Top 5 quarterbacks... RIGHT NOW.

[Admin]

Ah ok so no matter what actual proof there is you will not admit that you were wrong. Sure those teams have a reputation for being good defenses but in those Super Bowl years they weren't good defenses, merely adequate. And I believe that in every one of those Super Bowls that Eli, Big Ben and Flacco all made big plays for their teams to win the games for them. Now I'm not saying Flacco deserves that monster contract at this point but to not consider him above Ryan after the 2nd best playoff performance by a QB in history is silly to me. I guarantee if you polled non Falcon and non Raven and non Giant and non Steelers fans that Ryan would end up last among the 4 QBs as to who is the best. You're just too close to be able to see or admit it. Now that Ryan has a pro bowler at every skill position on offense he might be able to win it all but we will see. I like Ryan a lot but I don't think he's a big game QB that can carry his team like those other guys.

[Ruckus]

It's impossible to be wrong in a subjective and hypothetical debate.

[Admin]

It's impossible to be wrong in a subjective and hypothetical debate.

It's impossible to be wrong about whether Ryan is a top 5 QB. It's quite possible to be wrong about those teams being good defenses in those years, which I'm sorry no matter what their reputation is, they weren't in those years. But we can agree to disagree.

[jy23]

Again what I'm saying is that I don't agree that Matt isn't IN THE CONVERSATION....the top 4 to me are set in stone and I think the next crop is just a toss up. U can make a case for a number of different qbs to be next in line which is why I said I think it's crazy to say he's not in the conversation

[Admin]

I understand what you're saying but I don't think Ryan is in that 2nd tier. I think he's in that 3rd tier of good but not great QBs who haven't won anything. Guys like Romo, Schaub, Stafford, Dalton, Rivers, etc. you take away his pro bowl WRs and HoF TE and replace them with league average talent at those positions and he's a far more average QB IMO.

[jy23]

Whoa...absolutely not. He didn't have Julio and tony when he first got here and was still balling. Every qb needs weapons but having them doesn't diminish who they are.

[Admin]

He's had Tony, Roddy and a guy who was a top RB in Turner for 4 years now. His rookie year was the only year he didn't have that trio and his last 2 years he's had one of the best in the league at WR in Julio. That's an absolutely deadly offense that any QB would succeed in.Even with them what has he done though? He's had 1 good playoff game and that's about it. I don't expect Falcons fans to he objective about him but he's not in the Eli and Big Ben tier 2 class and he's far from the Brady, Peyton, Rodgers elite class.

[jy23]

Big Ben had Jerome Bettis, Hines ward, santonio Holmes, Heath miller is a heck of a tight end, mike Wallace (who you all just gave 60 mill to), and a slew of playmakers on d like Troy and James Harrison.....Eli had a HELL of an offensive line with plaxico in his prime (easily top 5 wideouts at that time), he's had victor Cruz and Hakeem nicks who analyst were arguing was possibly the best tandem at wideout before the emergence of Julio, had tiki barber for a long time and Jeremy Shockey in his prime. And if I'm not mistaken didn't big Ben play like pure garbage in his first super bowl win? They won that game in spite of him not because of him. Peyton manning had Harrison, Wayne, stokely, Clark, and James....but is anybody taking credit away from him bc of that? Matt was a legit MVP candidate for most of this season, he hit a rough patch and of course the media jumped on the Peyton manning train until AP got to close to that record for them to ignore that. Is stafford, romo, or flacco MVP type guys? What team has the best record in the NFC since 08, and who is the qb of that team? The only qb with a better record is Brady but he's not even in the second tier...RIDICULOUS!!!!

Edited March 18, 2013 by jy23

[Admin]

Big Ben had Jerome Bettis, Hines ward, santonio Holmes, Heath miller is a heck of a tight end, mike Wallace (who you all just gave 60 mill to), and a slew of playmakers on d like Troy and James Harrison.....Eli had a HELL of an offensive line with plaxico in his prime (easily top 5 wideouts at that time), he's had victor Cruz and Hakeem nicks who analyst were arguing was possibly the best tandem at wideout before the emergence of Julio, had tiki barber for a long time and Jeremy Shockey in his prime. And if I'm not mistaken didn't big Ben play like pure garbage in his first super bowl win? They won that game in spite of him not because of him. Peyton manning had Harrison, Wayne, stokely, Clark, and James....but is anybody taking credit away from him bc of that? Matt was a legit MVP candidate for most of this season, he hit a rough patch and of course the media jumped on the Peyton manning train until AP got to close to that record for them to ignore that. Is stafford, romo, or flacco MVP type guys? What team has the best record in the NFC since 08, and who is the qb of that team? The only qb with a better record is Brady but he's not even in the second tier...RIDICULOUS!!!!

