Josh Smith has to go

[coachx]

The over and back blunder was the error that kept the Knicks alive. All he had to do was give the ball to Teague.

Your wrong here. The shot clock expired with the ball in the air......the illegal screen was due to Teage moving before the screener was set.I'm the first to pint out his flaws and mistakes but these were not his fault.In reality it was Teague who wa hot. He should have shot the ball rather then throw it to Josh, at the 3 point line, with 2 seconds on the shot clock.

[MrMeltdown]

Your wrong here. The shot clock expired with the ball in the air......the illegal screen was due to Teage moving before the screener was set.I'm the first to pint out his flaws and mistakes but these were not his fault.In reality it was Teague who wa hot. He should have shot the ball rather then throw it to Josh, at the 3 point line, with 2 seconds on the shot clock.

You are completely off base and it has been proven. There is a picture floating around here that shows this. As for the over and back and you are even more in the wrong because Josh has no business bringing the ball up to start with.

Edited January 29, 2013 by MrMeltdown

[Admin]

Your wrong here. The shot clock expired with the ball in the air......the illegal screen was due to Teage moving before the screener was set.I'm the first to pint out his flaws and mistakes but these were not his fault.In reality it was Teague who wa hot. He should have shot the ball rather then throw it to Josh, at the 3 point line, with 2 seconds on the shot clock.

Coach go back and watch it again, Josh gets the ball with 4 seconds left and could have easily passed to Deshawn but he took his 2 seconds windup and then fired away and if I remember right the clock expires just as Al is rebounding the ball. Regarding Teague I think the play was drawn up to either get the layup or sneak the pass under the basket to Al but he was well defended. No way could Teague have shot or passed to Al so he passed to Josh who should have zipped it over to Deshawn. Maybe Deshawn still misses but we will never know.

[benhillboy]

Monta and Josh are the prime examples of how important college basketball is. You gotta believe that good instruction for a couple years at an ACC school would have Josh in a couple All-Star games by now and probably on a contender. The money he missed by going would be more than compensated for on the back end by this max contract he feels he's worth. It's actually a miracle he's gotten this far totally lacking fundamentals and IQ. I listen to the ESPN team do games, and they point out little things on damn near every play that would have Josh like "huh?"

Edited January 29, 2013 by benhillboy

[JackB1]

Josh actually played a good game tonight. That illegal screen was tough in crunch time. He was forced to take that 3 at the end.Hawks got beat by a more talented team in a slug fest.

I disagree. He got the ball with 4 seconds which is enough to take it too the hole...even make a few fakes. The thing that makes me crazy is that Josh will backup to the 3 pt line when the clock is going down because then he can jack up a 3 that can't be blamed as much. Just watch him when a teammate has the ball and the clock goes below 5 secs....he drifts out to the arc all the time. What's the point? How about posting up and calling for the ball? Josh just hates contact and avoids it at all costs.

[JackB1]

The main illustration of Josh's intellectual ineptitude is his inability to even convert that huge and-1 after the dunk, yet continuously shooting long jumpers, taking opportunities away from one of the better three point shooters of his era, not to mention Teague, Stephenson, and Harris, who all look like Larry Bird compared to Josh. And declaring yourself a max player? Any clown knows that one of the main traits of max players is to get to the line a lot and hit most. He is afraid to get to the line, and can barely hit any. He's run his course here. A change of scenery will be great for both parties. It will be as easy for Ferry to increase our team BBIQ exponentially by trading Josh just as easily as he replaced Joe with Kyle and Lou to improve offensive efficiency and save tens of millions. The sooner he gets it done, the better for most Hawks fans. We simply need more intelligence, team play, and offensive rebounding from our starting 4.

[yungsta]

I disagree. He got the ball with 4 seconds which is enough to take it too the hole...even make a few fakes. The thing that makes me crazy is that Josh will backup to the 3 pt line when the clock is going down because then he can jack up a 3 that can't be blamed as much. Just watch him when a teammate has the ball and the clock goes below 5 secs....he drifts out to the arc all the time. What's the point? How about posting up and calling for the ball? Josh just hates contact and avoids it at all costs.

THANK YOU for someone recognizing this. He puts himself in position to jack 3's ALL THE TIME. Whenever he sets a screen he pops to the three point line, whenever he doesnt have the ball he wonders to the three point line, etc......

I have seen plenty of times when he is at the three point line or a step or two in the arc teammates (especially teague) will ignore him and wont pass it to him because they know hes going to jack it up from that spot.

