Ok Guys Lets Just Be Real Here

[CODHAWKSFAN]

Atlanta just have trouble by not having a culture of winning. When I'm in town i go to game but ultimately people want a winner..and the Hawks just really dont put much star power on the court...People want hope..."Hope is a powerful thing" If we can create a team that gives the Hope of a Championship then people will come out - - winning is addictive and fans would want to watch... That is what Ferry means by creating a Culture of Winning here...

I totally agree with this, hope is a powerful thing, the Falcons do a good job of creating hope. I just don't understand why people have have for two franchises but not for the other, the only one who has SHOWN consistent improvement (other than last year). Its almost as if the people in Atlanta HOPE that the Hawks do bad so that they can say, "I told you so".

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

This is basically a continuation of the conversation that was started in an earlier thread that was moved (for good reason).

Lets be real here about why people don't show up to Hawks games, its not about traffic, its not about location, its not about the time of day the games are played, price....etc or any of the other EXCUSES people give when asked about coming to Hawks games, because we all know that if D12 LBJ or any big name player was to come to Atlanta all of those EXCUSES would magically disappear. This situation is all about PERCEPTION, people in general have a negative perception about the Hawks, and if you have been around for a while, you know the perception (in some cases) far out weighs reality. If I fault the Hawks for anything it is not doing enough or a better job at changing that negative perception.

Think about it, whats your perception of Mercedes? Classy, elite, all of the good things that you can say about a car correct? Now what has been perception of Kia? Cheap, unreliable, basically the direct opposite right? What if someone took the symbol off of the Mercedes and put it on a Kia optima? Do you think most would know the difference? Kia has worked really hard (and I believe it is working) at changing peoples perception of their vehicles and the Kia optima a perfect example of that (I like the car by the way).

You take the Hawks recent 5 seasons and put that on any other sports team in Atlanta and I guarantee you a majority sell out. What you are seeing with the Falcons now is that perception starting to wear off "wait a minute, these just some regular ol crackers" (inside joke for those of you who have seen Eddie Murphy's Raw). AB has done a very good job in making people believe that he is bettering his team but the result remains the same.

I will admit that the Hawks have made some very bad decisions but as far as the product that they have put on the court? I can honestly say that they have done a good job.

I agree with you 100% and have said the same thing on the Squawk. Not only do the Hawks need a culture change, but the fan base does too. Everyone seems to have this mindset that nothing every will come of the Hawks and that only big market teams win championships. Last I checked, Detroit and San Antonio are pretty small markets. Hell, all San Antonio has for a pro team IS the Spurs.

Sure the Lakers get practically every superstar, but that is because the Lakers are consistently active in the market and are attractive for players to go their. Players know they will have a great chance to get a ring in LA and to sell their brand. The Lakers also play in a city that DEMANDS a superstar and championships. Once Kobe retires and if Dwight isn't there, who is going to come and see the Lakers? Heck, Jack Nicholson, one of the biggest known Lakers fan, was threatening to sell his season tickets during 2010-11 season after just two weeks of poor play. The Lakers have one of the largest fair-weathered fan bases in the league, second to only to the Heat. The Lakers not only need superstars to sell tickets, but they have to win championships too and the Buss family knows that. The Celtics have the most NBA championships in NBA history at 17. Did they sign/trade for their superstars during the first 16 of those championships? No, they built them through being great on draft day and developing talent. Even on their 17th championship that got Rondo, Davis, and Pierce through the draft and Allen and Garnett through draft day trades. They have never been known to sign the big time free agent. Plus, between 1993-2009, the Celtics were horrible.

If you look at the Hawks past, they have a pretty checkered past. We had the Pistol, Roundfield, Wilkins, Mookie, Mutombo, Steve Smith, SAR, and JJ2 and won 0 championships, but, throughout Hawks history, when have the Hawks ever had a capable FO to run the team? When have the Hawks ever been active in free agency and put in bids for the top talents? In the last decade, when has their ever been a time when the Hawks felt that getting to the playoffs wasn't good enough? The tides are changing and the Hawks will be an attractive destination in 2013 and for years to come...

