Getting rid of Smoove will put us in a better cap situation.Here's why.When we Amnesty Joe, more than likely... we will still be paying some part of his salary anyway.I have to read up on the Amnesty rules, but if we Amnesty Joe, we are still responsible for the 90 Million he is owed.. I know this. If another team picks him up, we are still responsible for the difference between what they pay him and the 90 Million. But my question to any capologist.Say we Amnesty Joe.The Heat pick Joe up for 2 years 30 Million. After those 2 years, are we still responsible for paying Joe the rest of what we owe him or does that disappear with his new contract?

[capstone21]

There is no advantage to admesty Joe. We basiclly lose our talented player for nothing. Free agents do not come to Atlanta. There is a delusion that if we free up cap space that FAs will come running.The only significant free agents that will come to ATL in the last 20 years were Joe and Deke. Everybody else was through draft or trades. We should not amnesty Joe.

[ryandauwalker]

Your main premise: Our spending habits will not change much whether we amnesty or not.

[*]I think this is crazy. The later we amnesty, the more the Hawks will have to pay out of pocket. If we wait three years and Joe is playing poorly, we could pay up to $15 to $20 mill a year for somebody we don't even have. If we do it this year, somebody will cave and pay him good money and we'd only have to pay $5 or $7 mill at the highest point in his contract. You can't honestly think that an ownership group will act the same in both situations.

Now that's out of the way, the main reason for doing it is flexibility. Most people are underestimating the impact that Joe's contract will have on this team in the future years of his deal. We will be irrelevant if we don't do this soon; it's inevitable.

[*]Right now, we have the pieces in place to put together a decent team even without Joe. Due to Joe's ISO style, he flat out does not make his teammates better. He is a really good player, no doubt. But when he has the ball, people watch. So I'd expect other people around him to slightly improve.

[*]With his salary off the books, we could get a decent SG to fill in an get into the playoffs again (albeit a six to eight seed)

Two scenarios can play out from here:

[*]We are surprisingly competitive and get into the playoffs; we'll have some pieces and can make smart decisions on where to build, if Josh is worth a long-term deal, if Teague develops as a PG, and if Drew deserves another contract.

[*]We stink and have tons of assets to unload mid-season (Smith to a contender, Horford for the farm, Teague possibly), but we know at this point that it was not done too early. The most important element to this is that we will not be hampered in our rebuilding efforts because of all the money that Joe has on the books down the road.

[ryandauwalker]

There is no advantage to admesty Joe. We basiclly lose our talented player for nothing. Free agents do not come to Atlanta. There is a delusion that if we free up cap space that FAs will come running.The only significant free agents that will come to ATL in the last 20 years were Joe and Deke. Everybody else was through draft or trades.We should not amnesty Joe.

That's my whole point; we need to amnesty Joe because his impact will screw us down the road. We have enough pieces to put together a decent team and if we continue to pay him, we'll be forced into irrelevance.Buying decent FAs after we've traded everybody and still owe JJ $15 million out of pocket is not reality. And as we know, if we put all of our eggs in the draft basket, we could suck for a long, long time.

[Diesel]

There is no advantage to admesty Joe. We basiclly lose our talented player for nothing. Free agents do not come to Atlanta. There is a delusion that if we free up cap space that FAs will come running.The only significant free agents that will come to ATL in the last 20 years were Joe and Deke. Everybody else was through draft or trades.We should not amnesty Joe.

I am in 100% agreement.However, from a business standpoint, you amnesty him. Another team picks him up, you don't have to pay what you would have had to pay.Also.. You don't have to run out and spend money... You can find another vet min. Or trade Marvin for somebody.Here's the deal.Let's say we do decide to Blow it up.In the absence of a good trade.Trade Josh for #4... and get MKG..Then Amnesty Joe.Get a Big late in the draft with our own pick. -Fab Melo, Zeller, or FestusTrade Marvin for Cleveland's late pick... -William Buford.Pick up some vet mins... and that's it.Let Horf and Teague grow with the young group who will listen to LD.That saves money.It might not win nothing, but it puts enough exciting players on the court to tell everybody to wait.

[MaceCase]

Say we Amnesty Joe.The Heat pick Joe up for 2 years 30 Million. After those 2 years, are we still responsible for paying Joe the rest of what we owe him or does that disappear with his new contract?

