Elitest is as Elitest does. From Duke to Atlanta.

[Admin]

No, the problem you're having Dol is that Duke Success doesn't translate to NBA success.

Duke has had some players that were loaded down with Collegiate accolades. However, those same players are mere serviceable players in the NBA.OF the almost 50 players who have been McDs players and the several that have gone on to the NBA, there are only a handful of them that we can call allstars. Pretty sad considering how highly touted they were at the college level. That's the problem with Duke. They make good players into system guys.

Look at AHF's post above. You will find quite the opposite to be true.

[Admin]

Pointing out that Coach K isn't remotely coaching up average talent and that he routinely enjoys big advantages in talent is just the right thing to do.

He's coaching up marginal NBA talent or role player types and he's got enough of them on his Duke teams that he can have sustained success and he mixes that in with the occasional transcendent talent like Kyrie Irving. I'm willing to bet if we look back on this topic in 5 years you're going to see how average the Duke players have continued to be in the NBA while teams like Kentucky are spitting out All-Star after All-Star.

[Diesel]

Look at AHF's post above. You will find quite the opposite to be true.

I take it you mean this:

All-Stars Since 1980

7 for UNC

7 for UCLA

6 for Duke

6 for Georgetown

4 for UK

4 for UConn

3 for Michigan

3 for Michigan State

3 for Florida

2 for Kansas.

2 for Syracuse

1 for Indiana

0 for Louisville

0 for USC

The problem here is the quality of the allstar.

When you talk about UNC, we're talking Jordan, Worthy, Perkins, Carter, Jamison, etc. We're talking all-stars with Multiple appearances. When you talk Duke, there's only one: Grant HIll. If there's another, I stand corrected. However, these guys who get in by the skin of their team vs. guys who have a spot with the name on it consistently. Duke doesn't put up consistent guys.

[KB21]

Using all star appearances as proof of something isn't very good proof. The All Star game is nothing more than a popularity contest.

[jy23]

Um can you name any school that puts out 4 year players that turn out to be studs???? Diesel your point is invalid bc the only reason you're even talking about that is bc duke has more 4 year players than any of the major programs....but guys who stay 4 years regardless of where they are generally aren't great NBA players

[Diesel]

Um can you name any school that puts out 4 year players that turn out to be studs???? Diesel your point is invalid bc the only reason you're even talking about that is bc duke has more 4 year players than any of the major programs....but guys who stay 4 years regardless of where they are generally aren't great NBA players

While he was there, Lute Olsen did it at Arizona. Utah used to do it. Florida did it. My point about Duke is that the quality of their guys who go pro (who were great in college) never measures up. Let's take some Examples. Danny Ferry himself. He was a four year player. He was a great player at Duke. He came into the league and he sucked. Christian Laettner.... He was on Dream Team 1. He came into the league and didn't live up to any of that promise. Bobby Hurley... come on man. Johnnie Dawkins. I thought he was the best thing smoking at Duke. IN the pros, he was a big let down. Battier? Who would have ever thought that Battier would not be a multiple time allstar?

I'm proud of Kyrie, Brand, Hill and guys who came out and handled business.

[kerrypack]

Diesel is 100% correct. UNC has been much more dominant in the NBA. Duke has had a few players who did well, but it pales in comparison to UNC. UNC had star players who went pro when it was appropriate.

Duke has been dominant in the aCC, though.

[kerrypack]

man, UCLA is a horrible program with incredible nba all stars

[AHF]

He's coaching up marginal NBA talent or role player types and he's got enough of them on his Duke teams that he can have sustained success and he mixes that in with the occasional transcendent talent like Kyrie Irving. I'm willing to bet if we look back on this topic in 5 years you're going to see how average the Duke players have continued to be in the NBA while teams like Kentucky are spitting out All-Star after All-Star.

He is coaching up elite college basketball talent. Right now Calipari is bringing in reems of talent we haven't seen since Wooden's days at UCLA, but Coach K's talent compares favorably to any other coach in college basketball history let alone his competitors today. There are no "teams like Kentucky" in recruiting today. They are unique. Duke is killing most of the other major programs in recruiting today - like Michigan State, North Carolina, etc.