[TheFuzz]

I agree with you 100% and have said the same thing on the Squawk. Not only do the Hawks need a culture change, but the fan base does too. Everyone seems to have this mindset that nothing every will come of the Hawks and that only big market teams win championships. Last I checked, Detroit and San Antonio are pretty small markets. Hell, all San Antonio has for a pro team IS the Spurs.

Sure the Lakers get practically every superstar, but that is because the Lakers are consistently active in the market and are attractive for players to go their. Players know they will have a great chance to get a ring in LA and to sell their brand. The Lakers also play in a city that DEMANDS a superstar and championships. Once Kobe retires and if Dwight isn't there, who is going to come and see the Lakers? Heck, Jack Nicholson, one of the biggest known Lakers fan, was threatening to sell his season tickets during 2010-11 season after just two weeks of poor play. The Lakers have one of the largest fair-weathered fan bases in the league, second to only to the Heat. The Lakers not only need superstars to sell tickets, but they have to win championships too and the Buss family knows that. The Celtics have the most NBA championships in NBA history at 17. Did they sign/trade for their superstars during the first 16 of those championships? No, they built them through being great on draft day and developing talent. Even on their 17th championship that got Rondo, Davis, and Pierce through the draft and Allen and Garnett through draft day trades. They have never been known to sign the big time free agent. Plus, between 1993-2009, the Celtics were horrible.

If you look at the Hawks past, they have a pretty checkered past. We had the Pistol, Roundfield, Wilkins, Mookie, Mutombo, Steve Smith, SAR, and JJ2 and won 0 championships, but, throughout Hawks history, when have the Hawks ever had a capable FO to run the team? When have the Hawks ever been active in free agency and put in bids for the top talents? In the last decade, when has their ever been a time when the Hawks felt that getting to the playoffs wasn't good enough? The tides are changing and the Hawks will be an attractive destination in 2013 and for years to come...

2013 might be getting a little too excited. I'm really stoked to see what's in our future, but even so I have a small feeling that Ferry could just be saying the right things. He basically kept the team at the same level of competitiveness while saving a ton of money. The ASG could just be doing the same thing with a new face. Make the playoffs, save money (though I don't think this is the case). So until he starts turning this team into championship caliber one, I don't think the average fan will take notice. Edited August 20, 2012 by TheFuzz

[CODHAWKSFAN]

I agree with you 100% and have said the same thing on the Squawk. Not only do the Hawks need a culture change, but the fan base does too. Everyone seems to have this mindset that nothing every will come of the Hawks and that only big market teams win championships. Last I checked, Detroit and San Antonio are pretty small markets. Hell, all San Antonio has for a pro team IS the Spurs.

Sure the Lakers get practically every superstar, but that is because the Lakers are consistently active in the market and are attractive for players to go their. Players know they will have a great chance to get a ring in LA and to sell their brand. The Lakers also play in a city that DEMANDS a superstar and championships. Once Kobe retires and if Dwight isn't there, who is going to come and see the Lakers? Heck, Jack Nicholson, one of the biggest known Lakers fan, was threatening to sell his season tickets during 2010-11 season after just two weeks of poor play. The Lakers have one of the largest fair-weathered fan bases in the league, second to only to the Heat. The Lakers not only need superstars to sell tickets, but they have to win championships too and the Buss family knows that. The Celtics have the most NBA championships in NBA history at 17. Did they sign/trade for their superstars during the first 16 of those championships? No, they built them through being great on draft day and developing talent. Even on their 17th championship that got Rondo, Davis, and Pierce through the draft and Allen and Garnett through draft day trades. They have never been known to sign the big time free agent. Plus, between 1993-2009, the Celtics were horrible.

If you look at the Hawks past, they have a pretty checkered past. We had the Pistol, Roundfield, Wilkins, Mookie, Mutombo, Steve Smith, SAR, and JJ2 and won 0 championships, but, throughout Hawks history, when have the Hawks ever had a capable FO to run the team? When have the Hawks ever been active in free agency and put in bids for the top talents? In the last decade, when has their ever been a time when the Hawks felt that getting to the playoffs wasn't good enough? The tides are changing and the Hawks will be an attractive destination in 2013 and for years to come...