I never said those guys didn't have weapons as well, but they were able to use those weapons and win the Super Bowl. Ryan used his weapons to get 1 playoff win in his 5 year career and lost at home in the conference championship. I know you guys put that on the D but the fact is that the QB is the one who gets the lions share of the credit and the blame for a win or a loss. Now I don't recall the specifics of the 2nd half but I do know that Ryan didn't put any points on the board and that allowed the 49ers the chance to come back and win that game.

I believe that Eli (twice) took his team through as wildcard through the road and won 4 games to get the title and Flacco just got 4 tough wins, 2 of them being in Denver against the best team in AFC and the other against the best team of the last decade plus in New England.

You are entitled to your opinion but I promise you if you weren't biased you wouldn't feel this strongly about him as a potential top 5 QB. I have no reason to like nor dislike Ryan, I just don't see him as a guy that makes his team better or elevates his play or the teams play when it matters most. Seriously, talk to me when he's done more than win 1 more playoff game than this years incoming rookie QBs have.

[Admin]

Hey there ya go, McNabb puts Ryan at #7, 1 spot ahead of Big Ben. Not that his opinion matters much, but 7 isn't too far behind 5 and it's only 2 spots behind where he puts Flacco.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/0ap2000000137303/Where-does-Flacco-land-on-Top-10-QB-list

[Admin]

And I tell ya what, I will eat some crow here and say I was wrong about what the general NFL had to say about Ryan as SportSNation (ESPN) fans has him ranked 6th, one spot behind Flacco and slightly ahead of Eli and Big Ben. I think this is a case of what have you done for me lately as prior to this season Flacco wouldn't have been that high and before Ryan put up huge numbers on an almost unbeaten team and before Big Ben missed time and Eli and the Giants disappointed I think that Ryan would have been 7th just behind Eli and Big Ben.

[jy23]

But isn't that what we were arguing...right now. I admitted that I only put Ryan at 5 bc he's my qb and said that you could easily argue for so many other guys to be there at 5. The only problem I had was you saying he wasn't in the conversation. I understand the Super Bowl argument but again I say nobody has a better record since 08 except tom Brady and to say that the guy that was capable of putting together a record like that isn't in the conversation I think it was crazy. I still don't think flacco is a better qb than him but hey he had a hell of a post season run and he gets props for that.

[jy23]

Oh and I can give you play by play detail of the second half lol. But the game could've been won earlier in that last drive when Matt hit Douglas up the sideline while he was WIDE OPEN...I mean so open it was sickening...and Douglas was tackled by the turf monster and went down. If he would have scored then with under 2 mins left game would've been over. Ryan finished the drive spraining his shoulder in the last series and tried to gut it out but couldn't get it done.Every team we've lost to since he's been here has been the super bowl representative that year. First year it was Arizona...we should have won that game but Larry had that ridiculous run through the playoffs setting all kinds of records and they went to the super bowl almost bearing Pittsburgh. Next time it was green bay with Aaron Rodgers making our d look like a high school team, we couldn't stop a nose bleed that day. Next year it was the giants, and their d shut us down....to be honest I don't remember much from that game, I just remember being mad lol....but they went to green bay and did the exact same thing to the MVP Aaron Rodgers and the 15-1 packers the next week. Went on to the super bowl and shut down Tom Brady and the patriots....defense showed out in the playoffs. We will get it done this year tho, I guarantee it.

[coachx]

He's had Tony, Roddy and a guy who was a top RB in Turner for 4 years now. His rookie year was the only year he didn't have that trio and his last 2 years he's had one of the best in the league at WR in Julio. That's an absolutely deadly offense that any QB would succeed in.Even with them what has he done though? He's had 1 good playoff game and that's about it. I don't expect Falcons fans to he objective about him but he's not in the Eli and Big Ben tier 2 class and he's far from the Brady, Peyton, Rodgers elite class.