Coach K is working from an advantage in terms of talent relative to the rest of college basketball. I also think it would be worthwhile to peak at how many McDonald's All-Americans he has landed. One commonality between nearly every NCAA champion over the last 30 years has been a McDonald's All-American on that team, usually as a great player but sometimes simply as a reflection of the high level of recruiting success that team is enjoying at that point in its program. Looking at the numbers, in fact, every champion since 1978 has had a McD other than the 2002 Maryland team. That is a 97.2% rate.

4 of the 35 "Greatest" McDs were recruited by Coach K to Duke.

http://www.mcdonaldsallamerican.com/aag/en/featuredalumni/35-greatest.html

Look historically, since 1977 Duke is #2 in total McDs (UNC is #1). Since 1990, Duke is tied at #1 (with UNC). Since 2000, Duke is #1 (UNC #2, with UK closing a large gap).

Just look at this year's roster. 6 McDonald's All-Americans are on Duke's roster. Gee, I hope Coach K can "coach them up" to make the tourney.

Duke has elite college basketball talent by any standard.

[Diesel]

He is coaching up elite college basketball talent. Right now Calipari is bringing in reems of talent we haven't seen since Wooden's days at UCLA, but Coach K's talent compares favorably to any other coach in college basketball history let alone his competitors today. There are no "teams like Kentucky" in recruiting today. They are unique. Duke is killing most of the other major programs in recruiting today - like Michigan State, North Carolina, etc.

Coach K is working from an advantage in terms of talent relative to the rest of college basketball. I also think it would be worthwhile to peak at how many McDonald's All-Americans he has landed. One commonality between nearly every NCAA champion over the last 30 years has been a McDonald's All-American on that team, usually as a great player but sometimes simply as a reflection of the high level of recruiting success that team is enjoying at that point in its program. Looking at the numbers, in fact, every champion since 1978 has had a McD other than the 2002 Maryland team. That is a 97.2% rate.

4 of the 35 "Greatest" McDs were recruited by Coach K to Duke.

http://www.mcdonaldsallamerican.com/aag/en/featuredalumni/35-greatest.html

Look historically, since 1977 Duke is #2 in total McDs (UNC is #1). Since 1990, Duke is tied at #1 (with UNC). Since 2000, Duke is #1 (UNC #2, with UK closing a large gap).

Just look at this year's roster. 6 McDonald's All-Americans are on Duke's roster. Gee, I hope Coach K can "coach them up" to make the tourney.

Duke has elite college basketball talent by any standard.

They indeed are talented coming in, but what will they be on the other side?

[Admin]

They are "thought" to be talented coming in but in reality they aren't all that talented. With a few exceptions they are mostly mediocre NBA quality role type players.We "thought" that Marvin, Childress and Shelden were talented but they weren't. Coaching didn't kill their talent.

[AHF]

They are "thought" to be talented coming in but in reality they aren't all that talented. With a few exceptions they are mostly mediocre NBA quality role type players.We "thought" that Marvin, Childress and Shelden were talented but they weren't. Coaching didn't kill their talent.

NBA quality role players are generally college stars just like college role players are usually HS stars. You should win big at the college level with a group of NBA quality role type players.

[Diesel]

NBA quality role players are generally college stars just like college role players are usually HS stars. You should win big at the college level with a group of NBA quality role type players.

The problem is the affinity for Duke to have Diaper Dandies who turn out to be NBA quality role players. Moreover, I just watched UNC vs. Duke on HBO, MJ made the statement that "we call them a good college team. They don't have the stuff in them to be better at the next level." I refuse to believe that Coach K seeks out guys who he knows will become role players. I think it's more a case where these guys start off good but they never get the training to learn how to turn it up. When you coach a guy to be a team guy all the time, it's very hard for him to adapt to being a guy who can take over a game.