In that situation the only reason he got the ball was because he was the only easy option to pass it to.

Edited January 29, 2013 by yungsta

[MrMeltdown]

Monta and Josh are the prime examples of how important college basketball is. You gotta believe that good instruction for a couple years at an ACC school would have Josh in a couple All-Star games by now and probably on a contender. The money he missed by going would be more than compensated for on the back end by this max contract he feels he's worth. It's actually a miracle he's gotten this far totally lacking fundamentals and IQ. I listen to the ESPN team do games, and they point out little things on damn near every play that would have Josh like "huh?"

I think Josh had signed up to Indiana when Bob Knight was there. Josh would be in jail or dead dealing with Bob Knight.

[coachx]

You are completely off base and it has been proven. There is a picture floating around here that shows this. As for the over and back and you are even more in the wrong because Josh has no business bringing the ball up to start with.

not the over and back......the moving screen call where Teague moved before the screener was set.We are talking about 2 different plays. You ignore it was Josh who got the steal before that over and back.......it was a great play by Melo on the over and back.....granted Josh should have passed earlier.I've been barking to trade Josh for years..........I just don't want to give him away for crap and try to not over react. I'd rather have cap space or pull what Denver did with NeNe in order to maximize our poker chips. I really wanted to trade him at last seasons trade deadline or in the prior off season b/c that is when I believe he had more trade value.Go look at the 2nd page of the game thread. I was pointing out Josh's mistakes in our early possessions of that game. Edited January 29, 2013 by coachx

[coachx]

Just went back and looked at the last play. Josh saved the ball from going out of bounds with one hand and was off balance with only 1 foot on the ground. He had JR Smith closing in on him taking away the passing angle to DS. By the time he had 2 feet on the ground there was less then 3 seconds on the clock. Teague had Chandler beat off the dribble and should have taken the layup.....he was hot and has to be more aggressive. With Lou out Teague has to be our closer.Smith makes dumb plays every game but that play was not one of them in my opinion.....and neither was the illegal screen.The play call was beautiful.....both Al and Josh were there to set a screen for Teague. It was Teague choice to go left or right as there was screener on both sides. Al ended up with the mismatch with Felton in the paint and Teague missed the pass to take advantage of the mismatch. Go watch it.

Edited January 29, 2013 by coachx

[Jody23]

Your wrong here. The shot clock expired with the ball in the air......the illegal screen was due to Teage moving before the screener was set.I'm the first to pint out his flaws and mistakes but these were not his fault.In reality it was Teague who wa hot. He should have shot the ball rather then throw it to Josh, at the 3 point line, with 2 seconds on the shot clock.

No, I'm not wrong. The Knicks didn't get back defensively on that play, meaning the Hawks had numbers and an ample opportunity to put a strangle hold on the game with a score, maybe a three since Korver was already downcourt. Instead of giving the ball to Teague to push the ball down floor, Smith looks Teague off and proceeds to slow pace the ball to the corner of center court and commits an over and back, costing the Hawks another chance to grab control of the game. That error was without question a pivotal mistake.

[JackB1]

Just went back and looked at the last play. Josh saved the ball from going out of bounds with one hand and was off balance with only 1 foot on the ground. He had JR Smith closing in on him taking away the passing angle to DS. By the time he had 2 feet on the ground there was less then 3 seconds on the clock. Teague had Chandler beat off the dribble and should have taken the layup.....he was hot and has to be more aggressive. With Lou out Teague has to be our closer.Smith makes dumb plays every game but that play was not one of them in my opinion.....and neither was the illegal screen.The play call was beautiful.....both Al and Josh were there to set a screen for Teague. It was Teague choice to go left or right as there was screener on both sides. Al ended up with the mismatch with Felton in the paint and Teague missed the pass to take advantage of the mismatch. Go watch it.

Teague should never pass out of the paint to Josh at the 3 pt line. He has to have more confidence in his own ability. Teague has so much talent, but he doesn't seem to know it. If he ever wakes up and play like he WANTS THE BALL AT CRUNCH TIME...watch out! He only shows glimpses of this and needs to realize we need him to lead this team and TAKE CHARGE OUT THERE!