Matt Ryan has more 4th quarter comeback victories then any other QB in the NFL since he entered the league. As previously stated Ryan has the 2nd best winning pct in the NFL since he entered this league. Matt Ryan finished 1st in completion pct, 5th in passer rating, 5th in passing TDs, and 5th in passing yards last season.

This attitude of "What has he done" needs an attitude adjustment........or perhaps you just have not payed attention to the Falcons. That is unerstandable for a Miami fan who probably focuses on the AFC more then the NFL.

Sure Matt Ryan had offensive weapons last year. He also had a mediocre offensive line without any OL playing any where near a Pro Bowl level. Matt makes them look good b/c he can read defenses and get rid of the ball so quickly. It didn't matter who our RB was last year b/c our OL could get no push off the line of scrimmage which made ATL consistently throw short passes on 3rd &1. Depite the fact of having to throw so many short passes on 3rd and short..........Ryan finished 7th in YPA.

He also came 12 yards from a Super Bowl at 27 years of age. I would take Ryan ahead of both Eli and Big Ben at this stage in their careers. Both Big Ben and Eli had better defense on their side then any defense the Falcons have had. Same with Flacco and the Ravens Defenses he has had the last 5 years.

Edited March 18, 2013 by coachx

[jy23]

Matt Ryan has more 4th quarter comeback victories then any other QB in the NFL since he entered the league. As previously stated Ryan has the 2nd best winning pct in the NFL since he entered this league. Matt Ryan finished 1st in completion pct, 5th in passer rating, 5th in passing TDs, and 5th in passing yards last season. This attitude of "What has he done" needs an attitude adjustment........or perhaps you just have not payed attention to the Falcons. That is unerstandable for a Miami fan who probably focuses on the AFC more then the NFL. Sure Matt Ryan had offensive weapons last year. He also had a mediocre offensive line without any OL playing any where near a Pro Bowl level. Matt makes them look good b/c he can read defenses and get rid of the ball so quickly. It didn't matter who our RB was last year b/c our OL could get no push off the line of scrimmage which made ATL consistently throw short passes on 3rd &1. Depite the fact of having to throw so many short passes on 3rd and short..........Ryan finished 7th in YPA. He also came 12 yards from a Super Bowl at 27 years of age. I would take Ryan ahead of both Eli and Big Ben at this stage in their careers. Both Big Ben and Eli had better defense on their side then any defense the Falcons have had. Same with Flacco and the Ravens Defenses he has had the last 5 years.

Thank you

[AHF]

I think Dolfan has already reconsidered, "eaten crow" and conceded that Ryan is in the conversation but that he personally wouldn't rate Ryan above Eli and Ben. In short - I don't think you guys are actually arguing over anything at this point!

[jy23]

I think Dolfan has already reconsidered, "eaten crow" and conceded that Ryan is in the conversation but that he personally wouldn't rate Ryan above Eli and Ben. In short - I don't think you guys are actually arguing over anything at this point!

I agree...still a good debate tho lol

[Wurider05]

Flacco took his game to another level this season especially in the playoffs. Matt Ryan hasn't done that yet. I am not saying that he isn't a good player but look at his weapons. He has so many comebacks because of his bad decsion making that ges us in trouble. I put him in that 3rd tier of quarterbacks. Until we go to a superbowl, Chris Chandler is the best quarterback in Falcon's history.

[jy23]

Flacco took his game to another level this season especially in the playoffs. Matt Ryan hasn't done that yet. I am not saying that he isn't a good player but look at his weapons. He has so many comebacks because of his bad decsion making that ges us in trouble. I put him in that 3rd tier of quarterbacks. Until we go to a superbowl, Chris Chandler is the best quarterback in Falcon's history.

Fail

[Admin]

I think Dolfan has already reconsidered, "eaten crow" and conceded that Ryan is in the conversation but that he personally wouldn't rate Ryan above Eli and Ben. In short - I don't think you guys are actually arguing over anything at this point!

Yep that's pretty much it. Ryan and the Falcons had a huge year last year until the final game and that helped a lot of his perception around the league as being a top tier QB and I hadn't taken that into account which is why I didn't think he belonged in that discussion. But I admitted I was wrong about where general NFL fans would rank him.