[AHF]

The problem is the affinity for Duke to have Diaper Dandies who turn out to be NBA quality role players. Moreover, I just watched UNC vs. Duke on HBO, MJ made the statement that "we call them a good college team. They don't have the stuff in them to be better at the next level." I refuse to believe that Coach K seeks out guys who he knows will become role players. I think it's more a case where these guys start off good but they never get the training to learn how to turn it up. When you coach a guy to be a team guy all the time, it's very hard for him to adapt to being a guy who can take over a game.

This actually has been one of the problems with soccer development in the states compared to elsewhere in the world. We have not developed our goal scorers like other countries and have ended up with many more skilled goalies, defenders, and mid-fielders than strikers over the years.

A sample quote on this issue:

It’s a problem that starts with youth soccer, where we should be teaching kids to develop individual skills with the ball and beat players one-on-one instead of molding them together with a play-it-safe mentality.

Instead, we reprimand kids who use hot-dog moves in games and scold them for embarrassing a player on the other team for dribbling through his legs.

Will the problem be fixed in four years? Not likely. We haven’t had a true forward score for the U.S. in the World Cup since Brian McBride connected against Mexico in 2002.

I am not sure I buy it with the Duke players because there have been some very good ones at the pro level and because Duke has definitely featured some guys who have put up a ton of shots (JJ Reddick comes quickly to mind), but I can see the argument.

[jy23]

There is no argument, this subject holds no weight. So you mean to tell me that a guy like Kyle Singler had went to another program he would have learned to take over a game? How about Shellhead, Nolan smith, mike dunleavy, jj reddick, shavlick Randolph, the brothers plumlee, Greg paulus? Absolutely not to all of those guys, they just aren't those kind of players. Gerald Henderson and Wayne Ellington came out if high school together and Wayne was the better prospect coming out and went to UNC....had a decent college career, came out and did nothing in the pros. Gerald stuck around at duke and is a MUCH better pro than Wayne. Shane battier as a rookie avg 14 & 5, does that sound like a guy who was hurt by his college system? There just aren't very many stars in the NBA, as a hawk fan you should know this....most guys are role players and duke puts out more than anybody else. Coach K has nothing to do with how guys play in the pros, most players just aren't that great in the pros, fact of life. One of the best young stars in the game right now tho came from duke...and one of the better ones in this coming draft is coming from duke. Im sorry but trying to blame coach k for not making superstars out of every player that comes to him is just retarded

[Admin]

NBA quality role players are generally college stars just like college role players are usually HS stars. You should win big at the college level with a group of NBA quality role type players.

This is very true! That's why Syracuse are always pretty close to being able to win the championship because they churn out a roster full of almost NBA role players every year! It's damned frustrating!!

[Admin]

The problem is the affinity for Duke to have Diaper Dandies who turn out to be NBA quality role players. Moreover, I just watched UNC vs. Duke on HBO, MJ made the statement that "we call them a good college team. They don't have the stuff in them to be better at the next level." I refuse to believe that Coach K seeks out guys who he knows will become role players. I think it's more a case where these guys start off good but they never get the training to learn how to turn it up. When you coach a guy to be a team guy all the time, it's very hard for him to adapt to being a guy who can take over a game.

You honestly think the best college coach in the world and a guy who is notorious for having THE system in college basketball, isn't seeking out guys who will be role players and fit that system to a T? You're really reaching here D. I'm honestly at a loss for how you can really think that Coach K is keeping these guys from realizing their potential.

Anyone have a stat that shows how players are filtered from McD's' All American to College Star to NBA Star? I would be it's something like 100 to 50 to 1.

[jy23]

The games are completely different, bring a star in high school doesn't mean you'll be a star in college and being a star in college doesn't mean you'll be a star in the NBA. Just doeant work that way.

[Admin]

The games are completely different, bring a star in high school doesn't mean you'll be a star in college and being a star in college doesn't mean you'll be a star in the NBA. Just doeant work that way.

I know that. I'm just curious what the numbers on the funnel are.

[jy23]

I know that. I'm just curious what the numbers on the funnel are.

My bad dol, that wasn't directed at u. I really was talking to diesel