Only teams that are underneath the cap can submit a bid to take on the remaining years of Joe's contract. Basically they would assume the remaining 4 years and the Hawks will be responsible for the difference in money from the winning bidder but they must assume the remaining years of the deal if they go through this process. Take Sacramento for instance, they bid on Travis Outlaw after he was amnestied by NJ and will pay him 3 million annually over the remaining 3 years of his contract while Brooklyn pays the rest.If no under the cap team places a bid on Joe though and he clears waivers he can be offered any amount available by any team for any amount of years with the Hawks being responsible for everything remaining of his old contract.

[Joker]

Amnesty Joe in two to three years.Trade Josh and Marvin now.Build a real team around Joe and Horford and go from there.

[capstone21]

I am in 100% agreement.However, from a business standpoint, you amnesty him. Another team picks him up, you don't have to pay what you would have had to pay.Also.. You don't have to run out and spend money... You can find another vet min.Or trade Marvin for somebody.Here's the deal.Let's say we do decide to Blow it up.In the absence of a good trade.Trade Josh for #4... and get MKG..Then Amnesty Joe.Get a Big late in the draft with our own pick. -Fab Melo, Zeller, or FestusTrade Marvin for Cleveland's late pick... -William Buford.Pick up some vet mins... and that's it.Let Horf and Teague grow with the young group who will listen to LD.That saves money.It might not win nothing, but it puts enough exciting players on the court to tell everybody to wait.

I am not convinced that MKG is not going to be anything more then an average sf in this league.

[Joker]

MKG potential is across the board. I see a young Scottie Pippen but he's a young kid and likely needs to play with a #1 option. A lot of guys in the top half need to be on better teams, they aren't tier one players. Not to say they can't be very good but it's best for them to be on an established team. Do not be surprised if the 10-20 guys are better than the 2-9 guys in this draft.

[Diesel]

I am not convinced that MKG is not going to be anything more then an average sf in this league.

We can argue about that later or in another thread.. I will say MKG = Vince Carter with more defense and heart.

[Diesel]

Only teams that are underneath the cap can submit a bid to take on the remaining years of Joe's contract. Basically they would assume the remaining 4 years and the Hawks will be responsible for the difference in money from the winning bidder but they must assume the remaining years of the deal if they go through this process. Take Sacramento for instance, they bid on Travis Outlaw after he was amnestied by NJ and will pay him 3 million annually over the remaining 3 years of his contract while Brooklyn pays the rest.If no under the cap team places a bid on Joe though and he clears waivers he can be offered any amount available by any team for any amount of years with the Hawks being responsible for everything remaining of his old contract.

I was using Miami for a for instance. However, if we Amnesty Joe, he doesn't have to get a 4 yr deal. He is a UFA at that point right?

[Bahamut]

Any plan that keeps LD for five more years is bound to be a success

[Guest]

With LD now back, Joe will be back, which I think also means "WLOC" will be back. Josh and Marvin are movable pieces. Josh only because his contract is expiring and if there is no guarantee that he wanst to stay and resign he has to be traded, wether at the draft or trading deadline. We need a taker for Marvin in the worse way that will bring us mutiple pieces to fill out the roster.

[AHF]

We can argue about that later or in another thread.. I will say MKG = Vince Carter with more defense and heart.

MKG doesn't have the hops of Carter or his offensive talent. He is a better defender and rebounder and has much more heart.

[Diesel]

With LD now back, Joe will be back, which I think also means "WLOC" will be back. Josh and Marvin are movable pieces. Josh only because his contract is expiring and if there is no guarantee that he wanst to stay and resign he has to be traded, wether at the draft or trading deadline. We need a taker for Marvin in the worse way that will bring us mutiple pieces to fill out the roster.

I agree about Marvin simply from a contract POV. I would trade Marvin for the 24th pick (Cleveland) in this draft.That would give us the 23rd and 24th picks. I think Cleveland is game because they have 2 early 2nd rounders... I like the deal because we can get some of the talent late. I can see us coming away with Festus and William Buford... or Murphy.

[Diesel]

MKG doesn't have the hops of Carter or his offensive talent. He is a better defender and rebounder and has much more heart.

I don't think anybody has Carter's hops... However, overall game offensively coming out of UNC, I think MKG is similar. Actually, I would even reconsider if we got 4. I also like Jeremy Lamb. As much as I like MKG as a defensive stallworth, I like Lamb offensively.

[hawkman]

I don't think anybody has Carter's hops... However, overall game offensively coming out of UNC, I think MKG is similar. Actually, I would even reconsider if we got 4. I also like Jeremy Lamb. As much as I like MKG as a defensive stallworth, I like Lamb offensively.

Would you take Lamb over Beal? I'm not so sure about that. I have Beal over Lamb right now as far as potential #1 scoring options are concerned. I like Lamb, but he's a little passive at times.