CHURCH!

[ATLscrubLove]

Atl is a football town gets all jacked up for the SEC..... Not hawks

The bulldogs are trash lol. Its the one team that people not from here bandwagons though.. Guess its hip.

[Wretch]

I agree with so much that has been said here. And really, the truth of the matter is not as complicated or as miserable as some people make it out to be. Man, this thing is simple. It's about competition. People like competition. It's entertainment, just like movies and TV. The guys that get beat up, killed, lose...these are the ones that are forgotten.

The show is really about the fight that can go either way. People don't come to the games to hear Dwight talk or to see the pregame dance with Royal Ivey in the middle. They come to see the best ball players go at it. We've done a good job of putting good teams on the court. We have done a miserable job at TRYING to put the best players on the court. And you're not going to get interest like that.

...but, lo and behold! Every generation, our front office seems to think the same thing is going to work and it doesn't. Fans start believing in the team, and they run into the better teams, and they get beat. And year after year, there is this belief somewhere that the team on the court can actually get over the hump. Truth is...THEY CAN'T. Those of us who have watched it over and over realize this, but there are stubborn people who refuse to believe it. Either because they are just completely stubborn and hard headed, blindly optimistic, or just new...like we all were at one time.

Truth is, Atlanta has to put an elite team on the court. We have never had one, but I can hear the naysayers.

"We can't attract the top talent!"

"This is isn't a good market for them!"

"There are only 5 elite talents in the entire NBA and they're split across 3 teams!"

"The only teams that can ever have elite talent are New York, LA, Boston, and Chicago!"

"We'll never be able to draft an elite player!"

...and on and on and on. Dear God...it's just sickening and I am SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO tired of hearing that G*DDAMNED WHINING.

Let them tell it, man we just need to be happy with making the playoffs. Me? I'll let Ric tell it:

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeR78GY4ekc

Four words for those that can't get it or can't understand what is going on in that video...

NO WHINING. JUST WIN.

(There is also some swagger in there, but only real pimp G motherf***ers understand that shit.)

Edited August 20, 2012 by Wretch

[Sothron]

I don't know what some of you are talking about but some of the area around the Dome/Arena is very unsafe and dangerous to be in.

[lethalweapon3]

680 powers down at night Back then you couldn't get hawks games outside the perimeter at night; it was annoying to not be able to listen to the games on the way home... They shoulda had an official radio partner that doesn't power down during the games...seems like a no-brainer By outside the perimeter I mean right outside...Roswell, Duluth, Marietta, etc

Absolutely, that's the case even here ITP. I was in Sandy Springs and forgot I had the AM dial on 680 (no signal), around 8 pm. Rode all the way into Buckhead at West Paces Ferry and was like, "Is there a ghost in here... who turned on the radio?" 790 is no prize either, even in Midtown, after 10 PM. ~lw3

[HawkItus]

Man it is not about crime. People flock to Lakewood ampitheater and that is between nothing but low income crime areas. You can take Marta and never see the street to go to a Hawks or Falcons game. And as for the Falcons they draw fine. It's a stadium full of people outside tailgating every Sunday. The issue for the Hawks is identity. Our best players have been good quiet guys. They don't have a lot of flash and don't make a scene. You get some of these guys with personality on the team and things would change.

[HawkItus]

Downtown is the safest but I don't consider it entirely safe just because it's in Atlanta. I like going to the city but you can't be too careful. But yea overall Turner Field is in the worst place. I went to a Taco Bell in south side before the game... I was lucky to get out lol. These black bros kept asking for money within the restaurant while we were trying to eat. Plus there were some trying to sell me bootleg DVDs and CDs. Man it was a bad experience. Trust me, you're better off paying stadium price for food.

Are you serious? Chill with craping on the Southside. I find it offensive and misinformed. You spend twenty minutes and make judgements. You can get mugged in Cobb County, Kennessaw, and Sandy Springs.