[Admin]

Just went back and looked at the last play. Josh saved the ball from going out of bounds with one hand and was off balance with only 1 foot on the ground. He had JR Smith closing in on him taking away the passing angle to DS. By the time he had 2 feet on the ground there was less then 3 seconds on the clock.Teague had Chandler beat off the dribble and should have taken the layup.....he was hot and has to be more aggressive. With Lou out Teague has to be our closer.Smith makes dumb plays every game but that play was not one of them in my opinion.....and neither was the illegal screen.The play call was beautiful.....both Al and Josh were there to set a screen for Teague. It was Teague choice to go left or right as there was screener on both sides. Al ended up with the mismatch with Felton in the paint and Teague missed the pass to take advantage of the mismatch. Go watch it.

Take a look at the screenshots my friend as they tell a different story. A story of a guy who is firmly planted on the ground with over 3 seconds to go and with a wide open Deshawn in the corner begging for the ball. At 3.4 seconds all he has to do is fake the shot and JR would have jumped at the shot to block it and he could send a quick pass over to Deshawn who would still have about 1.5-2 seconds to get a shot up, which is more than enough as we've seen with JJ and Jamal over the past few years.

[MrMeltdown]

Take a look at the screenshots my friend as they tell a different story. A story of a guy who is firmly planted on the ground with over 3 seconds to go and with a wide open Deshawn in the corner begging for the ball. At 3.4 seconds all he has to do is fake the shot and JR would have jumped at the shot to block it and he could send a quick pass over to Deshawn who would still have about 1.5-2 seconds to get a shot up, which is more than enough as we've seen with JJ and Jamal over the past few years.

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[TheNorthCydeRises]

That plays looks a whole lot worse with the screen shots, than it does when you watch it live.

When you watch it live, it would've taken a very high IQ play from Josh to get Deshawn the ball for the game winner. JR Smith was cheating halfway between Smith and Stevenson ( who was his man ). If Josh puts that ball on that floor and takes just one dribble to the hole, or does a jump pass to Deshawn, that would've been the type of high IQ play that would've given Deshawn the look he needed.

But considering the game situation, and the fact that there are a little less than 4 seconds when Josh got his hands on the ball, he probably made the decision to shoot it, no matter what. And I think 95% of the players in the league would've shot that ball in that situation.

On that play, I fault Josh more for not drifting toward the lane as Teague started his drive, so that he'd be in better position to receive a Teague pass or get an offensive rebound and put back . . . than I do for him taking that shot.

That was a "hero" shot. If he makes it, the shot becomes his signature moment as a pro ( outside of the put back slam to beat Orlando in 2010 or the Wade block to seal a game in 2007 ( I think ). He was wide open. He had made a 3 just 4 minutes ( of game time ) earlier in that quarter. He WANTED to win the game with that shot. That was his potential legendary moment . . a 3 in Madison Square Garden to beat the Knicks. I think everyone on the team outside of Zaza and maybe Petro takes that shot.

Those screen shots don't lie though. Deshawn was open and all Smith had to do is find a way to get it to him with 4 seconds left. But no way was he going to pass up making a game winner, just to make what would seem like the higher percentage basketball play.

Edited January 29, 2013 by northcyde

[benhillboy]

I think Josh had signed up to Indiana when Bob Knight was there. Josh would be in jail or dead dealing with Bob Knight.

True. I never heard that. Best for both parties he didn't go. Knight would definitely be in jail. Edited January 29, 2013 by benhillboy

[Admin]

True. I never heard that. Best for both parties he didn't go. Knight would definitely be in jail.

Yep he was committed to Indiana before deciding on the draft. Shocker that he decided to do what he wanted rather than listen to advice that he should have gone to college.

You guys crack me up with the Bobby Knight going to jail comment though.

[coachx]

No, I'm not wrong. The Knicks didn't get back defensively on that play, meaning the Hawks had numbers and an ample opportunity to put a strangle hold on the game with a score, maybe a three since Korver was already downcourt. Instead of giving the ball to Teague to push the ball down floor, Smith looks Teague off and proceeds to slow pace the ball to the corner of center court and commits an over and back, costing the Hawks another chance to grab control of the game. That error was without question a pivotal mistake.

For the 3rd time......I was never argueing about the over and back call.

Do you not know the difference in an illegal screen and an over the back call ? They were 2 different plays.

Edited January 29, 2013 by coachx

[Jody23]

For the 3rd time......I was never argueing about the over and back call.Do you not know the difference in an illegal screen and an over the back call ? They were 2 different plays.

Um, what was your point then? You responded to my post about the over and back saying I was wrong yet that's not what you were referring to?

[AHF]

Bob Knight was gone from Indiana in 2000. Josh was going into high school then - not college.