[lethalweapon3]

That Philips/Ga. Dome area has gone from "O.K. Corral" to where you can now go places (Marietta Street by the Aquarium, Castleberry Hill, Luckie Street and Fairlie-Poplar) after games without looking like a police blotter waiting to happen. I understand the Omni years (before they dozed for the Centennial Olympic Park) were particularly high on the ratchet scale.I wouldn't walk to/from Castleberry Hill at nighttime (too much Gulch, too few eyes on the street), you have to know the best ways to get to Fairlie-Poplar, and I've learned that the less you look like "FAN/TOURIST" is stamped on your forehead the better off you are, but all in all it's a remarkable improvement over years gone by.~lw3

[lethalweapon3]

As many are saying, many folks use the crime/traffic stuff because they are more palatable responses to "Why don't you go to the Hawks games?" than, "They ain't won butkiss in over four decades!"But get a team here that appears to be well on their way to winning a championship, and the "excuses" turn into "battle scars." "Yeah, I was stuck in traffic for an hour, got into a tussle with a road-rager, but hey, how bout dem Dirty Birds, huh?" "Sure, a mugger grabbed my ankles, held me upside down and shook all the change outta my pockets... but never mind that... did you see Sid's Slide? Wow!" ~lw3

[CODHAWKSFAN]

I don't know what some of you are talking about but some of the area around the Dome/Arena is very unsafe and dangerous to be in.

Sothron, are those areas that you are referring to any worse than the area surrounding Turner Field?? If I had to chose one I would rather take a walk through the arena/Georgia dome area.

[AUhawksfan]

Media perception is huge. It's like it's almost "not cool" to like the hawks or claim you're a die hard fan, among the media or even amongst my local friends. I've gotten crap before for following them like I'm some weirdo...."you follow the hawks?!"For one, they don't do a good job of creating a sports culture for this team. The Braves had national exposure with Ted Turner and created household names and memories for guys like Chipper. Living in San Diego that is the first team people always ask if I'm a fan of, and usually people outside of ATL are fond of the Braves. The Falcons more recently turned the corner with Arthur Blank but I feel are starting to slide with the media due to their playoff showings but I think they'll be fine.What the Hawks need to do:-Use our history to our advantage - I want to see old school highlights/memories of hawks games more. We had some good players in our day: Maravich, Wilkins, Dikembe, Smitty, etc. Market our past and merge it with our future to create a culture.-Get a start player with some character for this city. Chipper is that for the Braves. Vick (love or hate) brought that to the Falcons. We need somebody with more charisma than Joe Johnson. Horford has a great personality but just isn't a star.It hurts that we've had some of our most pathetic performances on national TV so I don't blame the media for the backlash. It's honestly on the organization and it's obvious it can be done.

[ATLscrubLove]

The Hawks are bad on the prime time stage but the Falcons may be worse. They never win on MNF. Plus they can't even win a playoff game, I know basketball is easier to advance due to having a 7 game series. Football is one and done. I think that the NFL Playoffs should extend to best 2/3. But keep the Super Bowl one game. Not sure if that makes since but I think there needs to be more than one and done scenarios.

[AHF]

The Hawks are bad on the prime time stage but the Falcons may be worse. They never win on MNF. Plus they can't even win a playoff game, I know basketball is easier to advance due to having a 7 game series. Football is one and done. I think that the NFL Playoffs should extend to best 2/3. But keep the Super Bowl one game. Not sure if that makes since but I think there needs to be more than one and done scenarios.

It is a subject for a different thread, but no level of football does multiple games series because of the injury concerns for the players. Right now, the most playoffs games a team can play are 4 (wildcard, conference semifinal, conference final, superbowl). That allows 12 playoff teams. If you cut the number of playoff teams from 12 to 4 and went to a best of 3 format, you could have teams playing 6 games to win the superbowl and you would now be eliminating 8 teams from getting playoff revenues that do under the current system. It would also mean up to 3 consecutive weeks of teams facing off in the same matchups and perhaps 6 weeks with only 3 different team parings. It isn't remotely practical to do anything other the one and done with the nature of the sport.

[ATLscrubLove]

It is a subject for a different thread, but no level of football does multiple games series because of the injury concerns for the players. Right now, the most playoffs games a team can play are 4 (wildcard, conference semifinal, conference final, superbowl). That allows 12 playoff teams. If you cut the number of playoff teams from 12 to 4 and went to a best of 3 format, you could have teams playing 6 games to win the superbowl and you would now be eliminating 8 teams from getting playoff revenues that do under the current system. It would also mean up to 3 consecutive weeks of teams facing off in the same matchups and perhaps 6 weeks with only 3 different team parings. It isn't remotely practical to do anything other the one and done with the nature of the sport.

Yea it wouldn't make much since due to the nature of the sport. I just wish that it would change up a bit.

[Sothron]

Sothron, are those areas that you are referring to any worse than the area surrounding Turner Field?? If I had to chose one I would rather take a walk through the arena/Georgia dome area.

Turner Field isn't in a good spot either. Frankly I wish the city would do a better job of cleaning those areas up. I know when I take family to go see Atlanta teams play that depending on which way I'm driving there it feels like driving through Mad Max. There's at least a six block radius I think its the south of Arena/Dome that you couldn't pay me to walk through alone at night.

[ATLscrubLove]

Turner Field isn't in a good spot either. Frankly I wish the city would do a better job of cleaning those areas up. I know when I take family to go see Atlanta teams play that depending on which way I'm driving there it feels like driving through Mad Max. There's at least a six block radius I think its the south of Arena/Dome that you couldn't pay me to walk through alone at night.

No one has put in an effort to clean up the city since the Olympics in '96. They did a good job too, got all the hobos off the street and actually cleaned it up a bit. That was one month that MLK was slightly safe.

[Dejay]

I agree with so much that has been said here. And really, the truth of the matter is not as complicated or as miserable as some people make it out to be. Man, this thing is simple. It's about competition. People like competition. It's entertainment, just like movies and TV. The guys that get beat up, killed, lose...these are the ones that are forgotten.

The show is really about the fight that can go either way. People don't come to the games to hear Dwight talk or to see the pregame dance with Royal Ivey in the middle. They come to see the best ball players go at it. We've done a good job of putting good teams on the court. We have done a miserable job at TRYING to put the best players on the court. And you're not going to get interest like that.

...but, lo and behold! Every generation, our front office seems to think the same thing is going to work and it doesn't. Fans start believing in the team, and they run into the better teams, and they get beat. And year after year, there is this belief somewhere that the team on the court can actually get over the hump. Truth is...THEY CAN'T. Those of us who have watched it over and over realize this, but there are stubborn people who refuse to believe it. Either because they are just completely stubborn and hard headed, blindly optimistic, or just new...like we all were at one time.

Truth is, Atlanta has to put an elite team on the court. We have never had one, but I can hear the naysayers.

"We can't attract the top talent!"

"This is isn't a good market for them!"

"There are only 5 elite talents in the entire NBA and they're split across 3 teams!"

"The only teams that can ever have elite talent are New York, LA, Boston, and Chicago!"

"We'll never be able to draft an elite player!"

...and on and on and on. Dear God...it's just sickening and I am SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO tired of hearing that G*DDAMNED WHINING.

Let them tell it, man we just need to be happy with making the playoffs. Me? I'll let Ric tell it:

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeR78GY4ekc

Four words for those that can't get it or can't understand what is going on in that video...

NO WHINING. JUST WIN.

(There is also some swagger in there, but only real pimp G motherf***ers understand that shit.)

There isn't enough likes I can put on this post. I was in the old Techwood studios when Slick Ric cut that monster promo after he turned on Dusty. Real men stay up and elite teams don't cry about who don't want to play for their team.

Enough with the crying and whining over what guys we can't get because of the cap while other teams are bringing in REAL players. If you want to be taken seriously, you have to start bringing those elite-level players in, so you have better than just a puncher's shot at winning. Enough with having Dr. Frankenstein draft guys with long arms, 'upside' and little else. Enough with the team digging into the recycle bin for guys who were good a decade ago. Its time to fight fire with fire...